Jets Announce Leadership Group Restructuring - Wheeler removed as Captain. No Captain for 22-23

RustyCat

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I'm Going to guess there was a bit of a generation/personality gap between Blake and some of the youngsters and that Blake's style of leading didn't resonate strongly with many of them. The team did its best under his leadership when it had a number of veteran players on it with Buff, Toby, Myers, Enstrom, Little, Stastny carrying a good portion of the freight. Our youth was just establishing itself at that point.

I think this change is showing that the young players don't really accept his leadership anymore and want to do it their way.

I think you are bang on. Look at who they brought in.....Bowness, a guy known for strong communication......Lauer, effectively communicated a bunch of youngsters to a championship......Johnston, know on the Moose for been an effective communicator (he spoke of his relationships with the younger players ie: Perfetti). So, I believe you are right and what we have is a changing of team philosophy with the desired outcome to be increased cohesion.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Ehlers with a 'C' at some point because he exemplifies what it takes to be a good team player and effective leader at a young age. I believe that both the vets and the up-and-comers would take to his style quite well.
 

Howard Chuck

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I think you are bang on. Look at who they brought in.....Bowness, a guy known for strong communication......Lauer, effectively communicated a bunch of youngsters to a championship......Johnston, know on the Moose for been an effective communicator (he spoke of his relationships with the younger players ie: Perfetti). So, I believe you are right and what we have is a changing of team philosophy with the desired outcome to be increased cohesion.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Ehlers with a 'C' at some point because he exemplifies what it takes to be a good team player and effective leader at a young age. I believe that both the vets and the up-and-comers would take to his style quite well.
Ehlers is the new Little. Does whatever the team needs.
 

JetsFan815

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If who wears the C is irrelevant then so is who is not wearing it.

I agree they should have tried harder to move Wheeler, but this was a difficult year to move anyone.

I don't agree that leaving him with the C was an option.

Who wears the C is irrelevant to team performance, who doesn't wear the C is relevant.
 
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snowkiddin

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Honestly if Ottawa with their cheap owner can last half a decade of a rebuild with a half empty building then so can we. This constant fear of the team moving is getting tiresome. There are significantly more revenue streams now vs. When we got the team back. There is also revenue sharing and TNSE has significantly diversified their business portfolio with significant real-estate and leasing income.
Well said, surixon, well flipping said.

Like my advertising instructor in college used to say, “if you can’t sell soap, sell hope.”

Indeed, if the Jets struggle with this current core again this year then it’s time for management to consider a rebuild and a look ahead to the future I.e. they won’t be selling “soap” (a contending team who will consistently deliver victories) but will instead sell “hope” (a young upstart team that has growing pains but will ultimately be the better for it).

This is an important year for the Jets. I want to see the team win and contend, but if that doesn’t happen this year then I’d much rather watch a young, upstart team than whatever the hell last year’s mess of a disaster was.
 
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nobody imp0rtant

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Well said, surixon, well flipping said.

Like my advertising instructor in college used to say, “if you can’t sell soap, sell hope.”

Indeed, if the Jets struggle with this current core again this year then it’s time for management to consider a rebuild and a look ahead to the future I.e. they won’t be selling “soap” (a contending team who will consistently deliver victories) but will instead sell “hope” (a young upstart team that has growing pains but will ultimately be the better for it).

This is an important year for the Jets. I want to see the team win and contend, but if that doesn’t happen this year then I’d much rather watch a young, upstart team than whatever the hell last year’s mess of a disaster was.
Yeah, last year all they sold was mope. :nod:
 

JetsFan815

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Honestly if Ottawa with their cheap owner can last half a decade of a rebuild with a half empty building then so can we. This constant fear of the team moving is getting tiresome. There are significantly more revenue streams now vs. When we got the team back. There is also revenue sharing and TNSE has significantly diversified their business portfolio with significant real-estate and leasing income.
Forget Ottawa... Arizona is literally playing this season in an "arena" equivalent to the Winnipeg Ice arena. There is no appetite to move franchises in the NHL and even in bad times Jets will still probably be better than atleast 20% of the franchises out there.
 

Mortimer Snerd

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Honestly if Ottawa with their cheap owner can last half a decade of a rebuild with a half empty building then so can we. This constant fear of the team moving is getting tiresome. There are significantly more revenue streams now vs. When we got the team back. There is also revenue sharing and TNSE has significantly diversified their business portfolio with significant real-estate and leasing income.

Yes!

But - the diversified business portfolio, real-estate, etc. is irrelevant. It would be very bad business to use one to subsidize the other. Jets could be moved/sold and those lines of business would continue for TNSE.

The additional revenue streams that are attached to the Jets are significant.
 
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Mortimer Snerd

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I tend to agree.

Either Winnipeg is a sustainable location for an NHL team, or it isn't. If it isn't, stop making excuses and pull up stakes -- and get ready to face the music. I don't think that the fanbase can be strung along indefinitely on soft resets and player departures and a team perennially in the mushy middle. Harder resets at least offer hope; soft resets and season after season of mediocrity kills hope.

If Chipman see WPG as a longterm home for the Jets, then the org needs to retain their key players and develop or bring in reasonable replacements for those who choose to leave as UFAs or force their way out earlier. They need to optimize every part of the org and squeeze value wherever they can -- even at a cost to the Jets "family." They need to be proactive and not reactive. They can't be taken by surprise that a coach plans to quit or a player wants out.

They need to sometimes make moves that cut against the organizational grain -- like retaining salary on a former team captain if it means a deal happens, and cutting bait with a player they're "invested in," should there be better options available on the farm.

Half-assery may make the world go round (hello, Sherry Bobbins!), but it doesn't tend to make for great sports teams. IMO.

Well said. :thumbu: :thumbu:
 

Andy6

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Yes!

But - the diversified business portfolio, real-estate, etc. is irrelevant. It would be very bad business to use one to subsidize the other. Jets could be moved/sold and those lines of business would continue for TNSE.

The additional revenue streams that are attached to the Jets are significant.
If the NHL has maxed out at 32 teams, the pressure from a place like Houston to buy an existing team could have more of an impact on the Jets' future than previously, when the NHL wouldn't have wanted a franchise transfer to deprive it of a $800m-dollar expansion franchise fee. That depends on a lot of things, but realistically I would guess it's maybe something like 70-30 that there will still be a team in Winnipeg a decade from now.

Well said. :thumbu: :thumbu:
So people would really, truly, rather have only the Moose to watch than a team that isn't better than the average NHL team?
 

Gabe Kupari

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I don't hate it. Mark is a hockey geek. Josh is a born leader. Now give one to Adam and Nicky. Truth be told I think Marks a stud this season, he seems legitimately excited In the recent videos I've seen.

I think last year there was no direction and Mark needs direction. He's a student of Ducky, ppl shouldn't be pissed at him still for saying what was actually on his mind at the time. Big year for Mark.
 

Mortimer Snerd

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Denver/ Aurora and surrounding counties is about 3.6 million which is similar to Minneapolis/St.Paul. One side of my family has lived in Denver since the 1960s. Denver is all about the Broncos. The Avs drew flies when they were bottoming out. Just this weekend my Dad was talking about going to an Avs v Jets game a few years back in Denver and there were only 2 people sitting in his entire row himself and his buddy both wearing Jets jerseys.

The Broncos on the other hand....Season tickets are still being passed down in people's wills despite their poor play of the last few seasons.

There may be an unintentional bottom out here in 2 years time but I cannot see a purposeful one. Within a few months we should have a good idea of the leadership of this hockey club in the near future.

Waiting for, and allowing, the unintentional bottom out in 2 years time is the thing to really be avoided. It means passing up the opportunity to jump start the rebuild with the return on the outgoing core players. Multiply the length of the rebuild by a large amount (I don't specify because it is not something that has been measured, but it will be a lot).

There was a good case to be made for doing it this off-season. Tank for Bedard, but also for several other very high end prospects coming up in the '23 draft if you don't win the lottery. OTOH, this cap strapped, post Covid off-season was not the best one for getting returns on good players.

Whatever the reasoning, it was decided not to do that this year. Fine, we can look forward to an interesting and possibly exciting season with our new coaching staff. But the possibility of doing it next off-season will need to be carefully considered, regardless of how the team performs this year.

PLD not wanting to stay here long term has been a huge influence on the long term picture, IMO. If he stayed, we would have 1 top 6 C and possibly another in Perfetti. We would have had KC and Ehlers on the wings along with Lucius, McGroarty and Lambert + a few other possibilities like Rashevsky, Chibrikov. On D we would have had JMo, Samberg, Heinola, Chisholm +. That would have been a pretty good start on a rebuild that you could add the returns from traded players plus a few higher picks in the next couple of drafts.

But without Dubois, we are missing at least 1 and maybe 2 top 6 Cs. That alone sets the rebuild back quite a bit, unless we get very lucky in those next couple of drafts. But if we trade a lot of top players after this season the returns would fill in some of the holes.

I'm not saying blow it up after this season, but it will need to be considered. If Scheifele has a good season, they will be looking at extending him next off-season. Look for something like 7x9 on that next contract. That would take him till he is 38. Will that contract be good for the first 4-5 years? If so the last 2-3 would probably be acceptable, but look at the angst here with Wheeler, and he hasn't even fallen off a cliff yet. Similar story with Helle. Maybe a little smaller contract, unless he has another Vezina level season. In that case, it would probably be about the same as Scheifele's.

I think management needs to try to guess how well those players age. And it is just a guess. What factors do you even consider? Fitness? Career injury load and work load? Good seasons for each or bad, you need to consider probability of continued high level performance vs the probable trade return.

Dillon's and DeMelo's contracts both expire at that same time too. Not nearly as significant, but still a factor. Dillon will be 32 next off-season, DeMelo 30. Extend or trade?
 

Mortimer Snerd

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The difference was having an elite offensive driver who was built like a tank in Buff. We don't have a Buff any longer but I'd say outside of that our dcore matches up well with the 17-18 group. So I'd say ours is an average group whereas that team was above average.

Bottom 6 depth isn't comparable though, that team had a stacked bottom 6.

This D corps is down more than just Buff. He is the main difference, of course. But we are also missing Trouba, who was very good that year and Enstrom. Myers had a good season. I would say the rest is about equal.
 

Mortimer Snerd

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Agree if the trade wasn’t there you can’t make it …. Just think this won’t work either :D

Fair enough. I'm not confident of this working either, but I'm thinking that Wheeler is big enough to get over it. But who knows?

I also think that he deserves some thanks for captaining, in spite of his weaknesses there. He really left it all out on the ice and lead by example. Unfortunately, some players stopped following. I recall him fighting when it seemed to be needed, even though he is not a fighter and not particularly good at it. And I remember him celebrating a key goal (don't even remember exactly when) with a gesture ripping his helmet strap open. That was a statement goal and a leadership goal at the time.

I also remember him with his arm around a rookie on the bench after the rookie effed up.

Last year might be making us forget his better moments. His attitude with the media was terrible.

Comparing trying to trade Wheeler and Patches isn’t exactly comparing apples to apples,Vegas had to move Patches for cap reasons and teams knew that and I’m pretty sure teams are done trying to be even remotely nice to Vegas and couldn’t care less if they burn that bridge.

The Jets did not need to move Wheeler.

And therefore, they did not move him.
 
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surixon

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This D corps is down more than just Buff. He is the main difference, of course. But we are also missing Trouba, who was very good that year and Enstrom. Myers had a good season. I would say the rest is about equal.

Sure but it's offset by JoMo being better then back then if he keeps last year up.

DeMelo also roughly covers Toby's contributions.

Schmidt and Myers are a wash

Really it's Pionk vs. Trouba and that could go wither way depending on which Pionk shows up.
 

Mortimer Snerd

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Everyone saying "half measure approach " are slightly arrogant to think they know what was offered to the Jets, even with retaining salary.

If the options were a half measure vs a negative measure, I would take the half measure any day of the week. . And we cant even say it's a half measure until we see the results on the ice.

What we know is that Chevy said they were not interested in retaining salary. That makes it a half measure. IMO, they could not be serious about trading Wheeler without reta8ining heavily.
 
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razorsedge

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Yes!

But - the diversified business portfolio, real-estate, etc. is irrelevant. It would be very bad business to use one to subsidize the other. Jets could be moved/sold and those lines of business would continue for TNSE.

The additional revenue streams that are attached to the Jets are significant.
Finally someone with an understanding of business.

True North will never go broke because they won't keep a business that is losing millions in their portfolio.
 
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surixon

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Yes!

But - the diversified business portfolio, real-estate, etc. is irrelevant. It would be very bad business to use one to subsidize the other. Jets could be moved/sold and those lines of business would continue for TNSE.

The additional revenue streams that are attached to the Jets are significant.

In vacuum you are correct but keep in mind most of those real estate deals only became possible due to the Jets coming back and driving more interest in that area of town. The Hargrave market likely doesn't survive without the pre and post game clientele that floods it. That market occupies the largest leased footprint in the square.

How many people are going to want to live in those expensive apartments with no Jets?

So while separate in many ways they are interrelated and dependent in many ways. The Jets are the driver that gets people excited about living, playing and working in that area which drives moat of the other revenue.
 

Eyeseeing

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Fair enough. I'm not confident of this working either, but I'm thinking that Wheeler is big enough to get over it. But who knows?

I also think that he deserves some thanks for captaining, in spite of his weaknesses there. He really left it all out on the ice and lead by example. Unfortunately, some players stopped following. I recall him fighting when it seemed to be needed, even though he is not a fighter and not particularly good at it. And I remember him celebrating a key goal (don't even remember exactly when) with a gesture ripping his helmet strap open. That was a statement goal and a leadership goal at the time.

I also remember him with his arm around a rookie on the bench after the rookie effed up.

Last year might be making us forget his better moments. His attitude with the media was terrible.



And therefore, they did not move him.
E8A9A537-33E2-4F2C-B0E5-1EDF3D4BCCED.gif
 

surixon

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Interestingly, Ehlers sermed the most "Not shocked" about Wheeler losing the C. Had a more " we need to all step up" demeanor than a " I need to be there for Blake "demeanor. Not saying he lobbied for it , but I got a sense he's ready for a new era when it comes to team leadership

Not surprising to me, he seemed to be the player that got the most flack for how he played the game from the last coaching staff and Blake was a big backer of Moe. I imagine he is one of the players who wants more say.
 

bennylundholm

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Interestingly, Ehlers sermed the most "Not shocked" about Wheeler losing the C. Had a more " we need to all step up" demeanor than a " I need to be there for Blake "demeanor. Not saying he lobbied for it , but I got a sense he's ready for a new era when it comes to team leadership
Nik must be pumped to hopefully get prime minutes on PP1.
Ridiculous under Maurice having your most skilled player on the bench for two thirds of most power plays.
 

BoneDocUK

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Not surprising to me, he seemed to be the player that got the most flack for how he played the game from the last coaching staff and Blake was a big backer of Moe. I imagine he is one of the players who wants more say.

Ehlers is a true gamer who leads by example. As one of the team's most important players since he hit his stride and someone who has consistently remained accountable for his own play and the team's, I expect that he was looking to have some input with the leadership group. I get that no team is ever a complete meritocracy, but I think the best ones are closest. Change was overdue.

And, of course, this:

1663943135191.png
 

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