Tribute Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Goodbye and Good Luck part II

[DAChampion]

It's debatable if Hughes would have made it in this organization.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Don't worry Brother I was right there with ya, Miller Time just couldn't see Bambi for what he was

Thanks, yeah I know there are some good posters here too, but the mob mentality on certain topics is just crazy.

 

[McGees]

It's debatable if Hughes would have made it in this organization.

On top of that, the draft was during a year where we were still an extremely undersized team, wasn’t a risk that made sense for Habs at the time. Size and a C were what we needed most so if it wasn’t KK, Tkachuk should have been the next consideration

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Hughes would be locked as 6th-7th, third pairing dman, rotating in and out of the lineup because of his defensive lapses and Romanov would still be playing in the K because of having too many green dmen.

I think there's always that bit of exaggeration. Hughes may not be treated like our #1 D but he certainly wouldn't be in and out of the lineup.

A guy producing that much can't be ignored.

 

[The Great Weal]

It's debatable if Hughes would have made it in this organization.

If Mete played on the first pair, then so would Hughes

 

[DAChampion]

If Mete played on the first pair, then so would Hughes

That doesn't follow, as Hughes' issue is catastrophically bad defense.

 

[The Great Weal]

That doesn't follow, as Hughes' issue is catastrophically bad defense.

Ya that's just simply not true. He looked fine next to Tanev and would have looked fine next to Weber who made Mete and many more look much better than they actually were defensively.

It's really not debatable if he would have made this organization. Kid is uber talented, a world class skater and a very smart player. People seem to forget how solid he was defensively in his rookie season but one horendous stretch on an awful Canucks team matters more than anything else.

 

[Miller Time]

I think there's always that bit of exaggeration. Hughes may not be treated like our #1 D but he certainly wouldn't be in and out of the lineup.

A guy producing that much can't be ignored.

Being productive hasn't stopped this organization from keeping a short leash on young players in favour of less productive vets.

 

[DAChampion]

Ya that's just simply not true. He looked fine next to Tanev and would have looked fine next to Weber who made Mete and many more look much better than they actually were defensively.

It's really not debatable if he would have made this organization. Kid is uber talented, a world class skater and a very smart player. People seem to forget how solid he was defensively in his rookie season but one horendous stretch on an awful Canucks team matters more than anything else.

Hughes had the worst +/- on the Canucks by an colossal margin, and the Habs pretty much scored at will when he was on the ice this past season. History shows that Habs' brass has little patience for defensively weak young players, never mind catastrophically bad ones.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Being productive hasn't stopped this organization from keeping a short leash on young players in favour of less productive vets.

There’s a difference though. Hughes has outstanding offense. We’re not talking giving someone huge sheltered minutes so they can muster 30 Pts.

I don’t disagree with you either but in the case of someone as productive as Hughes it isn’t the same general rule.

 

[CanadienShark]

i truly hope they sign him for 4 mill in January and the habs file a complaint of tampering and they f*** the canes and dundon with a fine and compensation for Mtl

Huh? That would be 100% legal. That's not tampering - it's re-signing your own player.

 

[Sagikev]

Huh? That would be 100% legal. That's not tampering - it's re-signing your own player.

There are rumors ever since KK signed the offer sheet that the Canes had a 4m deal on the table for january. The league would need proofs that this is real to be considered tampering. So yeah pretty much no chance this happens, even if it might be tampering.

 

[LaP]

i truly hope they sign him for 4 mill in January and the habs file a complaint of tampering and they f*** the canes and dundon with a fine and compensation for Mtl

 

[Bacchus1]

Man, this farewell has been drawn out more than that hyperbolic death of the Mechanical Bottom as Pyramus in A Midnight Summer Dream by good old Willie Shakespeare. I look forward to seeing this thread no more.

 

[aresknights]

Good luck KK.
Good decision by Habs not to match.
Good decision by KK to sign.

Time to move on.

 

[417]

I think there's always that bit of exaggeration. Hughes may not be treated like our #1 D but he certainly wouldn't be in and out of the lineup.

A guy producing that much can't be ignored.

The Habs won't sacrifice offense for defense from Dmen.

Hughes is a great offensive Dman but he's so bad defensively.

Not a fit for how this team plays IMO.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

There are rumors ever since KK signed the offer sheet that the Canes had a 4m deal on the table for january. The league would need proofs that this is real to be considered tampering. So yeah pretty much no chance this happens, even if it might be tampering.

It isn't tampering at all.

People have this misconception KK was our player, he wasn't.

An RFA is like a UFA except with restrictions. None of those restrictions make him signed to us, only that we get some additional rights like the ability to match or retain rights until they sign.

Whatever discussion KK had with Carolina occurred as a Free Agent. The fact that its restricted or unrestricted doesn't have the fact he was a free agent. He could've planned his next 20 years with them and he'd be allowed to.

 

[SakuKoivu11]

It isn't tampering at all.

People have this misconception KK was our player, he wasn't.

An RFA is like a UFA except with restrictions. None of those restrictions make him signed to us, only that we get some additional rights like the ability to match or retain rights until they sign.

Whatever discussion KK had with Carolina occurred as a Free Agent. The fact that its restricted or unrestricted doesn't have the fact he was a free agent. He could've planned his next 20 years with them and he'd be allowed to.

offering RFA a contract is legal. Talking to a RFA extension while rights belong to another team…definition of tampering.

 

[le_sean]

It isn't tampering at all.

People have this misconception KK was our player, he wasn't.

An RFA is like a UFA except with restrictions. None of those restrictions make him signed to us, only that we get some additional rights like the ability to match or retain rights until they sign.

Whatever discussion KK had with Carolina occurred as a Free Agent. The fact that its restricted or unrestricted doesn't have the fact he was a free agent. He could've planned his next 20 years with them and he'd be allowed to.

No he can’t discuss an additional contract. You can’t have those discussions until the final year of the contract. So they aren’t allowed to discuss before he signs the OS.

Imagine I could go to a UFA and say “look we are close to the cap this year. So take $3m for one year and then a year from now we will give you $5m per for 5 years.” That isn’t allowed.

And it’s even less allowed for RFAs because that messes up the entire idea of RFA compensation.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

offering RFA a contract is legal. Talking to a RFA extension while rights belong to another team…definition of tampering.

No he can’t discuss an additional contract. You can’t have those discussions until the final year of the contract. So they aren’t allowed to discuss before he signs the OS.

Imagine I could go to a UFA and say “look we are close to the cap this year. So take $3m for one year and then a year from now we will give you $5m per for 5 years.” That isn’t allowed.

I always thought this was legal and I honestly don't see why it shouldn't be.

As far as I knew you can't SIGN an extension until July 1st/Jan 1st depending but nothing stops you from talking about it earlier.

In any case, tampering or not I don't care and I'm not bothered by it. The way I see it is its not binding until they sign anyway and if KK has a great or bad year their early talk is irrelevant.

I could tell a player I'll give you 3 mil today and I'll give you 10 mil next year and then release him before I do. Not much happens.

 

[le_sean]

I always thought this was legal and I honestly don't see why it shouldn't be.

As far as I knew you can't SIGN an extension until July 1st/Jan 1st depending but nothing stops you from talking about it earlier.

In any case, tampering or not I don't care and I'm not bothered by it. The way I see it is its not binding until they sign anyway and if KK has a great or bad year their early talk is irrelevant.

I could tell a player I'll give you 3 mil today and I'll give you 10 mil next year and then release him before I do. Not much happens.

I think you lose credibility with agents pretty quickly if you back out of a deal like that. And I bet word would travel fast.

And I would say the conversations about potential future deals likely happens, but it won’t be legal. Like I said, it messes up the whole RFA compensation structure.

 

[Colezuki]

On top of that, the draft was during a year where we were still an extremely undersized team, wasn’t a risk that made sense for Habs at the time. Size and a C were what we needed most so if it wasn’t KK, Tkachuk should have been the next consideration

It did come down to Tkachuk, because in the draft video they talk about Kk and they talk about a guy going to the net with power

 

[Habs Halifax]

Ya that's just simply not true. He looked fine next to Tanev and would have looked fine next to Weber who made Mete and many more look much better than they actually were defensively.

It's really not debatable if he would have made this organization. Kid is uber talented, a world class skater and a very smart player. People seem to forget how solid he was defensively in his rookie season but one horendous stretch on an awful Canucks team matters more than anything else.

Hughes's flaw is he can be taken advantage of in his own end. I would not ignore that part of his game and I see it so many times with guys that are offensively gifted. He don't suck in that area but he can be taken advantage of in the trenches. But his regular season performances will look very solid. It's when the going gets tough is where he can be a target in his own end. He can't handle the big boys

 

[Habs Halifax]

No he can’t discuss an additional contract. You can’t have those discussions until the final year of the contract. So they aren’t allowed to discuss before he signs the OS.

Imagine I could go to a UFA and say “look we are close to the cap this year. So take $3m for one year and then a year from now we will give you $5m per for 5 years.” That isn’t allowed.

And it’s even less allowed for RFAs because that messes up the entire idea of RFA compensation.

I'm not sure about that one. I don't believe there is nothing stopping the player and GM from talking about possible future contracts or hypothetical situations before anything is signed. All part of the dialog and good luck policing that.

 

[GrandBison]

I think you lose credibility with agents pretty quickly if you back out of a deal like that. And I bet word would travel fast.

And I would say the conversations about potential future deals likely happens, but it won’t be legal. Like I said, it messes up the whole RFA compensation structure.

They could talk about future, but can not agree on a deal.

The rule I find unfair is the full year trade ban. It makes no sense when the offersheet is a one year contract. Maybe Bergevin would have match if there was a possibility to trade kk at the deadline or at the draft, which is possible for Carolina.