Post-Game Talk: Jets do enough to lose 4-2

[Adam da bomb]

Pionk had back to back seasons pacing well over 40 points while being adequate defensively. Those types of dmen get paid. Chevy paid market rate for him. He's having a poor year this year but he earned that contract.

I do agree that with Pionk Schmidt is pretty redundant. Having said that the guy brought in to shore the team up defensively in Dillion has been a collosal failure. It's not just the one dimensional offensive guys that have let this team down this year.

What the team needs is more multidimensional dmen like Morrissey that do both well.

It was Dillion’s turnover at their blue line that led to their 1st goal and I’d say Schmidt’s weak d led to their second.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Totally agree with this post, and the first guy I'd be looking to get rid of is Pionk, especially considering he's making around $ 6 mil per year. I think he's a little above average defenseman, but not worth $ 6 mil, and neither is Schmidt, and these are both big mistakes by Chevy, who was in a bind for D- men, and panicked a bit, to fill some holes.

It’s interesting our reaction to the Trouba trade. First we were sad then for a year we celebrated. Now Trouba looks better than Pionk and Heinola.

 

[surixon]

It was Dillion’s turnover at their blue line that led to their 1st goal and I’d say Schmidt’s weak d led to their second.

Schmidt was fine this year when he had someone that could cover for him in Morrissey. He has been sub par since moved to a pairing with a player in Stanley who can't cover for his partner.

 

[gojetsgo]

It was Dillion’s turnover at their blue line that led to their 1st goal and I’d say Schmidt’s weak d led to their second.

wasn't on dillon, toninato gave him a horrible weak pass that was deflected and he got stuck flat footed at the line and no forward came back to cover

 

[Adam da bomb]

when ur most offensive players are in the negative regarding -/+ stats overall on the season......what do you think is gonna happen

When your one guy, KFC has 20 more points than most of the other guys in top 6 what do you think happens. The jets lack balanced scoring.

 

[Adam da bomb]

wasn't on dillon, toninato gave him a horrible weak pass that was deflected and he got stuck flat footed at the line and no forward came back to cover

Thought he should have shot it deep and instead he took a shot at the net which went into the defenders shin pad.

 

[surixon]

It’s interesting our reaction to the Trouba trade. First we were sad then for a year we celebrated. Now Trouba looks better than Pionk and Heinola.

I mean Trouba was a damn good dmen for us. I would have rather kept him as him and JoMo was a damn good multidimensional top pair that had all the boxes checked.

I am not at all surprised to see him get back to that top pairing level.

Pionk is what he is a second pairing offensive dmen.

Heinola has a lot of promise and needs to be given an opportunity to show what he can do after the trade deadline.

 

[gojetsgo]

Thought he should have shot it deep and instead he took a shot at the net which went into the defenders shin pad.

that's not what happened...

 

[Adam da bomb]

Schmidt was fine this year when he had someone that could cover for him in Morrissey. He has been sub par since moved to a pairing with a player in Stanley who can't cover for his partner.

But it’s not like he was spectacular enough offensively that you need a guy you need to insulate. Morrissey was able to carry him not a recipe for success.

 

[surixon]

But it’s not like he was spectacular enough offensively that you need a guy you need to insulate. Morrissey was able to carry him not a recipe for success.

No but imo our pairings were more balanced that way then they are now.

We had a good first and third pairing at that time. Now we have a good first pairing and dysfunctional second and third pairing.

I believe Schmidt was brought in to play with JoMo and they did work together well. DeMelo can carry players on the third pairing and was working well with tree there.

 

[gojetsgo]

When your one guy, KFC has 20 more points than most of the other guys in top 6 what do you think happens. The jets lack balanced scoring.

our top 6 scoring is fine, wheeler/scheifele would be closer had they not missed games, our bottom 6 scoring is what has hurt us

 

[Adam da bomb]

that's not what happened...

No just went back and watched it and looked like Dillion really didn’t do much with the puck there. he tries to shoot it down and it’s blocked right away.

 

[Adam da bomb]

our top 6 scoring is fine, wheeler/scheifele would be closer had they not missed games, our bottom 6 scoring is what has hurt us

Schief missed 6 games that does not explain a 19 pt spread. My bad a 20 pt spread.
schief 56 games 53 pts.
kfc. 62 games. 73 points.

with missing 6 games you’d think it would at least be 10 or less.

 

[gojetsgo]

No just went back and watched it and looked like Dillion really didn’t do much with the puck there. he tries to shoot it down and it’s blocked right away.

it was a terrible weak pass back to the line that put him in a horrible position, really not much he could have done.

 

[LowLefty]

Exactly. It's a matter of talent not size to me. It would be great if we had a Headmon or heck another big guy like Trouba who could play extremely well but we don't.

We have big, generally poor positional dme like Stanley that just run around in their end against good players.

Stan's a 3rd pairing guy that's in and our of the line up - he's not our biggest problem yet he's the guy everyone's talking about.
If you have guys on the blue line making 5 to 6 times his money, I'd probably point at them - especially if they struggle as much if not more, than Stan (defensively).

As for size vs talent, I agree with you -
My beef is that our small guys that are supposed to be so talented, are not. They put up a few points with their assists and all is forgiven despite the fact that they do not know how to plan the position they are named (defensemen) - and we blame it on systems.

With skill being equal, the big guys on the blue line will have an advantage over smaller defenders - they can at least use their size to stop guys in their tracks, squeeze players out, funnel them off into the corners, or move them from one place to another.
They also instill a little fear out there with freewheeling forwards roaming around in your zone - basically at will.
Why do you think Florida paid a 1st+ for Chiapet - he ain't no Ville but he makes you think twice about setting up in front or chasing down pucks in the corners.
Meanwhile, the same skill in a 180 lb dman, is going to struggle with the rotation and middle ice traffic - because they get run over.

When apposing teams coaches flip off to the media about how easy it is to play the Jets in their zone, it's time make it a little more unpleasant.

 

[Jetsetter]

Sorry the Jets deserved better tonight.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Stan's a 3rd pairing guy that's in and our of the line up - he's not our biggest problem yet he's the guy everyone's talking about.
If you have guys on the blue line making 5 to 6 times his money, I'd probably point at them - especially if they struggle as much if not more, than Stan (defensively).

As for size vs talent, I agree with you -
My beef is that our small guys that are supposed to be so talented, are not. They put up a few points with their assists and all is forgiven despite the fact that they do not know how to plan the position they are named (defensemen) - and we blame it on systems.

With skill being equal, the big guys on the blue line will have an advantage over smaller defenders - they can at least use their size to stop guys in their tracks, squeeze players out, funnel them off into the corners, or move them from one place to another.
They also instill a little fear out there with freewheeling forwards roaming around in your zone - basically at will.
Why do you think Florida paid a 1st+ for Chiapet - he ain't no Ville but he makes you think twice about setting up in front or chasing down pucks in the corners.
Meanwhile, the same skill in a 180 lb dman, is going to struggle with the rotation and middle ice traffic - because they get run over.

When apposing teams coaches flip off to the media about how easy it is to play the Jets in their zone, it's time make it a little more unpleasant.

Stan is a lightning rod around here because he is so big and an easy target. He has played decently for a 3rd pairing D some people would rather Heinola or Samberg which I agree with.
but I wonder if you did a cost analysis of Dillion is paid more than twice as much but isn’t 2x the player. Also every team has a weak 6th guy even top teams like Colorado have their weak 6th d just the nature of a cap.
our Bottom 6 got a goal. wheeler schief stastny did not.

 

[gojetsgo]

Schief missed 6 games that does not explain a 19 pt spread. My bad a 20 pt spread.
schief 56 games 53 pts.
kfc. 62 games. 73 points.

with missing 6 games you’d think it would at least be 10 or less.

in our best season blake wheeler outscored the next player by 21 points, we had only 2 ppg players that year wheeler 91 and scheifele had 60 points in 60 games, this year connor is outscoring scheifele by 20 but we have 3 near a ppg. our top 6 scoring is not a problem, it's having zero scoring from our 4th line and until recently having near zero from our 3rd as well...

 

[surixon]

Stan's a 3rd pairing guy that's in and our of the line up - he's not our biggest problem yet he's the guy everyone's talking about.
If you have guys on the blue line making 5 to 6 times his money, I'd probably point at them - especially if they struggle as much if not more, than Stan (defensively).

As for size vs talent, I agree with you -
My beef is that our small guys that are supposed to be so talented, are not. They put up a few points with their assists and all is forgiven despite the fact that they do not know how to plan the position they are named (defensemen) - and we blame it on systems.

With skill being equal, the big guys on the blue line will have an advantage over smaller defenders - they can at least use their size to stop guys in their tracks, squeeze players out, funnel them off into the corners, or move them from one place to another.
They also instill a little fear out there with freewheeling forwards roaming around in your zone - basically at will.
Why do you think Florida paid a 1st+ for Chiapet - he ain't no Ville but he makes you think twice about setting up in front or chasing down pucks in the corners.
Meanwhile, the same skill in a 180 lb dman, is going to struggle with the rotation and middle ice traffic - because they get run over.

When apposing teams coaches flip off to the media about how easy it is to play the Jets in their zone, it's time make it a little more unpleasant.

Stanley keeps getting talked about because he is being given a pretty big push by this org over other young dmen who accomplished much more then he did in lower levels. The reason for that is almost solely based on his size imo.

Sure when skill is equal then size might be the differentiating factor. But skill is very rarely equal and those big highly skilled dmen aren't readily available. So imo going after poor big dmen as we and many other teams do is a poor strategy.

If your options are poor big dmen or icing a highly skilled but smaller dcore the I choose the later. That strategy isn't hurting the Avalanche in the least.

 

[Adam da bomb]

in our best season blake wheeler outscored the next player by 21 points, we had only 2 ppg players that year wheeler 91 and scheifele had 60 points in 60 games, this year connor is outscoring scheifele by 20 but we have 3 near a ppg. our top 6 scoring is not a problem, it's having zero scoring from our 4th line and until recently having near zero from our 3rd as well...

You also have to factor in scoring is up throughout the league so I expect more from Schief the knife. comparison Marchand has 61 pasta has 60. So they are a 2 headed beast. Other teams know exactly what our pp is going to do.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Stanley keeps getting talked about because he is being given a pretty big push by this org over other young dmen who accomplished much more then he did in lower levels. The reason for that is almost solely based on his size imo.

Sure when skill is equal then size might be the differentiating factor. But skill is very rarely equal and those big highly skilled dmen aren't readily available. So imo going after poor big dmen as we and many other teams do is a poor strategy.

If your options are poor big dmen or icing a highly skilled but smaller dcore the I choose the later. That strategy isn't hurting the Avalanche in the least.

We don’t blame alot Of players for their poor usage yet we blame Stanley. also let’s see how as do in post season they are regular season champs.

 

[gojetsgo]

You also have to factor in scoring is up throughout the league so I expect more from Schief the knife. comparison Marchand has 61 pasta has 60. So they are a 2 headed beast. Other teams know exactly what our pp is going to do.

wtf are you even trying to say with this? had marchand not missed games this year he would be near connor in points and had scheif/wheeler not missed games they would be near pasta in points...

connor is 11th in the nhl in points, do you expect the rest of our top6 to be 12th/13th/14th/15th/16th?

 

[Adam da bomb]

wtf are you even trying to say with this? had marchand not missed games this year he would be near connor in points and had scheif/wheeler not missed games they would be near pasta in points...

connor is 11th in the nhl in points, do you expect the rest of our top6 to be 12th/13th/14th/15th/16th?

No I lost you. I am saying schief should be within 10 points of Connor. That I wonder what the range is with top teams whether they are within 10 pts of each other or there is a 20 pt difference. Kadri has 74 ratanen 73. So if you stop one line the other will score. But yes I think if Connor is 11th and mark was doing his job he should at least be 16th. Otherwise you have a one headed monster shut down kfc and jets lose. Kfc has a bad game jets lose.

How can you expect more goals from the 4th line when it’s made up of guys earning league minimum because they aren’t very good. You need your stars to step up or you lose. So if kfc isn’t scoring that game I expect the goals to come from schief not vesalinain who will be on waivers next week (not literally).

 

[LowLefty]

Stanley keeps getting talked about because he is being given a pretty big push by this org over other young dmen who accomplished much more then he did in lower levels. The reason for that is almost solely based on his size imo.

Sure when skill is equal then size might be the differentiating factor. But skill is very rarely equal and those big highly skilled dmen aren't readily available. So imo going after poor big dmen as we and many other teams do is a poor strategy.

If your options are poor big dmen or icing a highly skilled but smaller dcore the I choose the later. That strategy isn't hurting the Avalanche in the least.

Stan is in there because of his size - and they are going to give him more time before they throw in the towel - because we need more size on the blue line.
Ville has proven nothing at the NHL level - in fact, he's looked over whelmed at times and totally out of his element with the bigger, faster competition he has to deal with at this level.

We excuse that short coming because he does so well with lesser competition - Petan and Niku were also expected to be stars based on their pre-NHL success.

And for the last time, I am not suggesting we ice a blue line of poor big dmen - you're discussing extremes (all big and bad vs all highly skilled and small) to make a point and it's over the top hyperbole. We have neither and I'm not suggesting we would.

We have one who is the youngest dman on the team and is being allowed more time because the org would like to have some size back there.
It's not like we have a star studded dcore that Stan is f**king up - and it's not like Ville is going to add anything at this point other than less defense than we are currently dealing with.

 

[Ggg99]

I don't think he's necessarily saying that the smaller defensemen are to blame in that quote. It's more an indictment of the Jets defensemen as a whole in my opinion.

Relatedly, how the f*** does Charlie Huddy still have a job?

Winning and jet fans are not top of priority list….