Player Discussion Jeff Skinner

[joshjull]

What would you have paid him
Knowing last season was an outliner& he would slip back to CAR levels?

What was Skinners leverage considering he wanted to be close to home and TOR has no space?[/B]

He had a similar season to last year with the Canes. He had also already established himself as one of the best 5v5 goal scorers in the NHL before coming here.


I think we overpaid him. I don’t think its by that much and I don’t really care that we did. We needed to keep talent. Skinner’s leverage was our desperation.

 

[debaser66]

He had a similar season to last year with the Canes. He had also already established himself as one of the best 5v5 goal scorers in the NHL before coming here.


I think we overpaid him. I don’t think its by that much and I don’t really care that we did. We needed to keep talent. Skinner’s leverage was our desperation.

Thx for yr take
The full NMC is a bit too much for me
Either a bit less $ or modified NMC or not for the full term

 

[Chainshot]

Deployment does have an impact on scoring.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

He is in a unbelievably unlucky streak. I am not going to freak out, he is going to be fine.Before his goalless streak he had 11 goals in 28 games. Which was over a 30+ goal pace. He will still finish with 20+ goals and keeping him was the right choice. He is no Okposo. Not even close. He has 3 more full seasons before he even turns 31. No reason he should not be with Jack. First 40 goal scorer in nearly a decade and people are bemoaning keeping him, lol. There was no one in free agency aside from Panarin who was never coming here who is as good a goal scorer as Skinner.

 

[Snippit]

If you knew that then your comment is ignorant. Its well established that zone starts have little to no impact on production in the aggregate. Just as ignorant is the idea that he’s now getting “normal distribution” as if thats even a thing.


Are you even aware of what player usage is? Or how it’s represented by OZS%? Because these comments suggest you're not. Offensively skilled players usually gets offensively skewed OZS%. Just like Jack, Sam and VO have gotten as a line (roughly 65%). Its also why guys like LOG get defensive skewed OZS%. (Around 40%)


I get you what to rant about Skinner but at least make logical arguments.

I don't understand why in your original post you brought up the fact that Skinner's usage had changed, if not to suggest that it was a reason behind his decreased production.

Certainly I didn't know that it's "well established" that deployment doesn't impact your scoring rate though, so please share some more.

 

[darcyRegier]

He has struck metal a great deal. Bouncing pucks, fumbled shots- it seems like a streak of bad luck and d-zone use to me.

That crossbar against Montreal must be driving him crazy. He needs a goal to get himself going.

 

[Chainshot]

That crossbar against Montreal must be driving him crazy. He needs a goal to get himself going.

And that’s really my only reason for wanting to put him with Jack is to maybe get him moving in the right direction. Maybe Jack and Sam help him pop one or two, which could open the proverbial flood gates.

 

[darcyRegier]

And that’s really my only reason for wanting to put him with Jack is to maybe get him moving in the right direction. Maybe Jack and Sam help him pop one or two, which could open the proverbial flood gates.

Same here, I’d still like to see Skinner - Eichel - x and Olofsson - Mojo - Reinhart for a few games once Vic is back. Think Sam on the 2nd line would make us much better.

 

[Chainshot]

Same here, I’d still like to see Skinner - Eichel - x and Olofsson - Mojo - Reinhart for a few games once Vic is back. Think Sam on the 2nd line would make us much better.

I would do it now if they aren't going to do what seems from the stat line to actually be a good combo -- that of Larsson as Skinner's center. I'm sure that would get ol' Mike and Sully riled up...

 

[TehDoak]

He is in a unbelievably unlucky streak. I am not going to freak out, he is going to be fine.Before his goalless streak he had 11 goals in 28 games. Which was over a 30+ goal pace. He will still finish with 20+ goals and keeping him was the right choice. He is no Okposo. Not even close. He has 3 more full seasons before he even turns 31. No reason he should not be with Jack. First 40 goal scorer in nearly a decade and people are bemoaning keeping him, lol. There was no one in free agency aside from Panarin who was never coming here who is as good a goal scorer as Skinner.

Oh lawdy.

Skinner has years of similar shooting % every few years. It's not unlucky. He floats through entire seasons. Shocker of shock, he shows up in a contract year and takes off the next. It's an awful, bad, shitty contract for a low impact forward.

 

[Aladyyn]

My point was that Reinhart has managed to produce at a respectable rate on the PP this year even though he's not part of the exclusive triangle at the top.

Regardless of the system, if you're playing half-way decent on a middling #1 PP unit, you put up points.

Reinhart is getting PP assists at half the rate of last year and his primary PP assists are at Skinner level. Reinhart is shooting more and Skinner is shooting less this season. The system has undoubtedly hurt Skinner's production, there's zero doubt about it. Last year only Eichel had more shot attempts on the PP, this year it's Eichel, Olofsson, and Dahlin.

 

[Aladyyn]

Oh lawdy.

View attachment 315815

Skinner has years of similar shooting % every few years. It's not unlucky. He floats through entire seasons. Shocker of shock, he shows up in a contract year and takes off the next. It's an awful, bad, ****ty contract for a low impact forward.

View attachment 315817

Saying Skinner is "floating" or "taking the year off" is just you projecting your dislike of the player. His effort has been consistent since day 1.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Oh lawdy.

View attachment 315815

Skinner has years of similar shooting % every few years. It's not unlucky. He floats through entire seasons. Shocker of shock, he shows up in a contract year and takes off the next. It's an awful, bad, ****ty contract for a low impact forward.

View attachment 315817

WHY AREN’T WE PLAYING DALTON SMITH MORE!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

 

[Sabresfansince1980]

Sorry but its hard to take you seriously with that statement.
This group needs some success & consider qualifing alone one
Especially if you re on the longest drought in the whole league
What about UFAs?
It narrows the list & you have to overpay even more....

In the context of whether Eichel's season has been "wasted", as suggested by another poster that Skinner's meh season has somehow contributed to this vague description of success for a season, making the playoffs or even winning one round doesn't really make a difference. For the team as a whole, playoffs can obviously be a big step, educationally at least. As for whether Eichel's season was wasted...that's vague and a seemingly dramatic way to phrase things. One could easily argue that anyone who didn't win the Cup had a wasted season.

To me, nobody is having a wasted season unless they don't care and aren't trying, or had a season-ending injury that stalled out their development. Skinner is just having a tough time in a tough role, nothing to worry about. Eichel is setting a standard for himself and proving to be a top player in the league, and hopefully setting an example for whatever Sabres are still on the team next season.

 

[Bendium]

Deployment does have an impact on scoring.

This is very true, especially for a sniper like Jeff Skinner. He should be on a line with higher O-zone deployment...…...because it increases the proximity to the net of one of your most deadly scorers.

Same here, I’d still like to see Skinner - Eichel - x and Olofsson - Mojo - Reinhart for a few games once Vic is back. Think Sam on the 2nd line would make us much better.

I would be happy with that change. I think the key is splitting Eichel and Reinhart. I think Skinners numbers go up playing with either of them. I have felt all season that a second line of Skinner - Mojo - Reinhart is a great combination of experienced sniper - puck carrier - distributer.

In the context of whether Eichel's season has been "wasted", as suggested by another poster that Skinner's meh season has somehow contributed to this vague description of success for a season, making the playoffs or even winning one round doesn't really make a difference. For the team as a whole, playoffs can obviously be a big step, educationally at least. As for whether Eichel's season was wasted...that's vague and a seemingly dramatic way to phrase things. One could easily argue that anyone who didn't win the Cup had a wasted season.

To me, nobody is having a wasted season unless they don't care and aren't trying, or had a season-ending injury that stalled out their development. Skinner is just having a tough time in a tough role, nothing to worry about. Eichel is setting a standard for himself and proving to be a top player in the league, and hopefully setting an example for whatever Sabres are still on the team next season.

Completely agree with this. It is not "wasted." Also, if the better players on this team including Jack are going to win playoff games, it starts with not giving up on this season, and playing not only to win every game, but to build momentum going into next year. Perfecting and refining the system they are in the first year of developing with their coach. This core is still developing and have several maturation levels to go up before being playoff ready.

 

[K8fool]

All these things required jason the secret tank commander to make a friggin trade for prospects and a puck and remive cap trash to get at least one more talent to move this team forward..

He has failed the team and all of us.. You are right about yr combos and possibilities to have two scoring lines .

You are also right about them playing to win despite our herk gm and using this adversity to build on for next year and not perpetuate the losing by saying F it on the 2nd season w no real help.

 

[Chainshot]

If I were in a position to do so, I would be spamming Krueger with suggestions that the isolated impacts of Skinner-Larsson-Sheary indicate a line that works. For all the talk of the need for secondary scoring behind Eichel and ways to get Skinner going again, looking at a trio that had xG and shot advantages that they simply don't go with out of mulish obstinance... I'd probably lose my job with the team yelling for them to try it for an extended period of time again.

 

[sabrebuild]

Any player’s offensive contributions are measured through the prism of what’s expected of them. In Skinner’s case its primarily to score goals, particularly 5v5 goals.



Its not that he can “drive a line” but that he can score goals 5v5 regardless of line mates. He has several years in this league doing so to prove it.

The big change for Skinner this year though is his usage. In the previous 5 years he was getting OZS% of 62%, 63%, 67%, 72% and 76% with Jack last season. He’s at 55% at the moment. Which is a slight uptick from earlier this year around 50%. For whatever reason Krueger wants him in this more two way role than the offensively focused one he had last year. It would probably work better if he was with Larsson but he’s spent the bulk of the year with Mojo as his center.

Since Girgs can play either wing they should just put him on RW with Skinner on the LW. I think a Skinner/Larsson/Girgs line would do a lot better than either of the two middle 6 lines we currently ice.

I would love to see that combo for ten games in a row.

 

[sabrebuild]

What would you have paid him
Knowing last season was an outliner& he would slip back to CAR levels?

What was Skinners leverage considering he wanted to be close to home and TOR has no space?

It should have been a touch more than Kane, based on the market.

But when you add in the extra year, the movement clause and the fact that you are the only team in his geographic desired area, that 2 million extra is a pretty hefty overpay.

It shouldn't matter, but when a guy like Kane took 7 and you trade a player of O'Reilly's caliber at 7.5 a year, signing a winger at 9 a year forever is a pretty big head shake, because you put yourself in that position.

Hope he gets back to 40 goal form.

 

[sabrebuild]

WHY AREN’T WE PLAYING DALTON SMITH MORE!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!

That's what I was thinking too!

 

[Aladyyn]

It should have been a touch more than Kane, based on the market.

But when you add in the extra year, the movement clause and the fact that you are the only team in his geographic desired area, that 2 million extra is a pretty hefty overpay.

It shouldn't matter, but when a guy like Kane took 7 and you trade a player of O'Reilly's caliber at 7.5 a year, signing a winger at 9 a year forever is a pretty big head shake, because you put yourself in that position.

Hope he gets back to 40 goal form.

I'd much rather have Skinner at 9M than Kane at 7M, especially on this team (where Kane wasn't very good at all).

 

[tsujimoto74]

If I were in a position to do so, I would be spamming Krueger with suggestions that the isolated impacts of Skinner-Larsson-Sheary indicate a line that works. For all the talk of the need for secondary scoring behind Eichel and ways to get Skinner going again, looking at a trio that had xG and shot advantages that they simply don't go with out of mulish obstinance... I'd probably lose my job with the team yelling for them to try it for an extended period of time again.

Larry and Skinner definitely looked like they had some chemistry the few games they were thrown together. Would not mind seeing that get another look, especially with LOG already broken up by Okposo's injury.

 

[sabrebuild]

I'd much rather have Skinner at 9M than Kane at 7M, especially on this team (where Kane wasn't very good at all).

I'm gonna be honest with you Alladyn, I don't particularly care about the fancy stats for this one. Partly because my memory says Kane's teams were awful.

But mostly because I have no belief that the wide variety of teams give a flying f about that breakdown. Certainly not enough to dramatically align the market.

I would be much more impressed with a comp that showed me a winger who pretty much only scores goals, and he does it well, but provides very little playmaking or physicality with no history of playoff success.

It could be out there, but I can't think of it. And tok lazy to do the research.

 

[Jim Bob]

In the EKane vs Skinner debate, I like Kane's contract way more.

But, I'll take Skinner, and his way worse contract, every day of the week because of Skinner's character.

 

[OkimLom]

In the EKane vs Skinner debate, I like Kane's contract way more.

But, I'll take Skinner, and his way worse contract, every day of the week because of Skinner's character.

We need both types of players. It's not one or the other for me, I'd take both.