Player Discussion Jeremy Swayman II - still waiting

[BigBadBruins7708]

Yep and he had more than a season of being the number 1 goalie by then. He took over for injured Thomas in 2010 before giving it back to Timmy the next two years. Then obviously was starter the year before he signed

He didnt though. 2010 was split time, he started 39 games that year. 2013 while technically a starter's load, it isnt anything more than Swayman has done to this point since it was a shortened season in which he started 34 games (out of 48).

The one thing Rask had at the time of his deal that Swayman doesn't is the Finals run and that's as much about team quality as it is quality of play.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

No you don't. Team makes an offer, player makes a counter offer. They then proceed to negotiate. Comps are used for arbitration to convince an impartial judge what they deserve in pay. As both sides are biased with their comps and will not be swayed by any one the other side uses, they are irrelevant. The team and the player know exactly what the market is with no comps needed, so now they're playing the game of how do I get the player for less than the going rate and the player is trying to get the team to pay more than market value.

How do you know what market value or going rate is without using comps?

 

[NDiesel]

He didnt though. 2010 was split time, he started 39 games that year. 2013 while technically a starter's load, it isnt anything more than Swayman has done to this point since it was a shortened season in which he started 34 games (out of 48).

The one thing Rask had at the time of his deal that Swayman doesn't is the Finals run and that's as much about team quality as it is quality of play.

Yeah I stand corrected my bad

 

[Dr Quincy]

Giving him 8 years is risky unless its a lower cap number ~ under 8

Four years at $6.5 allows him to prove he can handle workload and lead a team to a Cup

This also allows him to live where he wants


Haha

Was talking to Eric about this

Sway is bright I bet he would do very well in any school but the Bruins guys are all Ivy League economic, finance, and law background

Sway
1. Focus on hockey
2. Don’t shit on your biggest fans

If a gm a traded a vezina winner for a 3m cap dump and a late 1st WITHOUT knowing if the guy they had could handle the load...

said GM needs to be fired immediately.

 

[Seidenbergy]

The one thing Rask had at the time of his deal that Swayman doesn't is the Finals run and that's as much about team quality as it is quality of play.

Call me when swayman goes 8-0 in the eastern conf finals with 7 TOTAL goals against.

 

[Absurdity]

The magic number will be around 8M and term at 6 years. I worry that one GM will offer Swayman an offer sheet that Sweeney will have to match.

The Cap is the creation of Jeremy Jacobs - 20 years ago there was no season mainly because Jacobs was fed up with Mike Ilitch willing to lose money to win a Cup.

Today can Sweeney make the numbers work?

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I think the Bruins match that offer, but two 1st’s, one 2nd, and one 3rd round pick for a goaltender that hasn't played a full season yet makes you think.

 

[LSCII]

How do you know what market value or going rate is without using comps?

Because everyone knows what the CBA says and what top players in the league get in terms of AAV?

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

Because everyone knows what the CBA says and what top players in the league get in terms of AAV?

I don’t understand what the CBA would have to do with market value or going rate. Or what McDavid or Mackinnon get, much less Shesterkin. How does any of that help determine what the going rate is for Swayman?

 

[UncleRico]

Call me when swayman goes 8-0 in the eastern conf finals with 7 TOTAL goals against.

Tough to do when the team in front of swayman can’t get the puck out of their own zone

 

[dugg133]

The magic number will be around 8M and term at 6 years. I worry that one GM will offer Swayman an offer sheet that Sweeney will have to match.

The Cap is the creation of Jeremy Jacobs - 20 years ago there was no season mainly because Jacobs was fed up with Mike Ilitch willing to lose money to win a Cup.

Today can Sweeney make the numbers work?

Boston Bruins Contracts, Cap Hits and Salary Cap | Puckpedia

See the cap space, latest contracts, injury news, and transactions for the Boston Bruins including salaries, cap hits, buyouts and draft picks on PuckPedia.

puckpedia.com

I'm no cap expert or anything, but I've been messing around on PuckPedia and I believe we can make basically any number work up to around 9.5mil work. We'd need to send Korpisalo to Providence, have Bussi as the backup, and run a 22 man roster, but it'd be possible. If Swayman is deadset on 10mil I think we'd need to shed salary somehow. Maybe they could play the waivers game with Peeke like we did with Foligno in 2022 and get enough cap relief that way?

 

[DKH]

If a gm a traded a vezina winner for a 3m cap dump and a late 1st WITHOUT knowing if the guy they had could handle the load...

said GM needs to be fired immediately.

lol

Shouldn’t you be removing gum from under desks and sharpening #2 pencils

 

[Dr Quincy]

lol

Shouldn’t you be removing gum from under desks and sharpening #2 pencils

What is this 1947?

 

[LSCII]

I don’t understand what the CBA would have to do with market value or going rate. Or what McDavid or Mackinnon get, much less Shesterkin. How does any of that help determine what the going rate is for Swayman?

CBA sets the ASL for the players, the process of RFA status, and what the options are. It's literally the framework they're operating under for this entire process, no?

As for what the going rates are for players, the highest paid players in the league make 10-12.6 mill today in terms of AAV ,regardless of position. If the Bruins don't view him as a top player in the league and don't want to pay him as one, it's up to them to negotiate a deal that they're comfortable with or trade him. Either way, comparing him to the top paid goalies or the top paid players is completely arbitrary because it's still on the team and player to negotiate with each other to reach a deal since they both opted to not go to arbitration.

The Bruins could literally pick the worst goalie in the league as a comp and Swayman's team could pick the best, and neither of those would matter because neither side is going to agree with the other sides assessments. It's on them to negotiate a deal both are amenable to or move on. Simple as that.

 

[Fenian24]

What is this 1947?

The way some people want to pay Swayman it may be.

 

[DominicT]

I'm no cap expert or anything, but I've been messing around on PuckPedia and I believe we can make basically any number work up to around 9.5mil work. We'd need to send Korpisalo to Providence, have Bussi as the backup, and run a 22 man roster, but it'd be possible. If Swayman is deadset on 10mil I think we'd need to shed salary somehow. Maybe they could play the waivers game with Peeke like we did with Foligno in 2022 and get enough cap relief that way?

They can make $10 million work

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

CBA sets the ASL for the players, the process of RFA status, and what the options are. It's literally the framework they're operating under for this entire process, no?

As for what the going rates are for players, the highest paid players in the league make 10-12.6 mill today in terms of AAV ,regardless of position. If the Bruins don't view him as a top player in the league and don't want to pay him as one, it's up to them to negotiate a deal that they're comfortable with or trade him. Either way, comparing him to the top paid goalies or the top paid players is completely arbitrary because it's still on the team and player to negotiate with each other to reach a deal since they both opted to not go to arbitration.

The Bruins could literally pick the worst goalie in the league as a comp and Swayman's team could pick the best, and neither of those would matter because neither side is going to agree with the other sides assessments. It's on them to negotiate a deal both are amenable to or move on. Simple as that.

In the top 100 of AAV for this coming year, there are 63 forwards, 32 D, and 5 goalies. There is no "regardless of position". What Mackinnon or Panarin or Matthews get paid has absolutely nothing to do with what goalies are paid, other that they're governed by the same CBA (not sure why that needs to be said, but following along with you). Apparently there's no convincing you that comps don't have anything to do with pay (despite the fact that you used your own comps in the paragraph above), but even Swayman himself said he can't screw up the market for the next group of goalies coming behind him. Why would he say that?

 

[EverettMike]

I think the Bruins match that offer, but two 1st’s, one 2nd, and one 3rd round pick for a goaltender that hasn't played a full season yet makes you think.

It makes me think they'd be insane to accept that package for Swayman.

 

[Bruinfanatic]

They can make $10 million work

But they shouldn’t .

 

[NDiesel]

I think the Bruins match that offer, but two 1st’s, one 2nd, and one 3rd round pick for a goaltender that hasn't played a full season yet makes you think.

It's a nice offer but given their current roster I don't see how giving up a core player for only picks would make sense. Sure they can flip those picks, but you better get a top 6C back if you move on from him

 

[TD Charlie]

It's a nice offer but given their current roster I don't see how giving up a core player for only picks would make sense. Sure they can flip those picks, but you better get a top 6C back if you move on from him

It doesn't, at all.

 

[dugg133]

They can make $10 million work

How? The following roster leaves them with 9.7mil in space according to PuckPedia's roster builder:

Zacha-Lindholm-Pasta
Marchand-Coyle-Lysell
Frederic-Poitras-Geekie
Jones-Beecher-Kastelic

Lindholm-Mac
Zadorov-Carlo
Lohrei-Peeke

xxxxx/Bussi

Brazeau, Wotherspoon as the only extras.

Can maybe scrap together another like 200k by sending Kastelic and Lysell down and replacing them with league min guys, but besides that I don't see where the fat is to trim.

 

[UncleRico]

8x8.75 and call it a day

 

[ON3M4N]

In the top 100 of AAV for this coming year, there are 63 forwards, 32 D, and 5 goalies. There is no "regardless of position". What Mackinnon or Panarin or Matthews get paid has absolutely nothing to do with what goalies are paid, other that they're governed by the same CBA (not sure why that needs to be said, but following along with you). Apparently there's no convincing you that comps don't have anything to do with pay (despite the fact that you used your own comps in the paragraph above), but even Swayman himself said he can't screw up the market for the next group of goalies coming behind him. Why would he say that?

You kind of left the first part of his comment out of this. His full statement was.....

"I understand the cap is going up and where it will be in years. I understand my comparables and how I can’t ruin the goalie market for other guys that are going to be in my shoes down the line."

The "not ruining the goalie market" comment was him basically saying that his contract could/will be used for other goalies/teams in contract talks in the future.

 

[Seidenbergy]

Tough to do when the team in front of swayman can’t get the puck out of their own zone

Swayman faced 31 shots per game against in last year's playoffs.

Rask faced 31 shots per game against in the 2019 playoffs.

Literally the same.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

You kind of left the first part of his comment out of this. His full statement was.....

"I understand the cap is going up and where it will be in years. I understand my comparables and how I can’t ruin the goalie market for other guys that are going to be in my shoes down the line."

The "not ruining the goalie market" comment was him basically saying that his contract could/will be used for other goalies/teams in contract talks in the future.

Exactly. So...comparables. The point I've been trying to get through to Lonnie.