To be fair, with the Mason contract we needed the capspace to sign Laine and KFC so a buyout wasn't actually an option there and Armia's contract also would have been an issue. I just think it's important to recognize that buying people out has a financial cost but also a capspace penalty and when you are operating right up against the cap like we were, every million counts.
Jets Announce Leadership Group Restructuring - Wheeler removed as Captain. No Captain for 22-23
- Thread starter DRW204
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To be fair, with the Mason contract we needed the capspace to sign Laine and KFC so a buyout wasn't actually an option there and Armia's contract also would have been an issue. I just think it's important to recognize that buying people out has a financial cost but also a capspace penalty and when you are operating right up against the cap like we were, every million counts.
- Jun 10, 2014
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I wouldn't say that I am optimistic yet - but I am intrigued by the possibilities and I am getting excited for the season to get underway.
Pretty sure we are still very much an underdog. Nothing like being the underdog to make victory sweeter.
I never heard anything about him asking to be traded.
What I heard was that he agreed to cooperate with facilitating a trade. There is still quite a gap between those 2 things.
- Jun 10, 2014
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I agree that Wheeler should have been moved. I'm assuming that wasn't reasonably possible after LV set the market at 0.
I would have been pissed if Chevy gave our '23 1st to Ari to get rid of him.
Agree if the trade wasn’t there you can’t make it …. Just think this won’t work either
Agree if the trade wasn’t there you can’t make it …. Just think this won’t work either
Imo leadership had already changed last year. Down the stretch the young core took over the leadership responsibilities and pushed Blake aside. So this is just making that official imo.
- Jun 10, 2014
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No one here knows that. Maybe it looks that way sometimes, maybe it doesn't.
I get tired of this Chipper is the real GM thing and sometimes Chevy is the real coach sneaks in too. Because that's what it means if the owner is tying the GM's hands or if the GM is dictating who plays where.
Owner involved is not the same as owner interfering.
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- Jun 10, 2014
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Fair question.
I would have assumed it would be necessary to retain 40-50%. Of course I would be willing to do that. That done, I think a .92 ppg player is worth a return in the neighbourhood of a late 1st.
But what do you do when a similar player has just been traded for zero return?
Fork Vegas! They managed to screw us again.
Comparing trying to trade Wheeler and Patches isn’t exactly comparing apples to apples,Vegas had to move Patches for cap reasons and teams knew that and I’m pretty sure teams are done trying to be even remotely nice to Vegas and couldn’t care less if they burn that bridge.
The Jets did not need to move Wheeler.
The Jets did not need to move Wheeler.
Have to strongly agree with this post and I think a lot of posters have an "inferiority complex" about their own City, being Winnipeg. Do you think Edmonton is warm? it's fricken freezing cold, and has lousy summers, that are cold. Yet Edmonton with a good GM like Holland just resigned Nugent Hopkins last year, and Evander Kane this year, and I'm sure McDavid and Draisatal will resign if the club is being run properly, which it is.
Look at Bobby Hull, who was the best player in the world at the time, and came to play in Winnipeg, because he was offered good money, and he stayed here. Wheeler has been here a long time, and so was Little, and Morrissey and Ehlers and Connor all signed long term contracts. People here on HF have to have a little pride in their City, and believe if the Jets attract good players, treat them right, and can pay competitive contracts, players will be happy to stay. Usually if players like their teammates they don't want to move anywhere. Winnipeg is a great City to play hockey in, and usually has a packed house. Right now tho, there's a problem in the dressing room, and Bowness is taking care of it, something Maurice didn't have the stones to do. Have a little faith HF ers.
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I posted this on another thread but the most recent 32 thoughts podcast had a good segment on the fallout from the Wheeler demotion. Its good to hear people that are plugged in to the NHL circles discuss the topic from more of an arms length perspective.
I posted this on another thread but the most recent 32 thoughts podcast had a good segment on the fallout from the Wheeler demotion. Its good to hear people that are plugged in to the NHL circles discuss the topic from more of an arms length perspective.
Thanks, I should have just looked at this thread first lol.
Very good listen, they seemed to touch on a lot of what has been speculated here. There is a fine line between pushing the right amount and being too intense. Seemed it crossed the line here. I also liked that they brought up Buff leaving, I think he counterbalanced Blake in the room and when he left there was no buffer anymore. As Morty Seinfeld would say when talking about George's parents and refusing to go back to Florida "You don't understand you need a buffer".
Interesting the story on Bergeron and making sure the raw rookie got a gift for the game. We've heard some smoke over the years that our room may not have been inclusive enough.
All in all I'm fascinated to see how things play out this year.
- Jun 10, 2014
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If who wears the C is irrelevant then so is who is not wearing it.
I agree they should have tried harder to move Wheeler, but this was a difficult year to move anyone.
I don't agree that leaving him with the C was an option.
Jetsfan79
Registered User
Everyone saying "half measure approach " are slightly arrogant to think they know what was offered to the Jets, even with retaining salary.
If the options were a half measure vs a negative measure, I would take the half measure any day of the week. . And we cant even say it's a half measure until we see the results on the ice.
If the options were a half measure vs a negative measure, I would take the half measure any day of the week. . And we cant even say it's a half measure until we see the results on the ice.
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I posted this on another thread but the most recent 32 thoughts podcast had a good segment on the fallout from the Wheeler demotion. Its good to hear people that are plugged in to the NHL circles discuss the topic from more of an arms length perspective.
haven't had a chance to listen yet. but thnx for posting @ps241
i remember when laine got dealt, wheeler mentioned he had regrets on how he handled his actions/relationship with laine. and it seemed like he was basically insulted that he had to coddle him.... how many times have we heard the "we're a young team" excuse too?
1.5 years later a new coach comes in, identifies young players needing a voice and stripping wheeler of the C.
Pretty much. Especially given our young players were the ones carrying the team for the most part. It had to be insulting to them and no surprise they had enough with him blaming them for the teams issues.
It's hard for fans bc we don't have 100% of the details. Wheeler seem to be a fan of Laine, & perhaps Laine could've responded or reacted better. But at the same time, I just view the series of transaction and events over the past 18-20 months, heck even from the conclusion of the 18-19 season, and im leaning towards that perhaps the Jets may have fumbled that relationship a bit more rather than the other way around.
This is becoming (probably already is) a youth driven league so leadership or management styles of 20+ years ago might not fly today.
I feel the “Wheeler regrets how he handled Laine” thing gets kind of blown out of proportion, he basically talked for 5 minutes on the subject and in the middle of it he said something along the lines of “if there was anything I regret it was not speaking to him every time, sometimes he did something and I’d bite my tongue and put my head down”
Now I would say Wheeler should have always been communicating with Laine as much as possible but what we don’t know is say maybe Wheeler never did bite his tongue for say the first three years and every time he did it fell on deaf ears or maybe Laine thought Wheeler was singling him out and that was what was causing friction between them.
If Laine wasn’t accepting the criticism/advice and took it as an insult or a negative way then that can’t be blamed on Wheeler.
I'm Going to guess there was a bit of a generation/personality gap between Blake and some of the youngsters and that Blake's style of leading didn't resonate strongly with many of them. The team did its best under his leadership when it had a number of veteran players on it with Buff, Toby, Myers, Enstrom, Little, Stastny carrying a good portion of the freight. Our youth was just establishing itself at that point.
I think this change is showing that the young players don't really accept his leadership anymore and want to do it their way.
Joe Hallenback
Moderator
- Mar 4, 2005
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I wouldn't say it was a guess I would say it was pretty spot on. You hard some old school types think that you win by eating/breathing/shitting hockey 24/7 and you have a newer generation that doesn't believe that
Oh I’d agree with that, but just thinking about it after the 18-19 seasons the Jets leaders and Maurice touched on how young players now want to be coached/talked to differently than players of the past.
Maybe this is when Wheeler started biting his tongue and that’s his biggest regret with Laine.
We often talk about how Buff being on the team kind of lightened the mood and acted as a buffer, but even Buff was caught on a hot mic yelling at Laine at the end of the game because he wasn’t doing anything and just standing there when Buff had a guy all over him.
Everyone knows in the last 5ish years the younger players are changing the way they want to be coached and to change the way a locker room works.
It’ll probably be another 5ish years before these players are the veterans and turned that into the standard.
It seems like there is such a fine line with the young players between how much you can coach them and how much they just want to have the freedom to do what they want, unfortunately for coaches like Cassidy and a Trotz (among others) that are very structured that’ll probably mean they will have a pretty short shelf life on each team.
Yeah leadership and leadership styles are a fascinating subject. It seems to me that the league goes in cycles. It goes from periods of creativity and freedom (80-early 90's) to periods of very detailed structure (dead puck era mid 90 to mid 00's). To a brief 5 years of exciting hockey post lockout to another 10 years of more structured and lower scoring.
Right now it seems this new generation of talent is a lot like late 80's to early 90's generation, a lot of speed and a lot of talent. They want to let their talent and creativity do the talking and aren't as interested in being heavily restricted by schemes and systems. It's why you are seeing more creativity, goal and points. Scoring numbers are creeping back up to early 90's levels.
As a fan the skill and creativity excites me but at the same time you have to also be able to properly take care of your end and defend when needed. I think the best coaches these days understand and let the talent shine in the ozone but work on detailed structure the red line back.
On the topic of Laine, I think he as an individual also had short comings when it came to being a professional. From rumors he didn't take training as seriously as he could have.
When I talk about youth I'm more talking about Conner, Ehlers, Perfetti, Dubois etc. These guys work their asses off in the offseason and bring it on the ice and in practice. But all seem to enjoy their down time and from what I gather aren't hockey 24/7 guys like Mark and Blake. Given that Laine is no longer here the rift is between those guys and Blake and maybe Mark.
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Seeing Laine traded, wheeler himself saying he has regrets on how he handled his relationship with Laine, then Maurice quit, wheeler stripped of the C and Bowness almost admitting (before correcting himself) that younger players need a voice and were blocked. For sure Laine could've handled things better but I also recognize he's a teen in a foreign country, in an org (or coach) that barely communicated. I can see it being difficult to navigate form his end. On top of what you mentioned before, how many times did he publicly get the short end of the stick while highly paid vets were pretty awful in their own too
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What changes either then taking the “C” away from Wheeler? No players have been moved and the team overall remains the same. Yes people wanted changes but what we got to this point has been a reshuffling at best. Maybe the Bone’s will fix the locker room. Who knows. Even that change was literally a take from right field. With all the coaches available was Bones the right one? Most here didn’t think so. Hell he wasn’t even on 98% of most people’s radar until it was announced he was in the running. Even then most though there were better options. True North repeatably has a way of raising expectations and then finding new ways to disappoint.
- Feb 24, 2015
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Good summary.
We all hope that Bones is the fix we need, if he is then TNSE comes out smelling like roses even though Bowness was not first choice.
Personally I do think we have a good roster.
My concerns are how will this group face adversity when it inevitably happens.
I can’t wait for the season to get going.
GJG
