Jets Announce Leadership Group Restructuring - Wheeler removed as Captain. No Captain for 22-23

[DRW204]

This is part of the ‘romanticizing’ - enstrom was a good D but by 2017-18 he was not… he played half the season and was a turnover machine in the playoffs

If Schmidt and Dillon can play in a system, we have a much deeper D core than we did in 2018

yeah fans romanticizing of the most successful Jets season. you don't say. would you like fans to romanticize about poor or underwhelming seasons or something? this team has 15 PO Ws in their 11-year history, and 9 came in that year. gee i wonder why that season gets held in high regard.

the depth of that year's defense got tested heavily: we had injuries to buff, enstrom, trouba during parts of that year. yet, we still were one of the top defensive teams in the nhl. offensively the D group was better than our current group too id say.

imagine if we had injuries to 3 of our top-4D, including our best ones in morrissey & demelo. how do we fair .

and ok sure if schmidt/dillon can play to some otherworldly system that folks on here like to preach about perhaps we'll attain results of being a suffocating defensive team (iirc: we were top 5 in least xGA/60 allowed and high-danger chances, while having a top-10 pk - i think this was mostly to Helle though, not b/c of defense)

 

[CorgisPer60]

I don't think a projected bottom 5 roster sells out the home opener either. I think this team is far more likely to try to augment and improve what's here on a year by year basis than just blow it up.

I never said a projected bottom five roster, though. I said they only once picked in the top of the draft, by sheer mercy of the draft lottery. Cheveldayoff and the Jets inherited an ok but mediocre team from Atlanta. They didn't have to build anything. They augmented year over year with savvy picks (bolsered by a monster 2015). So what we're hoping for is treading water until the tide comes in to wash you to shore. I'd rather just be a better swimmer.

What sells a team to its fanbase? Either the future or the now. If the now is untenable, you look to the future. If neither look promising, then you tune out. That's the line that the Jets are trying to walk. Look at what the Rangers did. They actually issued a statement announcing their plans for a rebuild. Chicago is going a hard reset mode right now. That's bold, and doesn't work as often as one would hope (stares at Buffalo).

This is the last year for this core. They are going to lose players over the course of the season or next off-season. If they don't put together a monster season, and fall outside the playoffs again, Cheveldayoff may finally have to start making tough decisions that he's so far avoided doing in his entire tenure.

 

[surixon]

yeah fans romanticizing of the most successful Jets season. you don't say. would you like fans to romanticize about poor or underwhelming seasons or something? this team has 15 PO Ws in their 11-year history, and 9 came in that year. gee i wonder why that season gets held in high regard.

the depth of that year's defense got tested heavily: we had injuries to buff, enstrom, trouba during parts of that year. yet, we still were one of the top defensive teams in the nhl. offensively the D group was better than our current group too id say.

imagine if we had injuries to 3 of our top-4D, including our best ones in morrissey & demelo. how do we fair .

The difference was having an elite offensive driver who was built like a tank in Buff. We don't have a Buff any longer but I'd say outside of that our dcore matches up well with the 17-18 group. So I'd say ours is an average group whereas that team was above average.

Bottom 6 depth isn't comparable though, that team had a stacked bottom 6.

 

[KingBogo]

I never said a projected bottom five roster, though. I said they only once picked in the top of the draft, by sheer mercy of the draft lottery. Cheveldayoff and the Jets inherited an ok but mediocre team from Atlanta. They didn't have to build anything. They augmented year over year with savvy picks (bolsered by a monster 2015). So what we're hoping for is treading water until the tide comes in to wash you to shore. I'd rather just be a better swimmer.

What sells a team to its fanbase? Either the future or the now. If the now is untenable, you look to the future. If neither look promising, then you tune out. That's the line that the Jets are trying to walk. Look at what the Rangers did. They actually issued a statement announcing their plans for a rebuild. Chicago is going a hard reset mode right now. That's bold, and doesn't work as often as one would hope (stares at Buffalo).

This is the last year for this core. They are going to lose players over the course of the season or next off-season. If they don't put together a monster season, and fall outside the playoffs again, Cheveldayoff may finally have to start making tough decisions that he's so far avoided doing in his entire tenure.

Those cities got in the range of a 10,000,000 population and attract tourists with a huge corporate base. Not 800,000 population on the edge of the tundra with nothing close to the same corporate support. Fans might support a rebuild but they aren’t going to dish out $500+ a night for a family of 4 to go to a Tuesday night game in January when it is -30. A full rebuild will cost TNSE 10’s of millions and drive its ST base into the ground.

 

[DRW204]

The difference was having an elite offensive driver who was built like a tank in Buff. We don't have a Buff any longer but I'd say outside of that our dcore matches up well with the 17-18 group. So I'd say ours is an average group whereas that team was above average.

Bottom 6 depth isn't comparable though, that team had a stacked bottom 6.

it's not just offense you miss from buff (and enstrom)

those 2 together were great defensively too (or defending less). enstrom would break up plays get the puck out fast and buff push it up ice.

and then you had morrissey-trouba.... i think morrissey was better back then, i do think Demelo is better than trouba defensively, but in all-around play id give trouba the slight edge (i think his offense got underrated here too during that time frame).

think id take that top-4 over what we have now quite easily. and that depth got tested when buff, enstrom and trouba were both out during the year with injuries. our defense has been much healthier by comparison.

but it's really hard to project until we see what the pairings look like and how they fair until some practices or gp with a new staff. 17-18 is a huge feat though.

id say our top-6 as a net overall was better back then too, a bit closer than the gap w/ the bottom-6s though. and helle had a 924.

this is eerily similar to a convo i had pre-season last year. that 17-18 team was a juggernaut & we haven't had on-ice results or personnel depth close to it in our history. unfortunately complete outlier.

 

[CorgisPer60]

"Those cities got in the range of a 10,000,000 population and attract tourists with a huge corporate base. Not 800,000 population on the edge of the tundra with nothing close to the same corporate support. Fans might support a rebuild but they aren’t going to dish out $500+ a night for a family of 4 to go to a Tuesday night game in January when it is -30. A full rebuild will cost TNSE 10’s of millions and drive its ST base into the ground."

God, I don't f***ing care about how big other markets are. Yes, they can support the type of scorched earth rebuild that some teams need to go through. I don't care. I'm tired of the excuse. Colorado just won the Stanley Cup with their core. How big is their metro area? They seem to support the Avalanche and the Denver Broncos with equal aplomb.

 

[Jack7222]

I remember that Enstrom Buff pairing had the best XGA stat in the entire league in 2017/2018. A pairing with Buff on it. And we called it our 'second pairing' heh

 

[DRW204]

I remember that Enstrom Buff pairing had the best XGA stat in the entire league in 2017/2018. A pairing with Buff on it. And we called it our 'second pairing' heh

yup, of d-pairs of min 500 minutes together: the team performed the best in xGA/60 or xGF% with those 2 on the ice. notably with enstrom who apparently sucks, always turns the puck over

 

[FonRiesen]

*quits on team.

And suddenly we'd have a tonne of cap space...

 

[tbcwpg]

I never said a projected bottom five roster, though. I said they only once picked in the top of the draft, by sheer mercy of the draft lottery. Cheveldayoff and the Jets inherited an ok but mediocre team from Atlanta. They didn't have to build anything. They augmented year over year with savvy picks (bolsered by a monster 2015). So what we're hoping for is treading water until the tide comes in to wash you to shore. I'd rather just be a better swimmer.

What sells a team to its fanbase? Either the future or the now. If the now is untenable, you look to the future. If neither look promising, then you tune out. That's the line that the Jets are trying to walk. Look at what the Rangers did. They actually issued a statement announcing their plans for a rebuild. Chicago is going a hard reset mode right now. That's bold, and doesn't work as often as one would hope (stares at Buffalo).

This is the last year for this core. They are going to lose players over the course of the season or next off-season. If they don't put together a monster season, and fall outside the playoffs again, Cheveldayoff may finally have to start making tough decisions that he's so far avoided doing in his entire tenure.

No you didn't, but bottoming out for draft purposes is a bottom 5 roster.

I think people overestimate what "selling the future" means. It means lots of nights where the team loses, looks outmatched, etc etc. There might be the initial hype of seeing a top draft pick from the summer play, but when it comes to December onward when the team is in 12th place and winning only a third of their games and not looking competitive in their losses, fans don't pay to see that either.

The team is definitely going to be forced into changes, I agree, I'm just not convinced it's going to be in the reset realm like the Rangers or Blackhawks. The Jets don't have the luxury of a Rangers style rebuild anyway, and New York is a different town than Winnipeg. I don't see a lot of fans paying NHL prices to watch the Carolina Hurricanes come in and beat the Jets 4-1 on a Tuesday in January. The fans here aren't dumb, they don't need a letter telling them the team is rebuilding.

 

[cbcwpg]

Those cities got in the range of a 10,000,000 population and attract tourists with a huge corporate base. Not 800,000 population on the edge of the tundra with nothing close to the same corporate support. Fans might support a rebuild but they aren’t going to dish out $500+ a night for a family of 4 to go to a Tuesday night game in January when it is -30. A full rebuild will cost TNSE 10’s of millions and drive its ST base into the ground.

Then sell the team and move it....

Within the next 2 seasons the Jets could end up having Wheeler, Scheifele, PLD, Dillion, DeMelo, and (most importantly because we have ZERO replacement for him) ... Helly all leaving this club. And depending upon how Chevy handles this, the return or lack thereof for these potential losses could result in a full on rebuild no matter how much the Jets don't want to do it.

 

[KingBogo]

Then sell the team and move it....

Within the next 2 seasons the Jets could end up having Wheeler, Scheifele, PLD, Dillion, DeMelo, and (most importantly because we have ZERO replacement for him) ... Helly all leaving this club. And depending upon how Chevy handles this, the return or lack thereof for these potential losses could result in a full on rebuild no matter how much the Jets don't want to do it.

Chipman might one day but I think he will try to make it work in Winnipeg first. My guess is other than Wheeler who already got his UFA deal the Jets will make every effort to re-sign as many of there own players as they can.

 

[surixon]

Honestly if Ottawa with their cheap owner can last half a decade of a rebuild with a half empty building then so can we. This constant fear of the team moving is getting tiresome. There are significantly more revenue streams now vs. When we got the team back. There is also revenue sharing and TNSE has significantly diversified their business portfolio with significant real-estate and leasing income.

 

[CorgisPer60]

Then sell the team and move it....

Within the next 2 seasons the Jets could end up having Wheeler, Scheifele, PLD, Dillion, DeMelo, and (most importantly because we have ZERO replacement for him) ... Helly all leaving this club. And depending upon how Chevy handles this, the return or lack thereof for these potential losses could result in a full on rebuild no matter how much the Jets don't want to do it.

Exactly. There's going to come a point _really_ soon where you're going to look at these players - this irreplaceable core you've built around for 7 years - and watch the back of them as they leave. Do you stump up the cash to retain them? Is that the best move? Do they even want to? These guys want to win. They were part of the solution, but now remain as part of the problem. You're losing Wheeler in 2024. That's fine. Scheifele can still get another contract in 2024. He's young enough. He'll test UFA. Helle will stay if we're competitive, but his contract's done in 2024. Dubois's camp openly courted other teams, and is eyeing free agency in 2024. That's 2 top 6 centres, a middle-six winger, and a former Vezina winning #1 goaltender. That's not insignificant. They have to make hay this season, because this is the last chance for these guys in this market.

 

[BoneDocUK]

Honestly if Ottawa with their cheap owner can last half a decade of a rebuild with a half empty building then so can we. This constant fear of the team moving is getting tiresome. There are significantly more revenue streams now vs. When we got the team back. There is also revenue sharing and TNSE has significantly diversified their business portfolio with significant real-estate and leasing income.

I tend to agree.

Either Winnipeg is a sustainable location for an NHL team, or it isn't. If it isn't, stop making excuses and pull up stakes -- and get ready to face the music. I don't think that the fanbase can be strung along indefinitely on soft resets and player departures and a team perennially in the mushy middle. Harder resets at least offer hope; soft resets and season after season of mediocrity kills hope.

If Chipman see WPG as a longterm home for the Jets, then the org needs to retain their key players and develop or bring in reasonable replacements for those who choose to leave as UFAs or force their way out earlier. They need to optimize every part of the org and squeeze value wherever they can -- even at a cost to the Jets "family." They need to be proactive and not reactive. They can't be taken by surprise that a coach plans to quit or a player wants out.

They need to sometimes make moves that cut against the organizational grain -- like retaining salary on a former team captain if it means a deal happens, and cutting bait with a player they're "invested in," should there be better options available on the farm.

Half-assery may make the world go round (hello, Sherry Bobbins!), but it doesn't tend to make for great sports teams. IMO.

 

[WolfHouse]

yeah fans romanticizing of the most successful Jets season. you don't say. would you like fans to romanticize about poor or underwhelming seasons or something? this team has 15 PO Ws in their 11-year history, and 9 came in that year. gee i wonder why that season gets held in high regard.

the depth of that year's defense got tested heavily: we had injuries to buff, enstrom, trouba during parts of that year. yet, we still were one of the top defensive teams in the nhl. offensively the D group was better than our current group too id say.

imagine if we had injuries to 3 of our top-4D, including our best ones in morrissey & demelo. how do we fair .

and ok sure if schmidt/dillon can play to some otherworldly system that folks on here like to preach about perhaps we'll attain results of being a suffocating defensive team (iirc: we were top 5 in least xGA/60 allowed and high-danger chances, while having a top-10 pk - i think this was mostly to Helle though, not b/c of defense)

Whoa nice straw dog - you will also remember that during those injuries Maurice simplified his system and we did better with less talent… then he went back to m2m chaos

My point is that I look at this team on paper and it’s pretty good - we have five nhl top 4D and three solid prospects

Forward group relies on perfetti stepping up - but gagner and apples are as good as mattyP

 

[DRW204]

Whoa nice straw dog - you will also remember that during those injuries Maurice simplified his system and we did better with less talent… then he went back to m2m chaos

My point is that I look at this team on paper and it’s pretty good - we have five nhl top 4D and three solid prospects

Forward group relies on perfetti stepping up - but gagner and apples are as good as mattyP

posters should really learn wtf strawman, or straw dog - whatever the f*** that is - means.

ok so show this supposed significant system change then and the difference of defensive results with, and without it. it has to be damn elite since the Jets were one of the best teams in limiting quality chances against over 82 gp, & the alternative was garbage m2m chaos (btw i've seen CAR - a team that is often revered around here - noted as playing m2m system). our 2 best top4D pairs in xGF% that season was enstrom-buff and morrissey-trouba so which system was that with?

you're the one that said i think fans romanticize about the season to much. perhaps you are using the term romanticize incorrectly as well, i dont know. they were the 2nd best team in the nhl in 17-18 & the 12th best team since that season. & given the Jets history & actual season's results (regardless of whatever system they used) there's a reason why we/they romanticize about it. the personnel was also much better w/ some key players in the top-6 giving their best years to-date, higher end Dmen personnel (id take Buff, Trouba and 17-18 Morrissey over any dman on the roster today), and overall better bottom-6 personnel. our goalie also posted a 924 on top of that - his best to-date.

perreault put up 17 goals & 0.56 ppg in 14 mins a night, while being one of our top fwds in creating quality chances & limiting chances against. it'd be a major boon if either gagner and appleton put that up. when's the last time they scored at that rate?

this fwd group relies on much more than perfetti stepping up. perfetti will be fine playing in the top-6. who in the bottom-6 is scoring roughly at the same paces like lowry of that year, copp, armia, perreault, or roslovic in his limited games for instance (14 pts in 30 gp). we had 1 bottom 6er hit 20 pts last year. heck even tanev 18 pts in 60 gp was a far more productive pace than anything we iced down there. & then consider the job of top-6 line matching that CLT did, while often handedly out-shooting/chancing/scoring the opposition to boot.

 

[blues10]

"Those cities got in the range of a 10,000,000 population and attract tourists with a huge corporate base. Not 800,000 population on the edge of the tundra with nothing close to the same corporate support. Fans might support a rebuild but they aren’t going to dish out $500+ a night for a family of 4 to go to a Tuesday night game in January when it is -30. A full rebuild will cost TNSE 10’s of millions and drive its ST base into the ground."

God, I don't f***ing care about how big other markets are. Yes, they can support the type of scorched earth rebuild that some teams need to go through. I don't care. I'm tired of the excuse. Colorado just won the Stanley Cup with their core. How big is their metro area? They seem to support the Avalanche and the Denver Broncos with equal aplomb.

Denver/ Aurora and surrounding counties is about 3.6 million which is similar to Minneapolis/St.Paul. One side of my family has lived in Denver since the 1960s. Denver is all about the Broncos. The Avs drew flies when they were bottoming out. Just this weekend my Dad was talking about going to an Avs v Jets game a few years back in Denver and there were only 2 people sitting in his entire row himself and his buddy both wearing Jets jerseys.

The Broncos on the other hand....Season tickets are still being passed down in people's wills despite their poor play of the last few seasons.

There may be an unintentional bottom out here in 2 years time but I cannot see a purposeful one. Within a few months we should have a good idea of the leadership of this hockey club in the near future.

 

[Howard Chuck]

The difference was having an elite offensive driver who was built like a tank in Buff. We don't have a Buff any longer but I'd say outside of that our dcore matches up well with the 17-18 group. So I'd say ours is an average group whereas that team was above average.

Bottom 6 depth isn't comparable though, that team had a stacked bottom 6.

We HAVE to see what we have in Samberg and Heinola this season. You just never know.

 

[Jets 31]

Winning the Stanley Cup isn't easy, just ask Toronto. As long as this team works it's ass's off game in and game out the fans will support it. There were too many games in the last couple of seasons under Maurice where too many players looked like they didn't care enough to work hard. I'm really hoping we get back to the pack of wolves play we had under Bowness and a new coaching staff.

 

[cbcwpg]

From Adam Proteau ( The Hockey News )

The Winnipeg Jets shocked the NHL recently with the announcement veteran winger and locker room leader Blake Wheeler was stripped of his captaincy of the team. While some people make a good argument this is an indication the franchise has lost its way, at the very least, it should be clear Wheeler’s days in Winnipeg are numbered.

The 36-year-old Wheeler has spent the grand majority of his NHL career with the Jets/Atlanta Thrashers organization, but he has yet to lead them to Stanley Cup playoff glory. He’s under contract for this coming season and the season following at a cap hit of $8.25 million, a number that will limit the number of suitors for his services. But he’s a proven commodity, a big-bodied, 20-goal scorer who can handle the pressures of playing in a hockey-mad market.

In any case, moving him would be a clear indication of a new era in Winnipeg, something many observers believe is now overdue. If the Jets struggle to start the year, longtime GM Kevin Cheveldayoff may not be around to be the person who gets to trade Wheeler, but it now seems more likely than not Wheeler won't be in Winnipeg for the remainder of his contract. Let the bidding on him begin.

***

Obviously this Adam Proteau has shown he doesn't have a clue.

"Wheeler's days are numbered?" Yeah, if he doesn't get hurt that number will be ~160 games as he plays out his contract.

"Kevin Cheveldayoff may not be around to be the person who gets to trade Wheeler" Sure. Chevy just signed a 3 year extension to work for a team that has shown they keep people around long after their best before date. The Jets could implode this season and Chevy is going no where.

"Let the bidding on him begin".... the sound of crickets everyone hears is that bidding.

 

[Jets 31]

From Adam Proteau ( The Hockey News )

The Winnipeg Jets shocked the NHL recently with the announcement veteran winger and locker room leader Blake Wheeler was stripped of his captaincy of the team. While some people make a good argument this is an indication the franchise has lost its way, at the very least, it should be clear Wheeler’s days in Winnipeg are numbered.

The 36-year-old Wheeler has spent the grand majority of his NHL career with the Jets/Atlanta Thrashers organization, but he has yet to lead them to Stanley Cup playoff glory. He’s under contract for this coming season and the season following at a cap hit of $8.25 million, a number that will limit the number of suitors for his services. But he’s a proven commodity, a big-bodied, 20-goal scorer who can handle the pressures of playing in a hockey-mad market.

In any case, moving him would be a clear indication of a new era in Winnipeg, something many observers believe is now overdue. If the Jets struggle to start the year, longtime GM Kevin Cheveldayoff may not be around to be the person who gets to trade Wheeler, but it now seems more likely than not Wheeler won't be in Winnipeg for the remainder of his contract. Let the bidding on him begin.

***

Obviously this Adam Proteau has shown he doesn't have a clue.

"Wheeler's days are numbered?" Yeah, if he doesn't get hurt that number will be ~160 games as he plays out his contract.

"Kevin Cheveldayoff may not be around to be the person who gets to trade Wheeler" Sure. Chevy just signed a 3 year extension to work for a team that has shown they keep people around long after their best before date. The Jets could implode this season and Chevy is going no where.

"Let the bidding on him begin".... the sound of crickets everyone hears is that bidding.

Ya sounds like Adam is throwing shit against the wall just to see if it sticks.

 

[Jimmyjets]

The way forward is pretty clear to me as we've already begun amassing the next core. We play out the year this year going for it and then next offseason see if we still want any of Scheif, PLD, Helle, Dillon, Demelo or Wheeler and see if they guys we want are interested in extending. If not trade them all next offseason grabbing young or near ready NHL talent as the primary returns.

Then the turnaround should be pretty quick as we'll still have KFC, Ehlers and Perfetti as top 6 forwards with Lambert, Lucius, McRoarty, Chib, Rash, Zhilin, etc. plus trade returns coming.

On the back end you still have JMo, Pionk and Schmidt with Stanley, Samberg, Heinola, Kovacevic, Chisholm, Kuzmin, etc. plus trade returns

If Helle doesn't want to stay goaltending will be the thing I'm least sure of but we'll see what Salmanin does this year. Dom will still be a few years out. I still think a trade with Buffalo may make sense if we want to get a young tender as with Luukonen, Levi and Portillo something will eventually have to give and with both Levi and Portillo going the college route, for example if Levi signs, Portillo could just go back 1 more year to be a UFA or or they could trade him to us and he may be willing to sign if he sees a clearer path to playing time and the NHL starters net.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

I'll say right now and 100 percent certain they were shopping Blake and probably still are but he's a 60 point player still so unless the room is fractured( I don't think it really is as much as some think) you can't give Blake away for nothing. You have to replace his 60 points, they shopped him and got no takers. Retaining on Blake is easier at the deadline tho since only 1 year left and not 2. If Blake was a huge issue and no takers, they would buy him out. They bought out Mark Stuart a few years back. He was a leader of sorts here too. No takers and not wanting to retain for 2 years. I think Blake's time here is up maybe sooner than I think (trade deadline) but if he was this problem that some thinks he is, he'd be gone already.

Scheif or Dubois(not both) and Helle probably sign extensions.
Dubois probably or Scheif gets traded. (Not both) Maybe NYR for their 2 1sts plus.

What's done is done. It ain't my money. Ok maybe a 1000 per year maybe less but...

You gotta see what you really got here under bowness first. Maybe the issue in the room was actually coaching

 

[drumzan]

I'll say right now and 100 percent certain they were shopping Blake and probably still are but he's a 60 point player still so unless the room is fractured( I don't think it really is as much as some think) you can't give Blake away for nothing. You have to replace his 60 points, they shopped him and got no takers. Retaining on Blake is easier at the deadline tho since only 1 year left and not 2. If Blake was a huge issue and no takers, they would buy him out. They bought out Mark Stuart a few years back. He was a leader of sorts here too. No takers and not wanting to retain for 2 years. I think Blake's time here is up maybe sooner than I think (trade deadline) but if he was this problem that some thinks he is, he'd be gone already.

Scheif or Dubois(not both) and Helle probably sign extensions.
Dubois probably or Scheif gets traded. (Not both) Maybe NYR for their 2 1sts plus.

What's done is done. It ain't my money. Ok maybe a 1000 per year maybe less but...

You gotta see what you really got here under bowness first. Maybe the issue in the room was actually coaching

Mark Stuart’s contract was much smaller than Wheeler’s. And, more importantly, it was clear Mark Stuart was no longer an NHL caliber player. Wheeler definitely is still a very capable middle-6 NHL’er. To me, Stuart and Wheeler scenarios are apples to oranges.

TNSE never bought out Jokinen or Pavelec… those are bigger contracts (AAV wise) than Stuart. And they gave away Mason for Armia and two draft picks. This shows more history, to me, that TNSE will rarely if ever buy out contracts.