Player Discussion Jeff Skinner

[lauraP]

We need both types of players. It's not one or the other for me, I'd take both.

remember that one game where kane fought petrovic 3 times.we'd be lucky if the whole team collectively gets 3 fights this year

 

[OkimLom]

remember that one game where kane fought petrovic 3 times.we'd be lucky if the whole team collectively gets 3 fights this year

Or when he and Eichel stood up for Reinhart in Pittsburgh...

 

[Jim Bob]

We need both types of players. It's not one or the other for me, I'd take both.

I wouldn't take EKane, period.

I would take a player that plays a similar game. Although, I would be wary of having two 30+ yo wingers making that much. Especially with Okposo at $6M and Reinhart and VO needing to get paid.

 

[Sabretooth]

I wouldn't take EKane, period.

I would take a player that plays a similar game. Although, I would be wary of having two 30+ yo wingers making that much. Especially with Okposo at $6M and Reinhart and VO needing to get paid.

Yup, we need to draft that player and have them through their value years, not at UFA cost

 

[sabrebuild]

In the EKane vs Skinner debate, I like Kane's contract way more.

But, I'll take Skinner, and his way worse contract, every day of the week because of Skinner's character.

I'm not really worried about one or the other.

But I'm not really interested in sport stars character, one because you almost always are talking about crazy rumors and minimal things thay are blown out of proportion.

I want to be entertained, then we can worry about angel hockey players.

 

[OkimLom]

I wouldn't take EKane, period.

I would take a player that plays a similar game. Although, I would be wary of having two 30+ yo wingers making that much. Especially with Okposo at $6M and Reinhart and VO needing to get paid.

That's why I said type of player

 

[joshjull]

 

[Fatass]

In other words, if you’re not scoring, then play harder without the puck, and help the team win in other ways.

 

[Jim Bob]

I'm not really worried about one or the other.

But I'm not really interested in sport stars character, one because you almost always are talking about crazy rumors and minimal things thay are blown out of proportion.

I want to be entertained, then we can worry about angel hockey players.

Missing practice because of a trip to the NBA All-Star Game affects the team on the ice.

 

[sabrebuild]

Missing practice because of a trip to the NBA All-Star Game affects the team on the ice.

We talkin bout Practice!!

Zero percent team effect to have a winger miss one pro practice. Zero.

 

[Jim Bob]

We talkin bout Practice!!

Zero percent team effect to have a winger miss one pro practice. Zero.

It does when he ends up suspended for a game because of it.

 

[sabrebuild]

It does when he ends up suspended for a game because of it.

That sounds like a coach problem.

 

[Jim Bob]

That sounds like a coach problem.

Yeah, I guess Sheldon Keefe is the issue in Toronto for holding Kapanen responsivle for oversleeping and being late to practice too...

 

[Chainshot]

We talkin bout Practice!!

Zero percent team effect to have a winger miss one pro practice. Zero.

If we're going down this road again...

Kane in Buffalo was still doing things that aren't usually the path to winning hockey. He was reportedly the last guy to get to the rink and the first guy off afterwards. He is blessed with extraordinary natural physique which has allowed him to do things like come live-and-direct from Toronto to practice. Now if that player is say, your Art Ross contending winger who is enjoying the nightlife but still manages to show up to lead his team in scoring and drive deeply into the playoffs every year? People probably look the other way, even if he's having a bad influence on Pierre Larouche, err younger players on the team. Kane reportedly had bar confrontations not just in Buffalo but in Winnipeg and back home in Vancouver too. The off-ice stuff has settled down in San Jose, but then again, so has he. He's engaged and had a tragic incident where his GF lost a baby this year. The maturity has started to show up in his game.

Skinner on the other hand is one of the first guys at the rink and puts in a great deal of effort off it to be better. We've read the reports on how he trains and the drive he has to be better. Stylistically, yeah, Kane blowing someone up every now and then is fun but his on-ice play was far more frustrating than Skinner's as well when things weren't going well. We know both are flawed defensively. I'm good with that, as long as Skinner is producing ESG's the way Skinner produces ESG's.

Even with his slump, he's still right in line with his career numbers. The only reason I wouldn't mind seeing him get some time on Jack's wing would be to see if he can get on a roll of his own, jumpstarting off the mayhem that Eichel creates in the offensive zone.

 

[Chainshot]

In other words, if you’re not scoring, then play harder without the puck, and help the team win in other ways.

Very much so. While plus/minus is not a great stat, Skinner is a whopping -11 in his last 11 games, even with being a +1 in three of them. Also, he has to get to the net and start drawing penalties rather than being the guy who is taking them. His penalty against the Sens was weak.

He's not getting to areas to shoot or not hitting the net. He has 4 multi-shot games in his last 11. He was held without a shot at one stretch for a couple of games and outside of the December loss in Ottawa right before he got hurt, he wasn't getting shots. Even more than getting back - which has never been his strength - he needs to get to the net, get shots on goal, and start being the yappy pest we know.

 

[sabrebuild]

Yeah, I guess Sheldon Keefe is the issue in Toronto for holding Kapanen responsivle for oversleeping and being late to practice too...

If we're going down this road again...

Kane in Buffalo was still doing things that aren't usually the path to winning hockey. He was reportedly the last guy to get to the rink and the first guy off afterwards. He is blessed with extraordinary natural physique which has allowed him to do things like come live-and-direct from Toronto to practice. Now if that player is say, your Art Ross contending winger who is enjoying the nightlife but still manages to show up to lead his team in scoring and drive deeply into the playoffs every year? People probably look the other way, even if he's having a bad influence on Pierre Larouche, err younger players on the team. Kane reportedly had bar confrontations not just in Buffalo but in Winnipeg and back home in Vancouver too. The off-ice stuff has settled down in San Jose, but then again, so has he. He's engaged and had a tragic incident where his GF lost a baby this year. The maturity has started to show up in his game.

Skinner on the other hand is one of the first guys at the rink and puts in a great deal of effort off it to be better. We've read the reports on how he trains and the drive he has to be better. Stylistically, yeah, Kane blowing someone up every now and then is fun but his on-ice play was far more frustrating than Skinner's as well when things weren't going well. We know both are flawed defensively. I'm good with that, as long as Skinner is producing ESG's the way Skinner produces ESG's.

Even with his slump, he's still right in line with his career numbers. The only reason I wouldn't mind seeing him get some time on Jack's wing would be to see if he can get on a roll of his own, jumpstarting off the mayhem that Eichel creates in the offensive zone.

I'm mostly kidding.

To be honest, I don't think either guy is an ideal winger to pay a boatload of money to. Both in terms of play and off ice lack of professionalism.

I look at Stone's contract and I shake my head at Skinner's deal. Like seriously? The same time period. Better defense, far better total offense, not the highs of goal scoring, but consistently close on average for the last 4 years.

Yuck. I won't put this fully on Carolina being smart because of how cheap ownership is down there, but it should be notable that a goal scoring team like them, starved, would trade him a full year early, rather than try to resign him with an improved team.

I would speculate he told them he was out, but last year they hit the playoffs and one would have to assume he could have helped them significantly last year.

I get the even strength goal need, but that contract will be awful sooner than later imo.

 

[Samsonite23]

Larry and Skinner definitely looked like they had some chemistry the few games they were thrown together. Would not mind seeing that get another look, especially with LOG already broken up by Okposo's injury.

Yes please. Skinner is at his best when he's below the goal line or in the crease/slot. Larry lives below the goal line.

 

[TehDoak]

Saying Skinner is "floating" or "taking the year off" is just you projecting your dislike of the player. His effort has been consistent since day 1.

He was much more engaged last year than this year, even before the injury. I certainly get he's been saddled with worse linemates and that is going to affect production. However, His play has dropped significantly this year, and his production reflects that.

I'd much rather have Skinner at 9M than Kane at 7M, especially on this team (where Kane wasn't very good at all).

The off ice stuff has been covered pretty well by other posters. I mean, honestly, I don't want either on my team, especially at the premium they demand. Neither are elite forwards worthy of the % of the cap they take up.

 

[Buffaloed]

WGR Pregame Sabres/Wings Pierre McGuire suggested it's the "burden of" the contract holding Skinner back. It's the pressure to perform up to the level he's being paid. That's easily solved. Give me half your money Jeff.

 

[The Red Helmet]

Is there any chance there will be a buy out clause in the new cba like there was in the last?

 

[Fezzy126]

Yes please. Skinner is at his best when he's below the goal line or in the crease/slot. Larry lives below the goal line.

Yup, it boggles my mind that there's even a debate about Skinner. This is what we all knew when he signed his contract:

Last year we paired him with one of the best transition players in the league and he had a career year.

This year we've paired him with a bunch of guys that never get the puck to his area of strength and wonder what the problem could be, while throwing around digs about his contract and what he should be doing based on his contract value

I've said this about players in multiple sports, but give me a player with an elite skillset and a good coach should be capable of weaponizing it, almost regardless of his flaws.

 

[Aladyyn]

Yup, it boggles my mind that there's even a debate about Skinner. This is what we all knew when he signed his contract:

View attachment 317379

Last year we paired him with one of the best transition players in the league and he had a career year.

This year we've paired him with a bunch of guys that never get the puck to his area of strength and wonder what the problem could be, while throwing around digs about his contract and what he should be doing based on his contract value

I've said this about players in multiple sports, but give me a player with an elite skillset and a good coach should be capable of weaponizing it, almost regardless of his flaws.

And he's far from the only player on the team with this issue.

 

[joshjull]

We talkin bout Practice!!

Zero percent team effect to have a winger miss one pro practice. Zero.

Allowing a dysfunctional team culture that had irresponsibility as a hallmark is not a good thing for a young team. Kane was a big part of that. It worth remembering both of our young stars(Jack/Sam) were sat that season for being late to things that year. Not a good look , especially when you embarrassed one of them (Sam) in ridiculous fashion (sitting in uniform for an entire game on the bench).

I don’t think Kane is a horrible person just a knucklehead who set a bad professional example for younger players.

 

[sabrebuild]

Allowing a dysfunctional team culture that had irresponsibility as a hallmark is not a good thing for a young team. Kane was a big part of that. It worth remembering both of our young stars(Jack/Sam) were sat that season for being late to things that year. Not a good look , especially when you embarrassed one of them (Sam) in ridiculous fashion (sitting in uniform for an entire game on the bench).

I don’t think Kane is a horrible person just a knucklehead who set a bad professional example for younger players.

We Talkin bout Practice

 

[joshjull]

Yup, it boggles my mind that there's even a debate about Skinner. This is what we all knew when he signed his contract:

View attachment 317379

Last year we paired him with one of the best transition players in the league and he had a career year.

This year we've paired him with a bunch of guys that never get the puck to his area of strength and wonder what the problem could be, while throwing around digs about his contract and what he should be doing based on his contract value

I've said this about players in multiple sports, but give me a player with an elite skillset and a good coach should be capable of weaponizing it, almost regardless of his flaws.

I think the career year and playing with Eichel thing gets greatly overplayed.

In 16-17 Skinner had a very similar season to last year 5v5. Arguably more impressive without Eichel.

16-17 -> 79gms 27g 39pts (37 primary points)(1164mins played)
18-19 -> 82gms 27g 42pts (38 primary points)(1210mins played)

Skinner is on roughly a 22g pace at 5v5 (if he played 1200mins). Which is in the range of what he’s done the previous 5 seasons and not far off from last year.

Where he’s really dropped off the map is on the PP. He has zero goals/3 points. The way the PP is set up he’s not much of a focal point either. Risto has essentially replaced him on PP1. Last year he had 8g/16pts and in 16-17 he had 7g/15pts on the PP.

I’m not sure how much it matters who he plays with 5v5. When he’s hot he can score goals with anyone. Conversely when he’s cold he can’t score no matter who he’s with.

Where I think the coaches are hurting his production is on the PP not 5v5.