Tribute Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Goodbye and Good Luck part II

[Bacchus1]

Which part? If you mean that one of his demands was to get Olofsson there? Maybe I remembered it slightly incorrectly. The main part is correct and the wife and kid he later moved to Thailand with , that wife was the former wife of one of my teachers. and they moved back to Sweden and he has retired The other guy Olofsson is one of the most well-known crooks in Sweden. He actually moved to Belgium and not the Netherlands so that was incorrect as well.

The other details were that you wrote break-in rather than bank robbery ... maybe translation. Also, no cop died. A cop was grazed in the hand, but he was only injured. That one was major as you mentioned it was the first cop killed since 1916 or something like that.

Details ... it was a long time ago, and the mind plays tricks, I guess.

Anyway, still, great story. Thanks for sharing

 

[Garbageyuk]

I knew he was gone one way or another, I just thought it would be via trade. It was clear management was done with him. I can't say I have much faith in him turning it around in Carolina; I think this gamble will burn them by next summer. I said many times it looked as if he has attitude/entitlement issues, and this whole fiasco and the reports surrounding it confirms all of it. Good riddance.

 

[Mandala]

I knew he was gone one way or another, I just thought it would be via trade. It was clear management was done with him. I can't say I have much faith in him turning it around in Carolina; I think this gamble will burn them by next summer. I said many times it looked as if he has attitude/entitlement issues, and this whole fiasco and the reports surrounding it confirms all of it. Good riddance.

Or he just wanted out to play with Aho in Carolina. We should find out soon if he can find a next gear in Carolina.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Or he just wanted out to play with Aho in Carolina. We should find out soon if he can find a next gear in Carolina.

I think he wanted out because he thinks he's better than he is, doesn't want to listen to the coaches, and he doesn't want to put the work in to improve his deficiencies. He probably thinks it's going to be easy in Carolina because of Aho, Teravainen, Svechnikov, etc. That, and the 6M. We'll see who's right soon enough.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Why would it be tampering? Teams have a right to talk to RFAs when they're up for renewal (after July 1st, usually). Whether for one year or more, further contracts could've been talked about in all legality.

I genuinely have no idea where all this tampering talk is coming from. I guess we're just trained to consider RFAs as team property given offer sheets are so rare but RFAs are still free agents free to talk to any club.

I'm unsure about the exact rules. Are you allowed talking to a RFA that is owned by another team or are you just allowed to submit an offer sheet with no communication?

RFAs are free agents, they are technically not "owned" by their existing teams any longer. Once his contract expires he's an NHL free agent and free to talk with other NHL clubs, and it's perfectly legal for any team to discuss multiple ideas for a contract, or work on a 1 year deal while having rough talks about extensions, etc. The only privilege you have as the team holding his RFA rights is you have the right to match any offer sheet he signs, that's it.

Otherwise it's the same as any other free agent. Carolina and every other team in the league was free to discuss a contract in detail and have any contract talks they wanted with Kotkaniemi, the same way every team in the league was free to do the same with Mike Hoffman.

What I recall about the Aho offer sheet is we structured a lot of signing bonus money in and how did they come up with that strategy? A wild shot in the dark or were they talking to Aho's agent and found out that the Canes were not willing to offer signing bonus?

I'm guessing that you are allowed to have dialog with other team's RFA's but not 100% sure. The tampering narrative is with the understanding (true or not) that you are only allowed to submit an offer sheet with no dialog.

Yeah they were 100% talking with Aho's agent. Again it's perfectly legal to have in depth discussion with RFAs because they're NHL free agents. They're not under contract with any team so it can't be tampering.

 

[JoelWarlord]

i truly hope they sign him for 4 mill in January and the habs file a complaint of tampering and they f*** the canes and dundon with a fine and compensation for Mtl

What are you talking about? There is no tampering here, they talked with an NHL free agent, tendered him an offer sheet, and throughout that entire process they were free to discuss rough frameworks for a future extension. It is not tampering in the slightest for Carolina to extend their own player after having rough talks in the summer when Kotkaniemi was a free agent.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

This is from the CBA under the exhibit for Standard Player’s Contract:

The Club and the Player represent and warrant that there are no undisclosed agreements of any kind, express or implied, oral or written and that there are no promises, undertakings, representations, commitments, inducements, assurances of intent, supplements or understandings of any kind between the Player or his Certified Agent and the Club that have not been disclosed to the NHL, with regard to: (i) any consideration of any kind to be paid, furnished or made available during the term of the SPC or thereafter; and/or (ii) and future renegotiation, extension, amendment or termination of this SPC.

Not sure how this applies, it says "warrant that there are no undisclosed". Carolina could simply disclose their contract talks to the NHL. He was a free agent, they can spitball anything at the moment.

 

[JoelWarlord]

This is from the CBA under the exhibit for Standard Player’s Contract:

The Club and the Player represent and warrant that there are no undisclosed agreements of any kind, express or implied, oral or written and that there are no promises, undertakings, representations, commitments, inducements, assurances of intent, supplements or understandings of any kind between the Player or his Certified Agent and the Club that have not been disclosed to the NHL, with regard to: (i) any consideration of any kind to be paid, furnished or made available during the term of the SPC or thereafter; and/or (ii) and future renegotiation, extension, amendment or termination of this SPC.

This has nothing to do with tampering. Tampering refers to talking contracts with a player signed to another team which Kotkaniemi was not. What Carolina did doesn't break this rule, but even if they did it would not be tampering. All this means is you can't work out a supplementary income or promise your own company will sponsor the player to compete with another team's offer that's a million higher etc., and it means you can't agree to details on an extension before the allowed timeline. Carolina signing him to an extension of the first date is not evidence of a pre-arranged agreement nor could it possibly be tampering. It's not against the rules for Carolina to have rough ideas of what an extension would look like, and then for Kotkaniemi to sign a market value deal in January.

Do you think the Canadiens didn't talk about rough ideas on an extension with Perreault when he signed the one year deal? It's not against the rules for the Canadiens to tell Perreault "if things go well we'd consider an extension around 2-3 years in the 1.5 range", nor is it against the rules for the Hurricanes to do the same with Kotkaniemi. You can not commit to details or agree to the extension before January, but there's nothing that makes it against the rules to say "yeah we're thinking about something in the mid 4s but we'll figure it out the details when we get there".

This happens all the time in the NHL. I have no idea where people are getting this idea it's against the rules to even remotely broach the subject of a future contract.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

This has nothing to do with tampering. Tampering refers to talking contracts with a player signed to another team which Kotkaniemi was not. What Carolina did doesn't break this rule, but even if they did it would not be tampering. All this means is you can't work out a supplementary income or promise your own company will sponsor the player to compete with another team's offer that's a million higher etc., and it means you can't agree to details on an extension before the allowed timeline. Carolina signing him to an extension of the first date is not evidence of a pre-arranged agreement nor could it possibly be tampering. It's not against the rules for Carolina to have rough ideas of what an extension would look like, and then for Kotkaniemi to sign a market value deal in January.

Do you think the Canadiens didn't talk about rough ideas on an extension with Perreault when he signed the one year deal? It's not against the rules for the Canadiens to tell Perreault "if things go well we'd consider an extension around 2-3 years in the 1.5 range", nor is it against the rules for the Hurricanes to do the same with Kotkaniemi. You can not commit to details or agree to the extension before January, but there's nothing that makes it against the rules to say "yeah we're thinking about something in the mid 4s but we'll figure it out the details when we get there".

This happens all the time in the NHL. I have no idea where people are getting this idea it's against the rules to even remotely broach the subject of a future contract.

A need for revenge and a hefty dose of wishful thinking.

 

[Heffyhoof]

So which is it , does he have inside information or is he not close to the organization? It's hard to imagine that both these things aren't mutually exclusive.

It wouldn't be a hard guess either that a 3rd overall who's scratched in the finals might be a sign of something brewing...

Let's just say that the report could have been anything(misbehaviour,mafia,drugs...) and some here would have still eaten it up with zero doubt...

The real question for me is how many 1st round fumbles are the Habs allowed before we stop automatically pointing the finger at the player?

Infinite. Haven't you read all the conveniently timed articles about how it's the player's fault and that we were all fooled into thinking he had character? Also Dredger is %100 on the Toronto payroll and would never ever ever ever ever be sympathetic to one of the other billion dollar franchises that's the most storied of the sport he's a 'journalist' for.

 

[DAChampion]

Infinite. Haven't you read all the conveniently timed articles about how it's the player's fault and that we were all fooled into thinking he had character? Also Dredger is %100 on the Toronto payroll and would never ever ever ever ever be sympathetic to one of the other billion dollar franchises that's the most storied of the sport he's a 'journalist' for.

Anytime a Habs player is let go we get a ton of stories about their flawed character, and people believe it.

 

[Wats]

Anytime a Habs player is let go we get a ton of stories about their flawed character, and people believe it.

It's really funny how it's literally every time someone leaves the organization. Be it a coach or player, character assassination pieces are sure to follow.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Anytime a Habs player is let go we get a ton of stories about their flawed character, and people believe it.

Subban, Radulov, Markov, Galchenyuk, KK. They've all had the blame treatment one way or another after they left.

 

[1909]

It's really funny how it's literally every time someone leaves the organization. Be it a coach or player, character assassination pieces are sure to follow.

Reporters ask questions. Coaches answers them. Period. No big deal.

 

[1909]

This has nothing to do with tampering. Tampering refers to talking contracts with a player signed to another team which Kotkaniemi was not. What Carolina did doesn't break this rule, but even if they did it would not be tampering. All this means is you can't work out a supplementary income or promise your own company will sponsor the player to compete with another team's offer that's a million higher etc., and it means you can't agree to details on an extension before the allowed timeline. Carolina signing him to an extension of the first date is not evidence of a pre-arranged agreement nor could it possibly be tampering. It's not against the rules for Carolina to have rough ideas of what an extension would look like, and then for Kotkaniemi to sign a market value deal in January.

Do you think the Canadiens didn't talk about rough ideas on an extension with Perreault when he signed the one year deal? It's not against the rules for the Canadiens to tell Perreault "if things go well we'd consider an extension around 2-3 years in the 1.5 range", nor is it against the rules for the Hurricanes to do the same with Kotkaniemi. You can not commit to details or agree to the extension before January, but there's nothing that makes it against the rules to say "yeah we're thinking about something in the mid 4s but we'll figure it out the details when we get there".

This happens all the time in the NHL. I have no idea where people are getting this idea it's against the rules to even remotely broach the subject of a future contract.

What should be against the rule is getting out an offer sheet to a 21 y old kid and having his salary sky rocketting from under 1 milion to 6,1 without any stats supporting it.

 

[Habs Icing]

100% true. He tries to behave humbly in front of the media, but has never fooled me. He's considered an arrogant prick in his hometown.

How do we know this?

BTW I'm not a KK fanboy. I didn't think much of his hockey skills - the few he had. But this is another matter. You're slandering him. So I ask how do you know this.

 

[DAChampion]

Reporters ask questions. Coaches answers them. Period. No big deal.

Yeah -- that's the entire story.

 

[puckeater]

Yeah goodbye already. Jesperi who?

 

[MrNasty]

Subban, Radulov, Markov, Galchenyuk, KK. They've all had the blame treatment one way or another after they left.

It's really funny how it's literally every time someone leaves the organization. Be it a coach or player, character assassination pieces are sure to follow.

To be fair. Neither Markov or Radulov had their character assassinated. Markov tried to negotiate a deal without an agent and Radulov went for the bigger money after Montreal gave him a chance to return to the NHL. I think Markov ended up regretting it. Yes, Subban and Galchenyuk were accused of having character issues and that has followed them with other teams. Time will tell if that is the case with KK.

I don't however recall Tatar, Mete, Eller, Juulsen, Fleury or any other guys getting their character assassinated.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

To be fair. Neither Markov or Radulov had their character assassinated. Markov tried to negotiate a deal without an agent and Radulov went for the bigger money after Montreal gave him a chance to return to the NHL. I think Markov ended up regretting it. Yes, Subban and Galchenyuk were accused of having character issues and that has followed them with other teams. Time will tell if that is the case with KK.

I don't however recall Tatar, Mete, Eller, Juulsen, Fleury or any other guys getting their character assassinated.

Yeah they did. First it was the "playing cards on the airplane after the series lost vs NY". And then the loyal dog comments on Radulov. Then the stud comment comparing negatively his old dmen (Subban, Emelin, Markov) to morgan reilly and how his new D was so much better.

Notice that aside from Tatar, all the others you named flew under the radar compared to those I named. Seriously, it seems the Habs PR want to destroy the attachment we have to players who have left so we'll accept the new guys or the decisions themselves.

 

[JoelWarlord]

What should be against the rule is getting out an offer sheet to a 21 y old kid and having his salary sky rocketting from under 1 milion to 6,1 without any stats supporting it.

Why? They feel he's worth it at that price for a year, and if you truly believe he's not even close to a $6.1M player then a 1st and 3rd round pick is more than fair compensation. The compensation structure for offer sheets is generally very friendly to the team losing the player, so I don't see any reason to impose arbitrary limitations on how much the salary can change. If the idea any team can massively overpay your guy makes you uncomfortable as a GM, try giving the player a 2x3.5M good faith offer and make him feel like he's a part of the future of your organization instead of trying to scrape every penny on important young players by gouging him on RFA leverage. There's risks involved with throwing insulting offers at every RFA, and this is one of them.

Carolina thinks they got a guy who can be a 3C/2LW for them this year, and they're gambling on overpaying him this year in the hopes he can be their long term 2C when Trocheck leaves and that he'll be willing to stay long term at a lower number. If they're wrong, they gave up a 1st and a 3rd in a competitive window and capped out for an ego trip. If they're right, they got a nice deal on a peripheral core piece and are set up at center with Aho and Kotkaniemi for years.

Not to mention that we cheer for the 3rd richest franchise in hockey. Why are you only viewing it through the lens of another team hurting Montreal? This franchise prints money and can offer 8 figure signing bonuses without having to think for a second. Why would a Habs fan want the league to diminish our own team's opportunities to leverage its massive financial power?

 

[aresknights]

What are you talking about? There is no tampering here, they talked with an NHL free agent, tendered him an offer sheet, and throughout that entire process they were free to discuss rough frameworks for a future extension. It is not tampering in the slightest for Carolina to extend their own player after having rough talks in the summer when Kotkaniemi was a free agent.

This how I understand it as well but I've been wrong before and will be again lol.

 

[Heffyhoof]

What should be against the rule is getting out an offer sheet to a 21 y old kid and having his salary sky rocketting from under 1 milion to 6,1 without any stats supporting it.

Just go the whole way and do away with offer sheets in total then. 'I don't like the fact the rules are structured to allow offer sheets a degree of success, there should be a near %0 chance one ever works.'

 

[Wats]

What should be against the rule is getting out an offer sheet to a 21 y old kid and having his salary sky rocketting from under 1 milion to 6,1 without any stats supporting it.

I wish the offersheet didn't happen but if a team wants to risk paying that much + compensation for just potential then that alone is fair game. Habs can do the same/should have re-signed him sooner. Being a free agent lets the player sign with anyone.

 

[FF de Mars]

I don't want to sound harsh but this summer I watched Ragnarok on netflix and the villan's son, a mythological giant, was constantly reminding me of Kotkaniemi. That was before the whole saga.