Post-Game Talk: Jets 4- Yotes 3 in OT

[Buffdog]

As an aside, today was stressful...

My youngest daughter's U15 AA game went into OT today and they won (over 8 minutes of 3 vs 3)

My oldest daughter's USport game went into double OT and they won

Both were facing elimination

Jets also win in OT

 

[jokesondee]

We definitely dont look like the same team from December. Been ugly for a while now. Need to shake it off. Im not happy but ill take the two though .

 

[TheBuyckStopsHere]

Bucky Nice save! Gotta admit that was a great move by Durzi.

 

[bustamente]

These types of games are the games we lost last year at this time, this year they are doing just enough to win.

 

[Atoyot]

Still waiver exempt unless Capfriendly is drunk but I doubt Bowness resorts to that option with him. I'm thinking my hurt his damaged confidence more.

Hurt his confidence more than playing fewer than 8 minutes a night? He would dominate in the AHL at a critical time. Again, not what I would do, I would play him more, but if my only options were to play him at fewer than 10 minutes a night or let him be a key player in a playoff run in the AHL, I'd send him down.

Maybe it's age 22 based on the start of the year

Exemption Determination​

• Covid Roster Freeze Player: No
• 2020-21 Games Played Prorated Player: No
• Waivers signing age: 18
  • 8 GP in first season (Prorated for 56/82 games in the 2020-21 shortened season): No
  • 11 GP in second season: Yes
  • Position: Skater
    • Seasons Exempt: 4
    • NHL Games Played Exempt: 160

Is the CapFriendly logic. Don't fully understand why it's 160 games but I've had a couple and don't care enough to suss it out. I trust them more than my ability to understand right now

 

[surixon]

Your age for the year is your age at December 31st, so Perfetti is considered to be 21 by one day, but I'm still reading it as 80 games to be eligible for waivers? Still reading, CapFriendly's calculator does still have him as waiver exempt.

Yeah thats what I read as well. Odd that capfriendly is saying one thing and the other something else.

But I'd hope that this recent stretch is just to maybe help him refocus and he's back up soon. I can't see how Iafallo is at all an answer in our top 6.

 

[razorsedge]

Pooh approves of accidentally gaining 2 points.

 

[surixon]

Hurt his confidence more than playing fewer than 8 minutes a night? He would dominate in the AHL at a critical time. Again, not what I would do, I would play him more, but if my only options were to play him at fewer than 10 minutes a night or let him be a key player in a playoff run in the AHL, I'd send him down.

Exemption Determination​

• Covid Roster Freeze Player: No
• 2020-21 Games Played Prorated Player: No
• Waivers signing age: 18
  • 8 GP in first season (Prorated for 56/82 games in the 2020-21 shortened season): No
  • 11 GP in second season: Yes
  • Position: Skater
    • Seasons Exempt: 4
    • NHL Games Played Exempt: 160

Is the CapFriendly logic. Don't fully understand why it's 160 games but I've had a couple and don't care enough to suss it out. I trust them more than my ability to understand right now

I have a hard time following that logic.

 

[ThinIce61]

Hurt his confidence more than playing fewer than 8 minutes a night? He would dominate in the AHL at a critical time. Again, not what I would do, I would play him more, but if my only options were to play him at less than 10 minutes a night or let him be a key player in a playoff run in the AHL, I'd send him down.

I can agree with that, he might need a handful of games in the AHL to regain some confidence in himself but even with the drought he is still a better than half a point per game for the season. Sending him down then raises the issue of who draws in and what happens when it's decided it is time to bring Cole back up.

Maybe he goes down until the trade deadline and then comes back up? After that there is no waivers, am I correct in remembering that?

The trade deadline may yet impact the roster makeup as well. Personally I would not send him down, but the option is there I guess. The short term and long term ramifications of such a move would definitely be something to watch.

 

[Atoyot]

I have a hard time following that logic.

The CapFriendly logic or the sending him down logic?

 

[surixon]

I can agree with that, he might need a handful of games in the AHL to regain some confidence in himself but even with the drought he is still a better than half a point per game for the season. Sending him down then raises the issue of who draws in and what happens when it's decided it is time to bring Cole back up.

Maybe he goes down until the trade deadline and then comes back up? After that there is no waivers, am I correct in remembering that?

The trade deadline may yet impact the roster makeup as well. Personally I would not send him down, but the option is there I guess. The short term and long term ramifications of such a move would definitely be something to watch.

The kid is going to have to learn how to break out of slumps in this league. I'd think that's a better lesson for him to learn then going down to a league he's already dominated.

There is also the money aspect as well. How many kids go to the AHL after playing over 100 straight NHL games. He likely sees himself as an NHL player now and org better handle things carefully with him.

The CapFriendly logic or the sending him down logic?

Both, but was referring to the capfriendly part in that post.

Anyhow it's only been two games on the fourth and we shall see if he can work his way back up.

 

[bustamente]

There is no reason to send Perfetti down he is young and trying to figure it out, best place for him to get back on track is with the big club

 

[Atoyot]

The kid is going to have to learn how to break out of slumps in this league. I'd think that's a better lesson for him to learn then going down to a league he's already dominated.

There is also the money aspect as well. How many kids go to the AHL after playing over 100 straight NHL games. He likely sees himself as an NHL player now and org better handle things carefully with him.



Both, but was referring to the capfriendly part in that post.

Agreed on both accounts. I don't see the logic of not letting him work through it, but he's not going to at 8 minutes a night. Usage and opportunity is important, Garrett mentioned at one point that if McDavid were to be used as a 4th liner his numbers would be much lower than you'd expect (I don't want to specifically quote numbers as I can't properly remember). Playing him on the 4th line doesn't give him the chance to break though a slump, it solidifies the slump. Again, I'd rather play him more but if the two options are to play 4th line or be a main player in the AHL, I'd rather he play in the AHL.

There is no reason to send Perfetti down he is young and trying to figure it out, best place for him to get back on track is with the big club

If he's viewed by Bowness as a player that should only be playing 8 minutes a night, then yes, he should absolutely be sent down.

 

[bustamente]

If he's viewed by Bowness as a player that should only be playing 8 minutes a night, then yes, he should absolutely be sent down.

It's not like he has only been playing 8 minutes a night for the last few weeks, lets see how things are going in the next couple of weeks

 

[surixon]

Agreed on both accounts. I don't see the logic of not letting him work through it, but he's not going to at 8 minutes a night. Usage and opportunity is important, Garrett mentioned at one point that if McDavid were to be used as a 4th liner his numbers would be much lower than you'd expect (I don't want to specifically quote numbers as I can't properly remember). Playing him on the 4th line doesn't give him the chance to break though a slump, it solidifies the slump. Again, I'd rather play him more but if the two options are to play 4th line or be a main player in the AHL, I'd rather he play in the AHL.


If he's viewed by Bowness as a player that should only be playing 8 minutes a night, then yes, he should absolutely be sent down.

I agree that usage is important. But I'd say it's too soon to say what the actual plan is here. This is the most games Cole has played since his draft year due to a combination of COVID and injuries. It might be that Bones has every intention of moving him back but just wants to lighten his load for a few games. He may also want him to have a few games where he isn't expected to score on the 4th to take some pressure off and get him refocused.

But this is where there needs to be a clear plan on the coach to put him back into a role he can contribute. If not management needs to be involved to ensure there is.

I get the confidence angle but if they elect to send him down, they had damn well better have communicated a clear plan with Cole and have him mostly on-board.

 

[Atoyot]

It's not like he has only been playing 8 minutes a night for the last few weeks, lets see how things are going in the next couple of weeks

That's fair, but his ice time and the quality of his linemates has been trending down all month. If he's put in a position to succeed and build his confidence I'm all for it, but based on his usage lately I just don't see how it would help his confidence more than it hurts it.

My argument here is that if this is how Bowness views his importance to the team I'd rather him be sent down. I'm looking at it dichotomously, if he's going to be used as a 4th liner with 4th liner minutes send him down, if not then stop using him as a 4th liner and keep him up.

 

[NA Hockey]

Agreed on both accounts. I don't see the logic of not letting him work through it, but he's not going to at 8 minutes a night. Usage and opportunity is important, Garrett mentioned at one point that if McDavid were to be used as a 4th liner his numbers would be much lower than you'd expect (I don't want to specifically quote numbers as I can't properly remember). Playing him on the 4th line doesn't give him the chance to break though a slump, it solidifies the slump. Again, I'd rather play him more but if the two options are to play 4th line or be a main player in the AHL, I'd rather he play in the AHL.


If he's viewed by Bowness as a player that should only be playing 8 minutes a night, then yes, he should absolutely be sent down. @surixon

Unfortunately the coach has sucked all the confidence out of him, slowly but surely and this is the culmination of it. From giving 3 whole games at centre to start the year before pulling. the plug (he was doing fine and learning) , to playing him 13-14 mins a night when he was near a PPG player through 25 games , to taking him off of PP1 when he was the leading PP scorer, to sitting him and punishing him for errors or mistakes that others do way more frequently and are more costly, to never giving him a chance at 3 on 3 or 4 on 4 and generally just show any trust or belief in what he does. Sending a top 6 scorer on the team, with strong analytics and is a +10 to the PB or Moose would just further destroy any confidence and cement a feeling that they don't believe in him.

Hopefully he gets another chance up the lineup and he runs with it.

 

[Atoyot]

Unfortunately the coach has sucked all the confidence out of him, slowly but surely and this is the culmination of it. From giving 3 whole games at centre to start the year before pulling. the plug (he was doing fine and learning) , to playing him 13-14 mins a night when he was near a PPG player through 25 games , to taking him off of PP1 when he was the leading PP scorer, to sitting him and punishing him for errors or mistakes that others do way more frequently and are more costly, to never giving him a chance at 3 on 3 or 4 on 4 and generally just show any trust or belief in what he does. Sending a top 6 scorer on the team, with strong analytics and is a +10 to the PB or Moose would just further destroy any confidence and cement a feeling that they don't believe in him.

Hopefully he gets another chance up the lineup and he runs with it.

I'd rather him go down and feel like he's working towards being a quality NHL player than keeping him up and giving him zero chance of being one. It doesn't matter how good he is, if he's being used as a 4th line player he will not produce. I just feel like putting him in a position to not play his game is setting him up to fail. The further he goes down the lineup the less he produces. The less he produces the more he has trouble working his way back up the lineup and the more his confidence takes a hit. It just feels like a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

[Buffdog]

Agreed on both accounts. I don't see the logic of not letting him work through it, but he's not going to at 8 minutes a night. Usage and opportunity is important, Garrett mentioned at one point that if McDavid were to be used as a 4th liner his numbers would be much lower than you'd expect (I don't want to specifically quote numbers as I can't properly remember). Playing him on the 4th line doesn't give him the chance to break though a slump, it solidifies the slump. Again, I'd rather play him more but if the two options are to play 4th line or be a main player in the AHL, I'd rather he play in the AHL.


If he's viewed by Bowness as a player that should only be playing 8 minutes a night, then yes, he should absolutely be sent down.

Interesting fact about perfetti...

He's 22 and since turning pro (early due to the covid loophole), his 56 games he's played this season is his most due to injuries in previous seasons (last season he only played 51)

While he's much more physically mature, this is his first time experiencing the grind of a full NHL season.

It would be completely reasonable for him to slip into a bit of a slump right around now, as well as for Bones to give him a bit of a reprieve by lowering his minutes a bit

Ideally, there's be a 3rd scoring line for him to play on but with the way lowrys line is deployed, I don't think putting him there is the right idea. Therefore, 4th line it is... and I think he's looked really good there

 

[surixon]

I'd rather him go down and feel like he's working towards being a quality NHL player than keeping him up and giving him zero chance of being one. It doesn't matter how good he is, if he's being used as a 4th line player he will not produce. I just feel like putting him in a position to not play his game is setting him up to fail. The further he goes down the lineup the less he produces. The less he produces the more he has trouble working his way back up the lineup and the more his confidence takes a hit. It just feels like a self fulfilling prophecy.

I sometimes think Chevy gives his coaches far too much autonomy. This is where he needs to call Bones into his office. This is a top 10 pick and the org can't afford to blow it.

 

[jetsfan15]

At the end of the day, a win is a win. But I don’t think the Jets have played all that well over the past few games. Not sure why but the 5v5 play hasn’t been quite as good as we’re used to seeing, and last couple games were against some pretty weak teams in the standings. Hopefully they can get back to how they were playing. That being said, a win is a win and they did manage to win not just tonight but their last 3 games despite some subpar play 5v5. At least the PP woke up right on time to compensate for the weaker 5v5 play lol. But in the playoffs, the 5v5 performance is really key to a long run.

 

[Mud Turtle]

We definitely dont look like the same team from December. Been ugly for a while now. Need to shake it off. Im not happy but ill take the two though .

The impeccable defensive structure has definitely disappeared.
It started a couple weeks before the all-star break.
Not exactly sure where it went.

I echo what another poster said. I hope they’re not learning bad lessons from still getting points when they probably don’t deserve them.

So far, over the last 5-6 weeks, the Vancouver game is the anomaly, not the norm.

 

[winnipegger]

It's not about any single game. Hockey at this level is chaos. Anything can happen because there's so much skill on the ice, even with bad teams. What should be concerning for everyone is the trend in 2024 is to win games looking like this. That defensive streak in 2023 is far in the rear view mirror now.

 

[Atoyot]

Interesting fact about perfetti...

He's 22 and since turning pro (early due to the covid loophole), his 56 games he's played this season is his most due to injuries in previous seasons (last season he only played 51)

While he's much more physically mature, this is his first time experiencing the grind of a full NHL season.

It would be completely reasonable for him to slip into a bit of a slum right around now, as well as for Bones to give him a bit of a reprieve by lowering his minutes a bit

Ideally, there's be a 3rd scoring line for him to play on but with the way lowrys line is deployed, I don't think putting him there is the right idea. Therefore, 4th line it is... and I think he's looked really good there

That's fair. I'm not really assuming anything, I'm just giving a series of if:then statements. If Bowness thinks Perfetti is the 10th+ best forward on the team right now, then I think he would be better served playing in the AHL. If Bowness is waiting for Perfetti to produce in the position he's in right now, then I think it's detrimental to Perfetti's development and is more likely to hurt his confidence as even the best players in the league would struggle to produce with his deployment right now.

 

[jetsforever]

Winning is fun!