Speculation: Jets General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation 15-16 Part XIII

[Whileee]

I'd do

2 plus Roslovic for 3 plus one of Murray or Werenski plus Harntell in a second

How wouldnt anyone. I mean, i don't think the gap between Laine and Puljujarvi is a huge as people like to think it is... plus we get a much needed LHD...

It's a win win really.

Puljujarvi plus one of Murray or Werenksi helps this team more than Laine does on his own.

LHD is such a need it would be crazy to pass up something like that.

I posted #2 and Roslovic for #3 and Werenski on the main board. No need to take Hartnell.

 

[snake schneibler]

See the last paragraph in my post.

The premice was to keep 7 of Sciefs, Wheels, Little, Dano, Armia, Lowry, Burmy and Copp and not leave 4 of them exposed. I only included Dano/Armia in the proposal because they have more value to get a good LHD prospect. Burmy and Copp not really worried about, but would hate to lose one of Armia, Dano or Lowry for no assets

 

[snake schneibler]

nvm, I didnt seee where you said you wanted to trade Myers for an Exempted LHD, therefore what kind of LHD prospect can we get for Myers alone?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'm with Aavco, it's either Roslovic or Hartnell in the deal, not both.

Drop Hartnell then. The thing is Hartnell is not a negative value. He has 3x4.75 left on his contact. The actual cost is 3x4.166. He is a big LW who is not showing signs of being done yet. He has scored .69 ppg over the last 3 seasons. He is very much a + in the deal for us with the risk that he might not play up to his contract in the last year - when he only gets an actual 3 mil.

It is assumed CBJ would want him in because they are so badly cap limited, not because he isn't a good player. They are not giving up those assets without getting some cap relief somewhere so if we drop Hartnell we probably don't get the deal. There is no way we get #3 plus Werenski for #2 alone. That would be an incredible steal. It would rank right up there with Forsberg for Erat in the list of lopsided deals. We would have to erect a bronze statue of Chevy at Portage and Main.

 

[buggs]

Drop Hartnell then. The thing is Hartnell is not a negative value. He has 3x4.75 left on his contact. The actual cost is 3x4.166. He is a big LW who is not showing signs of being done yet. He has scored .69 ppg over the last 3 seasons. He is very much a + in the deal for us with the risk that he might not play up to his contract in the last year - when he only gets an actual 3 mil.

It is assumed CBJ would want him in because they are so badly cap limited, not because he isn't a good player. They are not giving up those assets without getting some cap relief somewhere so if we drop Hartnell we probably don't get the deal. There is no way we get #3 plus Werenski for #2 alone. That would be an incredible steal. It would rank right up there with Forsberg for Erat in the list of lopsided deals. We would have to erect a bronze statue of Chevy at Portage and Main.

Portage and Main is a bit much don't you think? I think it would be perfectly adequate to give him a seated statue right beside old Timothy Eaton in the foyer. Big old Chevy grin looking at Timothy? Yep, that's where it should go.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'd do

2 plus Roslovic for 3 plus one of Murray or Werenski plus Harntell in a second

How wouldnt anyone. I mean, i don't think the gap between Laine and Puljujarvi is a huge as people like to think it is... plus we get a much needed LHD...

It's a win win really.

Puljujarvi plus one of Murray or Werenksi helps this team more than Laine does on his own.

LHD is such a need it would be crazy to pass up something like that.

I wouldn't throw Murray into the conversation. He is more proven than Werenski but I think Werenski's ceiling is higher. Werenski is a LH shot Trouba+. Lets keep the aim high.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

You guys talking about Werenski going 3/4 as a 17 or 18 year old? Cause McAvoy's season was more impressive and he's not even a consensus top-10 guy..

Somewhat similar perhaps. Where do you get "more impressive" from? FWIW, Werenski was younger in his draft year.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Portage and Main is a bit much don't you think? I think it would be perfectly adequate to give him a seated statue right beside old Timothy Eaton in the foyer. Big old Chevy grin looking at Timothy? Yep, that's where it should go.

I don't know ....... That trade would be awfully big. I guess beside Timothy would be OK but I was thinking of something like the statue of Nelson on his column 100 ft high over Trafalgar square. Keep it simple and understated though. No horse.

 

[Grind]

Knowing regheds work probably better 5v5 primary scoring

 

[Rheged]

Somewhat similar perhaps. Where do you get "more impressive" from? FWIW, Werenski was younger in his draft year.

Well it basically comes down to how important you think the splits are between PP and 5on5 time, cause McAvoy has significantly better numbers at even strength and that's with him shooting 7% lower than Weresnki did.

Don't get me wrong I love Werenski, he's bigger, younger, and a better volume shooter but he's really made his name in the NCAA on the powerplay.

Edit:
Also lots of 2A's for Werenski.. Again, love him think he'll be a good NHLer but there are some staty red flags for sure.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Knowing regheds work probably better 5v5 primary scoring

Reasonable guess.

Werenski produced slightly more during the respective draft seasons. The conferences don't compare perfectly but I can't assess the difference. Werenski produced either slightly more at the WJC or infinitely more depending on how you choose to look at 2 vs 0. Werenski was younger.

Werenski was the consensus 8 OA pick in what was supposed to be an epic draft class that was also particularly strong at D. McAvoy is about 17 in a so-so draft that is considered weak at D. I recognize that is an appeal to authority but that sometimes is the best we have. Werenski at least lived up to expectations in D+1 if he did not exceed them. Werenski is a little bigger which doesn't make him better. Each player is what he is at the size that he is but added size might increase the probability of success at the next level.

I liked what I saw of Werenski in limited TV viewing. I may be slightly biased as I had wanted to trade up to 8 last year in order to draft Werenski.

It is possible that McAvoy is being underrated this year. Maybe we should be trading up to grab him.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Drop Hartnell then. The thing is Hartnell is not a negative value. He has 3x4.75 left on his contact. The actual cost is 3x4.166. He is a big LW who is not showing signs of being done yet. He has scored .69 ppg over the last 3 seasons. He is very much a + in the deal for us with the risk that he might not play up to his contract in the last year - when he only gets an actual 3 mil.

It is assumed CBJ would want him in because they are so badly cap limited, not because he isn't a good player. They are not giving up those assets without getting some cap relief somewhere so if we drop Hartnell we probably don't get the deal. There is no way we get #3 plus Werenski for #2 alone. That would be an incredible steal. It would rank right up there with Forsberg for Erat in the list of lopsided deals. We would have to erect a bronze statue of Chevy at Portage and Main.

So don't do the deal then. That's the price we should set. It's up to Columbus to meet it.

 

[Hunter368]

So don't do the deal then. That's the price we should set. It's up to Columbus to meet it.

Still not sure that Laine is the Jets first choice, lots of chat in media still questioning that fact.

I'm fine giving up 2oa + for 3oa & Werenski if Laine isn't our overwhelming first choice

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Well it basically comes down to how important you think the splits are between PP and 5on5 time, cause McAvoy has significantly better numbers at even strength and that's with him shooting 7% lower than Weresnki did.

Don't get me wrong I love Werenski, he's bigger, younger, and a better volume shooter but he's really made his name in the NCAA on the powerplay.

Edit:
Also lots of 2A's for Werenski.. Again, love him think he'll be a good NHLer but there are some staty red flags for sure.

So what Grind guessed. AFAIK Werenski has also been very good defensively. That may be more eye-test than numerical.

Dividing PP from ES scoring is interesting. It may or may not tell us something about a players' all around ability but in the end a goal is a goal, at least assuming avg. TOI in each situation. If some team draws a lot of penalties and their PP gets a lot more than normal PP scoring maybe you discount it a bit. Comparing player A to player B both at ES scoring per min does help compare apples to apples I guess. You could do the same with PP scoring.

Its not like the Jets couldn't use PP help but Laine certainly should do that.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

So don't do the deal then. That's the price we should set. It's up to Columbus to meet it.

That's where we will have to disagree. Hartnell is a plus, at least for now. I would do the deal as originally proposed and do my happy dance. I love the roster it gives us, much as I would hate to give up Laine.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Still not sure that Laine is the Jets first choice, lots of chat in media still questioning that fact.

I'm fine giving up 2oa + for 3oa & Werenski if Laine isn't our overwhelming first choice

I don't think it is about whether or not Laine is first choice. I don't doubt that. It is about the gap between him and Pool Party. It could be absolutely unanimous but the gap could still be small. I think that gap is much smaller than the gap between Roslovic and Werenski.

I can see where Hartnell can be both a plus for us and a cap consideration (I won't use the word dump) for CBJ. They need cap space badly. We do not. Hartnell is still a good player. For us he is the cherry on top. For them he is necessary to make it go.

 

[Hunter368]

I don't think it is about whether or not Laine is first choice. I don't doubt that. It is about the gap between him and Pool Party. It could be absolutely unanimous but the gap could still be small. I think that gap is much smaller than the gap between Roslovic and Werenski.

I can see where Hartnell can be both a plus for us and a cap consideration (I won't use the word dump) for CBJ. They need cap space badly. We do not. Hartnell is still a good player. For us he is the cherry on top. For them he is necessary to make it go.

100% agree. Only issue is who do we expose if we must protect Hartnell b/c of his NMC

 

[Aavco Cup]

Still not sure that Laine is the Jets first choice, lots of chat in media still questioning that fact.

I'm fine giving up 2oa + for 3oa & Werenski if Laine isn't our overwhelming first choice

Media chat is just noise.

Only two players in this draft class are playing in the World Cup of hockey. They will be picked 1-2

That noise is just Chevy doing his job properly IMO

 

[Aavco Cup]

That's where we will have to disagree. Hartnell is a plus, at least for now. I would do the deal as originally proposed and do my happy dance. I love the roster it gives us, much as I would hate to give up Laine.

He's a big negative IMO. And it only gets worse over time.

TBH why would we trade Laine unless the return is massive. This is not about making a fair deal.

 

[folix]

I swear if we dont draft Laine at 2 I will look like a mad monkey on steriods who just had a hot poker jammed up his wazzu and is looking for revenge.

The ONLY way I would ever accept the fact that we passed on Laine at 2 is if we draft him at 3 because we took pool party at 2 and traded away the farm to get the extra pick.

You NEVER EVER pass on a pure goal scorer like this.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

I swear if we dont draft Laine at 2 I will look like a mad monkey on steriods who just had a hot poker jammed up his wazzu and is looking for revenge.

The ONLY way I would ever accept the fact that we passed on Laine at 2 is if we draft him at 3 because we took pool party at 2 and traded away the farm to get the extra pick.

You NEVER EVER pass on a pure goal scorer like this.

Heh.

The ultimate Chevy troll would be to draft Puljujärvi at 2, then and only then to announce a trade for 3OA and draft Laine.

 

[Hunter368]

Media chat is just noise.

Only two players in this draft class are playing in the World Cup of hockey. They will be picked 1-2

That noise is just Chevy doing his job properly IMO

We shall see Friday, I'm not 100% convinced albeit I admit Laine is most likely pick.

 

[puck stoppa]

Wish we could get Brodin from minny. But too many hurdles so it won't work, ie money on back end, expansion. But Mac says lots of interest in their D's.

 

[roccerfeller]

I wasn't sold on Jets picking Laine either, but after hearing & watching all the Chevy interviews today, I am 99% sure they will pick Laine, or they will pick Matthews should the Leafs pick Laine.

I don't think there is a chance that they will be picking JP anymore.

 

[ComplexChris]

I wasn't sold on Jets picking Laine either, but after hearing & watching all the Chevy interviews today, I am 99% sure they will pick Laine, or they will pick Matthews should the Leafs pick Laine.

I don't think there is a chance that they will be picking JP anymore.

Just curious, how'd you come up with that conclusion? What did you notice? Hopefully we do pick PL!