Friedman: Jets and Rutger McGroarty are not talking - his name is coming up in trade talks

[biturbo19]

I don't see it as bogus at all. He is looking at what happened to other prospects before him.

Ducks have lost a prospect to NCAA "yea I'll sign for sure", then didn't bullshit. That guy even signed in Edmonton of all places.

I think you're completely missing the point here. The Ducks at the time, were not willing to give Schultz the time of day and guarantee him immediate NHL icetime. Because why would they? They were absolutely stacked with top quality NHL defencemen and other good young players and prospects in the system ahead of him at the time.

So he threw a little fit, went to Edmonton and very nearly killed his career before it even got started in the process. By playing a bunch of minutes he was clearly not ready for. Be careful what you wish for.


There can be different reasons for it, and it's not even strictly about Winnipeg or Canada in general. It's about this subset of players who are willing and able to leverage something that is overall, advantageous to a handful of specific teams, and a disadvantage to others. It's an inherently unbalanced piece of a supposedly "balanced" parity system. It's annoying.

It's something that should be rectified, but won't be...because it benefits several of the heavy hitters on the BoG and would be an absolute mess in having to deal with the NCAA and open all sorts of other cans of worms for the NHLPA wanting other player destination determination concessions. So it just festers. But that doesn't make it any less annoying when it repeatedly happens. And is clearly linked with the RFA problem that has a far more national bent to it.

 

[biturbo19]

I think this batch of US players isn’t doing the next batch any favors. Teams may actually start avoiding them when possible, affecting draft position which has an impact on finances too. The kid doesn’t have as much leverage as you might think. This happening now suggests the kid wants out now, he’s trying to maximize the amount he makes by starting as early as he can. If the team doesn’t sign him and won’t trade him because they aren’t getting value he has to sit and waste two years he clearly thinks he doesn’t need in the NCAA’s. Sure he gets freedom down the road but he loses these two years of would be pay.

I doubt it gets to that point. Outside of certain specific streams that present a clearly greater risk (which is already typically factored into value), teams will still take risks on talent, period. I don't think it's even really a "US Players" generality either. In fact, it's not even a huge issue with the majority of them. It's really just a small subset who leverage this, and a lot of them actually just wait until they're RFA approaching UFA status to make their move anyway.

But there is also a financial component to this, which is noteworthy. Where it's become basically routine to now "burn" the first year of a high profile NCAA players contract at the end of the year and accelerate their timeline in moving off that ELC. That's a unique financial caveat that tends to set NCAA players out ahead of the average CHL player in advancing their earnings potential with the "slide rule".

There's just a confluence of nuance in the rules that tends to be advantageous for certain players. It puts them in a position of control that was clearly not intended. Heck, if i were a Euro player, i'd probably be more mad than anyone, as they might even get screwed the most out of all this.

 

[bleedgreen]

I doubt it gets to that point. Outside of certain specific streams that present a clearly greater risk (which is already typically factored into value), teams will still take risks on talent, period. I don't think it's even really a "US Players" generality either. In fact, it's not even a huge issue with the majority of them. It's really just a small subset who leverage this, and a lot of them actually just wait until they're RFA approaching UFA status to make their move anyway.

But there is also a financial component to this, which is noteworthy. Where it's become basically routine to now "burn" the first year of a high profile NCAA players contract at the end of the year and accelerate their timeline in moving off that ELC. That's a unique financial caveat that tends to set NCAA players out ahead of the average CHL player in advancing their earnings potential with the "slide rule".

There's just a confluence of nuance in the rules that tends to be advantageous for certain players. It puts them in a position of control that was clearly not intended. Heck, if i were a Euro player, i'd probably be more mad than anyone, as they might even get screwed the most out of all this.

I think it’s two issues. One is what you’re talking about, the increasingly assumed move of signing late in the season to burn a year. The other seemingly growing concern is using not getting that year as an impetus to try to force a trade. I don’t believe either Gauthier nor McGroarty were so upset at their teams that they just refused to play for them. I don’t think either player wanted to play for their team, and are using the situation to force a move. The move gets them signed quicker potentially but also gives them some say in what team they go to.

McGroarty and Gauthier are usndt teammates, presumably friends. Both forcing moves under similar circumstances does potentially create a pattern with high end NCAA players. Teams will have to take this risk into account moving forward. I could see teams having two players at a similar level at the draft, and choosing the non ncaa player in the first round to avoid this kind of situation.

 

[Visnovsky]

Liljegren, straight up?

 

[kenobiwan]

Liljegren, straight up?

LMAO

 

[VictoriaJetsFan]

Connor McMichael as a base for Rutger? McMichael may be surplus to requirements in Washington with the acquisition of PLD and the Caps have a need for another top six winger. McMike centered each of the top three lines last year and is a very good two-way player that can play now for Winnipeg if they’re not interested in futures.

Ryan Chesley is interesting. Could be something of a deal here.

 

[VictoriaJetsFan]

Avs should really be interested.

Calum Ritchie 1 for 1?

yes please.

 

[biturbo19]

I think it’s two issues. One is what you’re talking about, the increasingly assumed move of signing late in the season to burn a year. The other seemingly growing concern is using not getting that year as an impetus to try to force a trade. I don’t believe either Gauthier nor McGroarty were so upset at their teams that they just refused to play for them. I don’t think either player wanted to play for their team, and are using the situation to force a move. The move gets them signed quicker potentially but also gives them some say in what team they go to.

McGroarty and Gauthier are usndt teammates, presumably friends. Both forcing moves under similar circumstances does potentially create a pattern with high end NCAA players. Teams will have to take this risk into account moving forward. I could see teams having two players at a similar level at the draft, and choosing the non ncaa player in the first round to avoid this kind of situation.

I think this is where it gets a little more specific. It's about these "funnel" programs in and around the USNTDP. It starts at much younger, youth hockey ages. Everything is basically "steered" toward these paths if a player is successful.

Basically...Michigan, Boston College, Boston University, Minnesota, Wisconsin. And then obviously Harvard, which is actually a separate sort of landmine that teams have been aware of and avoided or downgraded prospects on for ages now.


But it honestly feels like it's potentially becoming an issue that the NCAA are might have to deal with at some point. Where more and more, we're seeing these "superteams" where the top line of the USNTDP all jump ship to the same school all at once. It's mostly powerhouse influential programs in the grand scheme of things so i doubt there's much movement on it, but it's even starting to skew the competitive balance at that level as well. The only reprieve being, other "top collegiate teams" tend to be able to hang onto players for longer and can try to win (and often do) with experience and polish over raw skill and "just passing through" flash in the pan talents.

 

[I am Canadian]

With an addition for Necas?

 

[biturbo19]

Avs should really be interested.

Calum Ritchie 1 for 1?

Might be one of the rare cases where the Jets could actually "win" this situation. I'd be all over that from a Jets perspective. Move a guy who clearly doesn't want to be there for a prospect i really like with big upside and a hugely positive trajectory? Yep.

 

[Kingsfan1]

To be fair I don't think LHD would be of interest in general, the needs are 2C or top 4 RHD

Jordan Spence + 2nd ? Do we have to add ?

 

[cheesymc]

If Ducks trade down and acquire a late 1st, how about two late 1sts for Rutger so he can play with his buddy Cutter.

 

[FlappyGiraffe]

If Ducks trade down and acquire a late 1st, how about two late 1sts for Rutger so he can play with his buddy Cutter.

Late 1sts don't really move the needle - an NHL ready guy like Zellweger might be an interesting swap

 

[Boo Boo]

i don’t know why nhl gms insist on drafting these high end American players and then refuse to sign and play them during the season when the player wants to sign. It’s like putting your hand in the lions mouth then complaining when it bites

 

[HaNotsri]

No stellar talent (barring Celebrini). No clear cut elite top defender or forward. Lots of skill but appears to be a lot of low ceilings.

Yeah people said the same thing 2014. In a draft where a guy like Helenius might go 10-15 the drop off isn't that bad.

 

[TheDoldrums]

What are they doing wrong here? Why would anyone be guaranteed a spot? Even Macklin could show poorly enough to not play next year, unlikely but possible.

Earn your spot. It’s not a tough concept. How could his teammates respect him if he doesn’t?

He wanted to be signed and play in the playoffs. This is not an uncommon situation. I assure you Matthew Knies, Cale Makar and Luke Hughes didn’t lose their teammates respect just because their teams agreed they were ready to play and created a path to get them in NHL games immediately after signing. The Jets appear short-sighted and overly conservative here and it’s cost them a player that many covet judging by this thread.

 

[TheOrganist]

Have they tried therapy?

 

[NJ DevLolz]

I would do it for 10 oa with a small add (2nd or 3rd) from Winnipeg

 

[bleedgreen]

He wanted to be signed and play in the playoffs. This is not an uncommon situation. I assure you Matthew Knies, Cale Makar and Luke Hughes didn’t lose their teammates respect just because their teams agreed they were ready to play and created a path to get them in NHL games immediately after signing. The Jets appear short-sighted and overly conservative here and it’s cost them a player that many covet judging by this thread.

Those guys didn’t lose respect because they were good enough to take a spot away from someone. They went to practice and it was clear they belonged. I was at Makar’s firsts game and at the end of the first power play Mackinnon was already deferring to the rookie….so this is a poor comparison. If a team is deep and getting ready for a playoff run, and they’re adding a guy who is not an easy automatic upgrade to what they have then they of course would have to come earn it. They would have to beat someone out. I wouldn’t guarantee the guy a spot.

Also, if the team knows it’s up in the air that the guy would play….why would they burn the year? I think it’s 100% appropriate for teams to not cave on burning a year just because the player wants to. If the player wants to throw a hissy fit and demand a trade you didn’t want the player. I don’t believe that’s what’s happening here. I think that neither he nor Gauthier wanted to play for that team, and maybe they were willing to start with them if the team caved and paid them early but once that got blown they could use it as an opportunity to force a trade to where they want to go. This guy isn’t actually upset at Winni, it’s a window to try to take control that’s been created by Gauthier and his situation and now his presumable friend and US teammate is doing the same thing.

I’d let him sit if they don’t get the trade they want.

 

[bleedgreen]

I think this is where it gets a little more specific. It's about these "funnel" programs in and around the USNTDP. It starts at much younger, youth hockey ages. Everything is basically "steered" toward these paths if a player is successful.

Basically...Michigan, Boston College, Boston University, Minnesota, Wisconsin. And then obviously Harvard, which is actually a separate sort of landmine that teams have been aware of and avoided or downgraded prospects on for ages now.


But it honestly feels like it's potentially becoming an issue that the NCAA are might have to deal with at some point. Where more and more, we're seeing these "superteams" where the top line of the USNTDP all jump ship to the same school all at once. It's mostly powerhouse influential programs in the grand scheme of things so i doubt there's much movement on it, but it's even starting to skew the competitive balance at that level as well. The only reprieve being, other "top collegiate teams" tend to be able to hang onto players for longer and can try to win (and often do) with experience and polish over raw skill and "just passing through" flash in the pan talents.

The kids deciding to go together and creating super teams is definitely a new twist to this. I don’t know that you can do anything about that. You won’t get me to believe Gauthier and McGroarty aren’t acquainted enough that they didn’t have conversations about what’s going on with their drafted teams and the behind the scenes maneuvering that’s being played out here.

 

[Rob Brown]

If he is traded, is he still 100% going back to Michigan? Or could he end up pivoting and signing an ELC? Not too familiar with college hockey rules and if he's already locked in or if there is still a possibility for him to go pro. I know it's unlikely as he wouldn't want to screw Michigan, but just curious.

 

[Fatass]

Those guys didn’t lose respect because they were good enough to take a spot away from someone. They went to practice and it was clear they belonged. I was at Makar’s firsts game and at the end of the first power play Mackinnon was already deferring to the rookie….so this is a poor comparison. If a team is deep and getting ready for a playoff run, and they’re adding a guy who is not an easy automatic upgrade to what they have then they of course would have to come earn it. They would have to beat someone out. I wouldn’t guarantee the guy a spot.

Also, if the team knows it’s up in the air that the guy would play….why would they burn the year? I think it’s 100% appropriate for teams to not cave on burning a year just because the player wants to. If the player wants to throw a hissy fit and demand a trade you didn’t want the player. I don’t believe that’s what’s happening here. I think that neither he nor Gauthier wanted to play for that team, and maybe they were willing to start with them if the team caved and paid them early but once that got blown they could use it as an opportunity to force a trade to where they want to go. This guy isn’t actually upset at Winni, it’s a window to try to take control that’s been created by Gauthier and his situation and now his presumable friend and US teammate is doing the same thing.

I’d let him sit if they don’t get the trade they want.

If the kid is only open to a trade to the team he wants then absolutely don’t take a bad deal. Make him wait. The kid wastes two years of earning and is two years later to his second contract. And the Jets get a second in compensation.

 

[theguybro]

Would something around John Marino and either your 2024 3rd or 2025 2nd pick back from NJ work ? NJ is supposedly interested in signing pesce so that means Marino would be available . He fills a top 4 RD need who is signed for 3 more years at 4.4. Unless of course Jets are one of his 8 NTC teams .

 

[tbcwpg]

Would something around John Marino and either your 2024 3rd or 2025 2nd pick back from NJ work ? NJ is supposedly interested in signing pesce so that means Marino would be available . He fills a top 4 RD need who is signed for 3 more years at 4.4. Unless of course Jets are one of his 8 NTC teams .

I've liked Marino but probably not in a McGroarty trade. Also you brought up the NTC, which, uh, yeah I'd guarantee Winnipeg is on it.

 

[Icelevel]

We could offer Jakob Chychrun and a 4th