Proposal: Jeremy Swayman for Casey Mittlestadt, Isak Rosen and a 2nd.

[Asymmetric Solution]

It would cause them to have to move someone, but if it came down to say paying for Forbort to go or taking a 2nd for Swayman then its a very easy choice


Was Rask just a backup goalie in 2010?


Hds having an ok rookie season after playing horrible in Sweden for the past 1.5 years

It’s one thing to troll and post hyperbole that it appears is your shtick here. It’s another to just blatantly make up bs to falsify a point.

Rosen is in the midst of his D+2. He’s got 32 points in 56 games this season in the AHL.

He was also one of Sweden’s best forwards in the WJC and had 5 in 7.

Last year he dominated the Sweden U20 leagues before moving to the SHL, getting hurt and coming back to a 4th line role.

He’d be neck and neck with Boston’s best prospect. Lysell has slightly better stats in the AHL this season but did absolutely nothing in the WJC and held completely scoreless.

Meaning obtaining Rosen immediately gives Boston a 1A/1B for their best prospect.

And Swayman is a backup goalie buddy, as much as you try and pin a tail on a different narrative, he’s Boston’s backup and is ripe for an offersheet that Boston’s lopsided cap would not be able to handle without severely reducing elsewhere.

 

[Asymmetric Solution]

Upward trajectory is a weird way to describe a guy who was worse in 2022 than he was in 2021 and then even worse the next year in Sweden...

Take a lap kid

 

[Asymmetric Solution]

I'll ask again. Did you consider Rask to be a backup goalie in 2010? If he's just a backup why are you offer sheeting him for $4M+ ?

Why are you ignoring how Rosen season went last yearr in Sweden before bailing? I suppose saying dominating the junior team is a better way to say played terrible on the mens team

A 165lb 18 year old didn’t dominate a men’s league with 4th line minutes. Shocking.

I never said I’d offersheet him 4M. To most teams that’s probably where they’d start to fear the risk. I think Swayman’s a stud no doubt about it but what is Boston going to do? Pay LU 6 and JS 4-5?

 

[paulmm3]

Shocked this thread is still up after several days and hasn't been locked due to both sides being far apart on perceived value. But I'll jump in as a Buffalo fan and say this is not close on value for me and I snap decline this trade if I'm Buffalo.

 

[UncleRico]

Rosen was just picked in the first round 14th OA. Is having a great rookie season in the AHL as a 19 year old. These evaluations are really strange to me. They arent remotely accurate. Now you can say you dont like it as a Bruins fan which is fine but like your fellow fans these arent realistic or accurate descriptions of the players in the deal. I have no dog in this fight. This would be a large return for a goalie especially one that isnt remotely close to as good as Ulmark this year. Is Swayman really good? Or is he just on a good team. When there is this type of discrepancy with no other barometer how do we know for sure.

He’s a slightly above .50 ppg player in the AHL in his rookie year. Nothing eye popping and he struggled in Sweden. Swayman has over 80 GP in the NHL with two full seasons.

A 3rd line center, a 5”11 156 pound prospect and a 2nd isn’t getting you swayman. A top 6 center is the floor for swayman.

 

[UncleRico]

It’s one thing to troll and post hyperbole that it appears is your shtick here. It’s another to just blatantly make up bs to falsify a point.

Rosen is in the midst of his D+2. He’s got 32 points in 56 games this season in the AHL.

He was also one of Sweden’s best forwards in the WJC and had 5 in 7.

Last year he dominated the Sweden U20 leagues before moving to the SHL, getting hurt and coming back to a 4th line role.

He’d be neck and neck with Boston’s best prospect. Lysell has slightly better stats in the AHL this season but did absolutely nothing in the WJC and held completely scoreless.

Meaning obtaining Rosen immediately gives Boston a 1A/1B for their best prospect.

And Swayman is a backup goalie buddy, as much as you try and pin a tail on a different narrative, he’s Boston’s backup and is ripe for an offersheet that Boston’s lopsided cap would not be able to handle without severely reducing elsewhere.

The difference is swayman is a successful goaltender with roughly 80 GP over the last 2+ years and your sitting here talking up a 5”11 156 pound prospect who has had a decent rookie AHL season.

And yes swayman is a backup goalie, who over the last two years would be a starter on probably 20 different teams in the NHL right now without even having to think twice of it.

 

[is the answer jesus]

He’s a slightly above .50 ppg player in the AHL in his rookie year. Nothing eye popping and he struggled in Sweden. Swayman has over 80 GP in the NHL with two full seasons.

A 3rd line center, a 5”11 156 pound prospect and a 2nd isn’t getting you swayman. A top 6 center is the floor for swayman.

Not that I think that any of this conversation is in good faith, but Rosen has been pretty good as a rookie in the AHL (I'm basing this on actually viewing the player and actively following the Amerks not just using what I could find on eliteprospects to form my opinion). Anyone who had any knowledge of the player knew he was going to need extensive development and wasnt likely to crush the SHL or AHL as an undersized teenager.
As for Mittelstadt I touched on him earlier in the thread. He's looked much improved, he looks much more engaged and his offense has taken a bit of a jump this year. For now, he's young, on a cheap contract and there's more upside there than just a "3rd line center".
Just as an aside I think the Bruins are much better off keeping two really good goalies as long as they can swing it. If they do have to move Swayman they certainly won't move him in the division and frankly for better or worse Buffalo is intent on making Levi their goalie of the future. It's far more likely they bridge the gap with a quality veteran than pay the Kings ransom for Swayman.

 

[Osakahaus]

I do not think that the Bruins do this trade. It looks good on paper, and I would accept it, but in division and for a young goalie who still has nice upside? No. The sabres do need a goalie badly, and Middlestadt would be a fine replacement for Kreiji/etc down the line, but if you're Boston then you could've given a rival someone that steals games. Also I would wait to see what the Sabres do for their current goalie situation.

 

[Fantomas]

This thread is hilarious. People getting mad because Bruins fans want the moon for their young stud goalie.

Of course they do. What, you think they'll trade him for some crap?

 

[Eddie Munson]

This thread is hilarious. People getting mad because Bruins fans want the moon for their young stud goalie.

Of course they do. What, you think they'll trade him for some crap?

I wouldn’t even say they want the moon. I think the vast majority of Bruins fans in this thread think the overall value in the offer isn’t bad BUT it misses every need of the Bruins. Mittelstadt isn’t better than Coyle or Zacha so where does he play in Boston’s lineup? Rosen is good but the Bruins have Lysell at RW and arguably the best RW in the league locked up for 8 more years.

If the value were condensed into just a better center prospect I think many Bruins fans look long and hard at it. Many still may say no because many view Swayman in Boston the way Buffalo fans view Levi.

Again, and I can’t overstate this. I think many Boston fans like each piece in the deal, they just don’t fit an organizational need enough to get a piece like Swayman.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

Not in a trade they don’t…I think that is the point. No one is trading a reproducibly top 5 goalie and everyone else is not worth that much… goalies are the running backs of the NHL… Position everyone needs but not giving a big assets to trade for. That’s why we only rarely see goalies drafted in the first round these days! They are voodoo even after they have had a good seasons, even in their mid to late 20s. Outside of three or four guys the rest of the league is just not reproducibly good from year to year.


I agree and would be too - the argument from the Bruins is that offer is “ not close” for all the reasons I argued against above. They don’t think Middlestat or Rosen have any value to them that they don’t already have… Which I think is false and I think the offer is very good for a goalie That’s playing 30 games a year. But like I said, this horses beat dead as they want Cozens or Savoie , which is just not gonna happen and is not based in value in the real world

I don't think the offer is close at all, either.

Not in a trade they don’t…I think that is the point. No one is trading a reproducibly top 5 goalie and everyone else is not worth that much… goalies are the running backs of the NHL… Position everyone needs but not giving a big assets to trade for. That’s why we only rarely see goalies drafted in the first round these days! They are voodoo even after they have had a good seasons, even in their mid to late 20s. Outside of three or four guys the rest of the league is just not reproducibly good from year to year.


I agree and would be too - the argument from the Bruins is that offer is “ not close” for all the reasons I argued against above. They don’t think Middlestat or Rosen have any value to them that they don’t already have… Which I think is false and I think the offer is very good for a goalie That’s playing 30 games a year. But like I said, this horses beat dead as they want Cozens or Savoie , which is just not gonna happen and is not based in value in the real world

I would say if Sabres want him, we offer our 1st in the 2023 draft + (that could be Rosen whose value is more like a 2nd now or an actual second.) Trade Casey separately and try and recoup some picks. The Sabres need a heavy third line centre who can take draws, anyway.

 

[UncleRico]

Not that I think that any of this conversation is in good faith, but Rosen has been pretty good as a rookie in the AHL (I'm basing this on actually viewing the player and actively following the Amerks not just using what I could find on eliteprospects to form my opinion). Anyone who had any knowledge of the player knew he was going to need extensive development and wasnt likely to crush the SHL or AHL as an undersized teenager.
As for Mittelstadt I touched on him earlier in the thread. He's looked much improved, he looks much more engaged and his offense has taken a bit of a jump this year. For now, he's young, on a cheap contract and there's more upside there than just a "3rd line center".
Just as an aside I think the Bruins are much better off keeping two really good goalies as long as they can swing it. If they do have to move Swayman they certainly won't move him in the division and frankly for better or worse Buffalo is intent on making Levi their goalie of the future. It's far more likely they bridge the gap with a quality veteran than pay the Kings ransom for Swayman.

And it’s far more likely the bruins target an actual top 6 center than this package the original poster created. However being that we are in the thread talking about this specific package, I answered accordingly.

No matter how you slice it middlestadt, Rosen and a 2nd doesn’t come close to cutting it for swayman.

 

[Matt Ress]

Why is someone offering a top 6 center when they can offer sheet Swayman for the cost of a 2nd? I guess that's up to Sway (but ya know, starting gig, big payday...). I suppose he could be part of a package to acquire that piece.

Let's assume both goalies play well in the POs and stay healthy. It would be really tough to move on from Ullmark, assuming Boston has to move one of them (maybe they figure out a way to keep both). So then they'll be moving Swayman, everyone knows it and Sway may even want to move given it's the best thing for his career and family. Surprisingly, nobody is offering a top 6C or anyone projecting to be that.

This trade would never happen but Boston may jump on it if it was offered simply for the value.

 

[wintersej]

Before moving Swayman, the Bruins would look to move Forbort, Reilly, Gryz, DeBrusk, Coyle, and Hall. They will have to move some of those pieces. And probably one of the ones that wouldn't just be a cap dump. But, the Bruins LOVE having a good goalie tandem and have paid the price for it as a % of their cap hit up until very recently when they were paying around 10 million for Rask+Halak. Ullmark ain't a 60 game guy. Heck, Ullmark wasn't even projected to be the starter this year.

Teams should be making threads about DeBrusk, Gryz and Hall this offseason if the cap only goes up a million, not about Swayman.

 

[GeeoffBrown]

Why is someone offering a top 6 center when they can offer sheet Swayman for the cost of a 2nd? I guess that's up to Sway (but ya know, starting gig, big payday...). I suppose he could be part of a package to acquire that piece.

Let's assume both goalies play well in the POs and stay healthy. It would be really tough to move on from Ullmark, assuming Boston has to move one of them (maybe they figure out a way to keep both). So then they'll be moving Swayman, everyone knows it and Sway may even want to move given it's the best thing for his career and family. Surprisingly, nobody is offering a top 6C or anyone projecting to be that.

This trade would never happen but Boston may jump on it if it was offered simply for the value.

I think Bruins match any Swayman offer sheet in the 2nd round range

 

[TehDoak]

Sabres should give him a 3 year, 18M offersheet (1st and a 3rd).

If Levi is (ever) ready to be a starter before Swayman's contract is up, trade him to recoup the picks.

 

[DickSmehlik]

Before moving Swayman, the Bruins would look to move Forbort, Reilly, Gryz, DeBrusk, Coyle, and Hall. They will have to move some of those pieces. And probably one of the ones that wouldn't just be a cap dump. But, the Bruins LOVE having a good goalie tandem and have paid the price for it as a % of their cap hit up until very recently when they were paying around 10 million for Rask+Halak. Ullmark ain't a 60 game guy. Heck, Ullmark wasn't even projected to be the starter this year.

Teams should be making threads about DeBrusk, Gryz and Hall this offseason if the cap only goes up a million, not about Swayman.

As it is the Bruins have about $74 million dollars committed to 14 players next season with about 9 more players to sign with an estimated $11 million dollars. You offer up 6 additional players they should consider moving on from in order to save cap, which is fine in theory but that is far easier said then done and then they would still need to replace those players.

It would be very unlikely that they replace half their roster in order to sign a goalie and allocate a good chunk of what little cap space they have left to someone who will still be a back up.

The far more logical solution is to realize that Swayman is a luxury they can't afford and trade him for the best deal they can.

 

[wintersej]

As it is the Bruins have about $74 million dollars committed to 14 players next season with about 9 more players to sign with an estimated $11 million dollars. You offer up 6 additional players they should consider moving on from in order to save cap, which is fine in theory but that is far easier said then done and then they would still need to replace those players.

It would be very unlikely that they replace half their roster in order to sign a goalie and allocate a good chunk of what little cap space they have left to someone who will still be a back up.

The far more logical solution is to realize that Swayman is a luxury they can't afford and trade him for the best deal they can.

Everyone is just talking past each other. Bruins fans are well aware of the details of the cap situation for next year.

Swayman isn’t a luxury. Ullmark + Swayman, a blue line lead by McAvoy, Lindholm and Carlo and Pasta leading up front is the plan. Everything else is tried before touching those pieces.

The Bruins are certainly in for a cap casualty off-season.

You act like trading DeBrusk’s 4 million cap hit is impossible but moving Swayman’s 4 million hit at a discount is just what the Bruins are going to have to do.

Anyway, as I mentioned in the beginning of the thread, there is nothing to talk about here until we know what the final cap figure is and how the Bruins season ended.

 

[is the answer jesus]

And it’s far more likely the bruins target an actual top 6 center than this package the original poster created. However being that we are in the thread talking about this specific package, I answered accordingly.

No matter how you slice it middlestadt, Rosen and a 2nd doesn’t come close to cutting it for swayman.

I think it's actually a pretty decent package in it's entirety, but maybe I'm overvaluing the sum of the parts. I can understand the desire to aim high in a Swayman deal and look for a quality piece in return like an actual top 6 center. I just have a really hard time envisioning a team meeting that asking price. Your best bet would be taking the best draft pick you can for him and maybe draft a guy that becomes that top 6 center for you.

 

[wintersej]

I think it's actually a pretty decent package in it's entirety, but maybe I'm overvaluing the sum of the parts. I can understand the desire to aim high in a Swayman deal and look for a quality piece in return like an actual top 6 center. I just have a really hard time envisioning a team meeting that asking price. Your best bet would be taking the best draft pick you can for him and maybe draft a guy that becomes that top 6 center for you.

I don’t think the value the OP presented is awful it just doesn’t save the Bruins much cap and gives them redundant players. It’s a fine ea sports offer but is just the wrong guys to Boston.

 

[toomuchsauce]

you need to factor in the "The Buffalo Sabres" factor here. That is, Swayman's .921 sv pct looks great, but he's playing for the best team in NHL history. Playing behind The Buffalo Sabres, that .921 is going to be more like a .905, at best. And, while that would be a great improvement over the current Sabres goalies, it's not worth giving up a prospect and a relatively high pick to acquire.

If you don't believe me, just consult the "Linus Ullmark Save Percentage Conversion Chart." 2019-20 Buffalo Sabres .915 *furious typing, clanging and whirring noises* 2022-23 Boston Bruins .937.

There's also an argument that no goalie, regardless of perceived talent, is worth giving up assets to acquire in a trade because goaltender performance is so variable that you have no idea what you're getting.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Why is someone offering a top 6 center when they can offer sheet Swayman for the cost of a 2nd? I guess that's up to Sway (but ya know, starting gig, big payday...). I suppose he could be part of a package to acquire that piece.

Let's assume both goalies play well in the POs and stay healthy. It would be really tough to move on from Ullmark, assuming Boston has to move one of them (maybe they figure out a way to keep both). So then they'll be moving Swayman, everyone knows it and Sway may even want to move given it's the best thing for his career and family. Surprisingly, nobody is offering a top 6C or anyone projecting to be that.

This trade would never happen but Boston may jump on it if it was offered simply for the value.

Because the Bruins match 4.2 in a heartbeat

As it is the Bruins have about $74 million dollars committed to 14 players next season with about 9 more players to sign with an estimated $11 million dollars. You offer up 6 additional players they should consider moving on from in order to save cap, which is fine in theory but that is far easier said then done and then they would still need to replace those players.

It would be very unlikely that they replace half their roster in order to sign a goalie and allocate a good chunk of what little cap space they have left to someone who will still be a back up.

The far more logical solution is to realize that Swayman is a luxury they can't afford and trade him for the best deal they can.

And if Bergeron and/or Krejci return on similar deals that frees up space by kicking the bonus overages out another year and fills 2 open spots

 

[KrakenSabresMike]

I don't think the offer is close at all, either.

I would say if Sabres want him, we offer our 1st in the 2023 draft + (that could be Rosen whose value is more like a 2nd now or an actual second.) Trade Casey separately and try and recoup some picks. The Sabres need a heavy third line centre who can take draws, anyway.

Just curious why Rosen is only worth a 2? That’s 22/23 year old busted top 10 picks get? He’s worth less than a 22 yo Alex nylander? I very much so disagree… His trade value is an equivalent developing player, Midfirst value, which is exactly what he is, that might be a D we value more.

Also, again, what goalie has gotten more than Middlestat Rosen and a second in the last 10 years??? No one … which returns to the point why do we want to give up that much for a guy playing 30 games a year?

No one is denying he is good but why spend our top resources on that when we can get a very good older goalie to bridge for 2 years and use those assets to get the top 4 D we need to complete the D?

 

[wintersej]

you need to factor in the "The Buffalo Sabres" factor here. That is, Swayman's .921 sv pct looks great, but he's playing for the best team in NHL history. Playing behind The Buffalo Sabres, that .921 is going to be more like a .905, at best. And, while that would be a great improvement over the current Sabres goalies, it's not worth giving up a prospect and a relatively high pick to acquire.

If you don't believe me, just consult the "Linus Ullmark Save Percentage Conversion Chart." 2019-20 Buffalo Sabres .915 *furious typing, clanging and whirring noises* 2022-23 Boston Bruins .937.

There's also an argument that no goalie, regardless of perceived talent, is worth giving up assets to acquire in a trade because goaltender performance is so variable that you have no idea what you're getting.

You do know that Ullmark had a 917 for the Bruins in 21-22 right? You do know that he has made mechanical changes with the Bruins goalie coach this offseason, right?

 

[PastaBaked]

you need to factor in the "The Buffalo Sabres" factor here. That is, Swayman's .921 sv pct looks great, but he's playing for the best team in NHL history. Playing behind The Buffalo Sabres, that .921 is going to be more like a .905, at best. And, while that would be a great improvement over the current Sabres goalies, it's not worth giving up a prospect and a relatively high pick to acquire.

If you don't believe me, just consult the "Linus Ullmark Save Percentage Conversion Chart." 2019-20 Buffalo Sabres .915 *furious typing, clanging and whirring noises* 2022-23 Boston Bruins .937.

There's also an argument that no goalie, regardless of perceived talent, is worth giving up assets to acquire in a trade because goaltender performance is so variable that you have no idea what you're getting.

On the contrary; two factors are invariable.

1. Bruins develop great goalies
2. Buffalo don't

You are going to have to pay over the odds for one that hasn't been ruined by the Sabres coaches.