Player Discussion Jeremy Swayman II - still waiting

[UncleRico]

Sweeney and co want in the low 6s and swayman is in the mid 8s?

I feel like low 6s is unreasonably low, that can’t be true either sounds just as fake as $10m

That would make him the 8th highest paid goalie next year and out of the top 10 in 2 years with other goalie contracts.

That doesn’t even feel like a serious offer.

 

[analyser]

Sweeney and co want in the low 6s and swayman is in the mid 8s?

I feel like low 6s is unreasonably low, that can’t be true either sounds just as fake as $10m

That would make him the 8th highest paid goalie next year and out of the top 10 in 2 years with other goalie contracts.

That doesn’t even feel like a serious offer.

Should they agree on a bridge deal 6 mil would be a realistic figure. I am not saying they should go in this direction but it could very well happen.

 

[DominicT]

I love Court but I have to disagree that it is too late in the process to start negotiating a Jarvis type deal.

I checked the CBA. The words "deferred salary" and "deferred bonuses" appears 116 times.

I find it hard to believe that Evan Gold is unaware that it exists. I knew it existed but I never thought it would be used. So I am pretty sure Gold knows about it.

Good Ole Frank, when he broke the news of the Jarvis deal said it took two months to negotiate the deal. There is so much that can go wrong for both sides. Frank also stated that the deferred salary/bonuses have come up in several other negotiations this summer.

So, I would not be surprised if it has come up in the Swayman negotiations.

 

[Hookslide]

Should they agree on a bridge deal 6 mil would be a realistic figure. I am not saying they should go in this direction but it could very well happen.

Let me give you my working stiff analogy, if the Bruins were to give Swayman, 7 mil a year that is better than a 50% increase, go ask your boss if he would give a 50 % increase, and I am sure he would say do not let door hit you in the ass on the way out. Pasta and McAvoy did not receive increases of 50 %. I think most of us who post on this board want Swayman signed, and are big supporters of him, but also feel some of support is starting to slip away.

 

[Mr. Make-Believe]

I love Court but I have to disagree that it is too late in the process to start negotiating a Jarvis type deal.

I checked the CBA. The words "deferred salary" and "deferred bonuses" appears 116 times.

I find it hard to believe that Evan Gold is unaware that it exists. I knew it existed but I never thought it would be used. So I am pretty sure Gold knows about it.

Good Ole Frank, when he broke the news of the Jarvis deal said it took two months to negotiate the deal. There is so much that can go wrong for both sides. Frank also stated that the deferred salary/bonuses have come up in several other negotiations this summer.

So, I would not be surprised if it has come up in the Swayman negotiations.

I have a lot of questions surrounding this deferred salary... Stuff.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Let me give you my working stiff analogy, if the Bruins were to give Swayman, 7 mil a year that is better than a 50% increase, go ask your boss if he would give a 50 % increase, and I am sure he would say do not let door hit you in the ass on the way out. Pasta and McAvoy did not receive increases of 50 %. I think most of us who post on this board want Swayman signed, and are big supporters of him, but also feel some of support is starting to slip away.

Working stiff analogies don't work.
Does your business have an agreement with its workers to give a guaranteed % of revenue as salary?
Does your business restrict you from taking a better job from someone else for 10 years?
Does your business have the right to trade you to another company 4,000 miles from your family?
Has your boss given other people a 100% increase in salary this year or last, including workers who don't do their job as good as you do?
Has your boss give out 100% increase in salary to people who have never even worked a day for your company?

 

[dredeye]

Who is their other option?

Korpisalo and Bussi unless you also get a goalie back as part of the trade. If his demands are way too high I’m fine moving him. Obviously not ideal but better than overpaying. This is why it should have been done way earlier

 

[Hookslide]

Working stiff analogies don't work.
Does your business have an agreement with its workers to give a guaranteed % of revenue as salary?
Does your business restrict you from taking a better job from someone else for 10 years?
Does your business have the right to trade you to another company 4,000 miles from your family?
Has your boss given other people a 100% increase in salary this year or last, including workers who don't do their job as good as you do?
Has your boss give out 100% increase in salary to people who have never even worked a day for your company?

Hey DR. Quincy, I was just trying to make a point, and your post makes ZERO SENSE. I, might also add that show sucked ...........I also would say you do not know much about working stiffs.

 

[DominicT]

I have a lot of questions surrounding this deferred salary... Stuff.

Tomorrow's pod will cover it all in detail. I promise.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

Let me give you my working stiff analogy, if the Bruins were to give Swayman, 7 mil a year that is better than a 50% increase, go ask your boss if he would give a 50 % increase, and I am sure he would say do not let door hit you in the ass on the way out. Pasta and McAvoy did not receive increases of 50 %. I think most of us who post on this board want Swayman signed, and are big supporters of him, but also feel some of support is starting to slip away.

Now do Brock Faber, Quinton Byfield, and Seth Jarvis.

 

[DominicT]

Working stiff analogies don't work.
Does your business have an agreement with its workers to give a guaranteed % of revenue as salary?
Does your business restrict you from taking a better job from someone else for 10 years?
Does your business have the right to trade you to another company 4,000 miles from your family?
Has your boss given other people a 100% increase in salary this year or last, including workers who don't do their job as good as you do?
Has your boss give out 100% increase in salary to people who have never even worked a day for your company?

Has your boss ever given you a signing bonus that is more than most people will earn in a lifetime?
Does your boss withhold part of your salary each pay in the event the company doesn't meet expected revenues?

 

[Dr Hook]

I never have gotten the comparables to a "regular" job when it comes to pro athletes. It never works.

 

[bb74]

Figure Sway wants around 8.5 x 6 years - and - payment protection from a lockout - eg signing bonus as opposed to salary and specific language, plus a nmc. My guess is B’s want 7 x 7 and less protection or up front money.

B’s lost a lot of leverage in dealing Ullmark but I’d expect this to end up around 8x6 with a little up front and a limited nmc.

Big question is does Bussi get a deal and backup or do we lose an upcoming stud on waivers to protect K.

 

[UncleRico]

Should they agree on a bridge deal 6 mil would be a realistic figure. I am not saying they should go in this direction but it could very well happen.

Why would swayman accept $6m a year? He’s one of the top goalies in the league and $6m would put him in a 3 way tie for 9th highest paid goalie.

By the end of even a bridge deal he will be probably 12th -15th highest paid goalie at $6m.


I don’t want to say it’s impossible, but I highly highly doubt he takes that low of a figure.

 

[Dr Quincy]

Has your boss ever given you a signing bonus that is more than most people will earn in a lifetime?
Does your boss withhold part of your salary each pay in the event the company doesn't meet expected revenues?

I hope not... my organization generates no revenues at all!

 

[Dr Hook]

Why would swayman accept $6m a year? He’s one of the top goalies in the league and $6m would put him in a 3 way tie for 9th highest paid goalie.

By the end of even a bridge deal he will be probably 12th -15th highest paid goalie at $6m.


I don’t want to say it’s impossible, but I highly highly doubt he takes that low of a figure.

You're right, I think. He doesn't have to take that low of an offer and he won't. Both sides have some leverage here and I believe most of us know how those line up on either side. If I had to make a guess, he comes in mid 7s to 8 AAV with some lockout protection in there, and a less than max term.

 

[Kegs]

Let me give you my working stiff analogy, if the Bruins were to give Swayman, 7 mil a year that is better than a 50% increase, go ask your boss if he would give a 50 % increase, and I am sure he would say do not let door hit you in the ass on the way out. Pasta and McAvoy did not receive increases of 50 %. I think most of us who post on this board want Swayman signed, and are big supporters of him, but also feel some of support is starting to slip away.

Entertainers are in a different category than working stiffs.

 

[UncleRico]

Let me give you my working stiff analogy, if the Bruins were to give Swayman, 7 mil a year that is better than a 50% increase, go ask your boss if he would give a 50 % increase, and I am sure he would say do not let door hit you in the ass on the way out. Pasta and McAvoy did not receive increases of 50 %. I think most of us who post on this board want Swayman signed, and are big supporters of him, but also feel some of support is starting to slip away.

Pasta went from $925k to $6.6m

McAvoy went from $1.2m to $4.9m

Both well over 50% on their first contracts that they were able to really negotiate.

 

[RoccoF14]

Do we not all agree that we reasonably would predict Swayman as being a top goaltender in the league for the foreseeable future? Like… if you were to make a prediction, where do you see him for the next five seasons? Top ten at his position? Top five?

I believe most of us would have him there. I believe Sweeney would have him there. I know Swayman believes he’s among the best at his position and will be for some time.

So unless you predict otherwise, why are so many demonizing Swayman for negotiating himself a contract that reflects the expectations? If you hate him for that, then there can’t be many players you like - because that’s what happens in every single contract negotiation.

Not demonizing him at all. I just have a philosophical view that you don't spend a ton of money on goaltending, especially goaltenders with "potential". I may be an outlier, but I just don't value the position in general, as much as some other people do. If you think he's gonna be the next Hasek or Brodeur, then sure you consider it. But I think its way too early to be throwing that amount of money at a guy who basically performed that same as Ullmark in the regular season and got hot in one playoff series. That's not worth an extra $3-5mil in my opinion.

I got nothing against Swayman, and yes, I do think he COULD be a top 5 goalie over the next 5 seasons. I could have also been persuaded to say the same thing about Devan Dubnyk, Jordan Binnington, Carter Hart and Jake Oettinger in previous years.

I just think goaltender performance is very dependent on the team in front of him. That's where I'd rather spend my money. I'd rather have a top 10-12 guy on a reasonable contract ($4-6mil) than spend big money on a potential top 5 guy who's only gonna play 50-60 games and will maybe give up one less goal every 6 or 7 games he plays.

Feel free to disagree.

 

[BTO]

Sweeney and co want in the low 6s and swayman is in the mid 8s?

I feel like low 6s is unreasonably low, that can’t be true either sounds just as fake as $10m

That would make him the 8th highest paid goalie next year and out of the top 10 in 2 years with other goalie contracts.

That doesn’t even feel like a serious offer.

Yup, 6 is as ridiculous as 10. 7 is too low and 9 is too high, so pay him 8 and be done with it (whatever the term is). They have the cap space for 8 and the cap will only go up. Why make things more difficult than they have to be? But what do I know lol.

 

[RoccoF14]

Why not?

See my post above.....

 

[analyser]

Why would swayman accept $6m a year? He’s one of the top goalies in the league and $6m would put him in a 3 way tie for 9th highest paid goalie.

By the end of even a bridge deal he will be probably 12th -15th highest paid goalie at $6m.


I don’t want to say it’s impossible, but I highly highly doubt he takes that low of a figure.

Somehow it has to be resolved and this is just an available option. Who knows what will happen.

 

[Over the volcano]

I hope not... my organization generates no revenues at all!

That's because you do real work

 

[SwayHeyKid]

Not demonizing him at all. I just have a philosophical view that you don't spend a ton a money on goaltending, especially goaltenders with "potential". I may be an outlier, but I just don't value the position in general, as much as some other people do. If you think he's gonna be the next Hasek or Brodeur, then sure you consider it. But I think its way too early to be throwing that amount of money at a guy who basically performed that same as Ullmark in the regular season and got hot in one playoff series. That's not worth an extra $3-5mil in my opinion.

I got nothing against Swayman, and yes, I do think he COULD be a top 5 goalie over the next 5 seasons. I could have also been persuaded to say the same thing about Devan Dubnyk, Jordan Binnington, Carter Hart and Jake Oettinger in previous years.

I just think goaltender performance is very dependent on the team in front of him. That's where I'd rather spend my money. I'd rather have a top 10-12 guy on a reasonable contract ($4-6mil) than spend big money on a potential top 5 guy who's only gonna play 50-60 games and will maybe give up one less goal every 6 or 7 games he plays.

Feel free to disagree.

Did you not like Rasks deal?

 

[Dr Hook]

Not demonizing him at all. I just have a philosophical view that you don't spend a ton a money on goaltending, especially goaltenders with "potential". I may be an outlier, but I just don't value the position in general, as much as some other people do. If you think he's gonna be the next Hasek or Brodeur, then sure you consider it. But I think its way too early to be throwing that amount of money at a guy who basically performed that same as Ullmark in the regular season and got hot in one playoff series. That's not worth an extra $3-5mil in my opinion.

I got nothing against Swayman, and yes, I do think he COULD be a top 5 goalie over the next 5 seasons. I could have also been persuaded to say the same thing about Devan Dubnyk, Jordan Binnington, Carter Hart and Jake Oettinger in previous years.

I just think goaltender performance is very dependent on the team in front of him. That's where I'd rather spend my money. I'd rather have a top 10-12 guy on a reasonable contract ($4-6mil) than spend big money on a potential top 5 guy who's only gonna play 50-60 games and will maybe give up one less goal every 6 or 7 games he plays.

Feel free to disagree.

This is an interesting point of view and has some real merit. I would throw money at Swayman to a point, but we've also all seen well-built teams have great success with average goaltending. If we consider the range of ability of the NHL starter level goalie, some are better than others, but they are all good at what they do. Does a Cup contending team still contend with a Korpisalo over a Swayman? Or whatever examples you pick. I am inclined to agree with you most of the way here, though I do think Swayman coming in between 7 and 8 with some term is not overspending on the position.