Confirmed with Link: Jeff Skinner -- Bought Out 6/29/24

[Dingo44]

$6mil x 5. Less than half what he got from us. In Skinners shoes I'd have taken the money too. There's nothing wrong with wanting to get paid over winning a championship. I'm just saying we should call a spade a spade here.


Getting a shocking amount of resistance from this air I've been punching.

Which team?

Plus you honestly think he should have taken $42 million less for a maybe? No team is guaranteed to win the Cup.

Also, the Sabres still had Eichel, Reinhart, Risto, Mittelstadt, and other pieces. He may have saw the team on an upward trend.

Have you ever played sports? I've been on hockey teams that won a lot and even won the championship and I didn't have fun. And I've been on last place teams where I loved every minute other than the losing.

 

[Irie]

A return to 33g/63p form does make the contract less bad.

But 33g 30a is still terrible production for a player earing $9mil aav, unless they are also up for the Selke every year. Skinner is almost the exact opposite style of player to get Selke consideration.

And I'm not convinced Skinners "vibes" are all that valuable either. Eichel and ROR before him were both maligned for their poor attitudes while in Buffalo. But wouldn't someone who's life goal to win the cup be understandably down while playing on a shit team? ROR certainly turned it around quick in a better environment. Eichel on the other hand has yet to prove he's not the problem.

You need guys who have pride, who take it personally to win championships.

Skinner seems far more concerned with proximity to Toronto and his salary than with winning a Cup.

If you are questioning Skinner's compete, I have to wonder if you are watching the games.

No, he's no defensive stalwart, but he battles for the puck and goes to the dirty areas and takes the punishment to get a lot of his goals.

He also draws a ton of penalties as mentioned already.

Is he a flawed player, yes. Is he worth his contract, no. But if he were making 7 right now, people would be arguing it is a good deal, which begs the question, is 1.5-2 million worth the trouble of being upset about?

 

[joshjull]

He forced a trade to last place Buffalo, due to it's proximity to Toronto and his family.

Nope.

Canes had decided to move on from him because Brindy didn’t think he was a good fit for the possession system he wanted to implement. Plus would be tough to re-sign him as a soon to be UFA.

Skinner ended up in Buffalo because he had a full NMC and controlled his destination. Not because he forced a trade.

He then had a 40g season in a 27th place effort by the Sabres.

Yep. He did everything they could have hoped for, and then some, for a 1st line LW acquisition. He was part of the best top line we’d had in some time.

It fairly comical you think the 27th place finished means something about Skinner.

He signed for $9mil x 8 with a full nmc.

And?

Is that what someone obsessed with winning a Cup would do?

Who are these mythical Cup obsessed players you keep referencing? The ones who pass on huge sums of money in their first crack at free agency. All so they can play for a Cup contender and sate their Cup obsession.

 

[joshjull]

$6mil x 5. Less than half what he got from us. In Skinners shoes I'd have taken the money too. There's nothing wrong with wanting to get paid over winning a championship. I'm just saying we should call a spade a spade here.

This is a such a terrible take.

Do some research.

Skinner just came off a 6yr 34.345mil (5.75mil per) deal. You really expect him to go into free agency as a 27yr old and sign only a 5yr 30mil deal (6mil per)?

There isn’t a player on the planet in Skinner’s situation (during pre pandemic conditions) who would sign for so little. Not a chance in hell.

Skinner just lucked into dealing with a knuckhead who gave him too much in salary AND trade protection. But he would have gotten 8yrs 56-64mil total** (7-8mil per) with any other GM.

**No player is passing on an additional 30mil or so in career earnings because they’re “cUP ObSeSSed”. But feel free to prove me wrong by showing me all the players passing up enormous sums of money to sign as free agents with a Cup contender (pre pandemic).

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

Just seems like bad timing to be shitting on a guy who bounced back strongly with a 33G 63P season after 2 Krueger-assisted, uncharacteristically terrible ones.

 

[old kummelweck]

I really do not care about the Skinner contract. Wake me up when the Sabres have a cap issue.

 

[elchud]

I really do not care about the Skinner contract. Wake me up when the Sabres have a cap issue.

The *Sabres* care about it is what is important. If they didn't then this would he concerning.

 

[TehDoak]

"Boy I hope this contract doesn't keep us from having cap issues in his 3rd season and beyond"

::monkey's paw curls::

 

[BFLO]

If you are questioning Skinner's compete, I have to wonder if you are watching the games.

No, he's no defensive stalwart, but he battles for the puck and goes to the dirty areas and takes the punishment to get a lot of his goals.

He also draws a ton of penalties as mentioned already.

Is he a flawed player, yes. Is he worth his contract, no. But if he were making 7 right now, people would be arguing it is a good deal, which begs the question, is 1.5-2 million worth the trouble of being upset about?

$7x5 with a M-NTC and I wouldn't have a huge problem with it. The extra 3 years and NMC are maybe worse than the $2 mil AAV overpay.

Nope.

Canes had decided to move on from him because Brindy didn’t think he was a good fit for the possession system he wanted to implement. Plus would be tough to re-sign him as a soon to be UFA.

Skinner ended up in Buffalo because he had a full NMC and controlled his destination. Not because he forced a trade.

You're right that Skinner didn't have to force a trade, Carolina was more than happy to be rid of him. But he did force the destination.

He forced his way to Buffalo with his NMC in the same way that Hall forced his way to Boston.

This is a such a terrible take.

Do some research.

Skinner just came off a 6yr 34.345mil (5.75mil per) deal. You really expect him to go into free agency as a 27yr old and sign only a 5yr 30mil deal (6mil per)?

There isn’t a player on the planet in Skinner’s situation (during pre pandemic conditions) who would sign for so little. Not a chance in hell.

Skinner just lucked into dealing with a knuckhead who gave him too much in salary AND trade protection. But he would have gotten 8yrs 56-64mil total** (7-8mil per) with any other GM.

**No player is passing on an additional 30mil or so in career earnings because they’re “cUP ObSeSSed”. But feel free to prove me wrong by showing me all the players passing up enormous sums of money to sign as free agents with a Cup contender (pre pandemic).

Do some research? Pot meet kettle.

There's only 9 active forward contracts in the entire league that were signed by 27 year olds or older for 8 years pre pandemic.

But please, do go on about how every GM in the league would have signed him for 8 years x $7-8m aav. I'm sure you thoroughly researched it.

 

[brian_griffin]

$7x5 with a M-NTC and I wouldn't have a huge problem with it. The extra 3 years and NMC are maybe worse than the $2 mil AAV overpay.

You're right that Skinner didn't have to force a trade, Carolina was more than happy to be rid of him. But he did force the destination.

He forced his way to Buffalo with his NMC in the same way that Hall forced his way to Boston.

Do some research? Pot meet kettle.

There's only 9 active forward contracts in the entire league that were signed by 27 year olds or older for 8 years pre pandemic.

But please, do go on about how every GM in the league would have signed him for 8 years x $7-8m aav. I'm sure you thoroughly researched it.

My view as a neutral party in your debate with @joshjull is:
Contract was at least $1M/year too rich for also including a full NMC. Maybe $1.5M per year too rich. I had that opinion/assessment when the deal was signed, and I haven't changed my view.

Semantics, but only BUF could have signed Skinner for an 8 year extension. If he had not extended when he did in late June, two weeks later other clubs could have only offered 7 years in free agency.

Not every GM would have signed him for (7) years x $7-8M, but it is, IMO, disingenuous to believe no one would have. It's also disingenuous to believe Skinner couldn't have received a full 7-year contract offer from someone other than the Sabres in free agency (or that multiple teams wouldn't offer 5+ years at $7m per with a M-NMC using your example above.

$9M for 6 years = $54M, or $7.5-8 for 7 years=~$54M.

I see no reasonable scenario where he signs with BUF for another ~$18M total less than that in your low-bar (not attacking, using it as an adjective) example.

 

[joshjull]

You're right that Skinner didn't have to force a trade, Carolina was more than happy to be rid of him. But he did force the destination.

He forced his way to Buffalo with his NMC in the same way that Hall forced his way to Boston.

You mean he used his trade protection like any player would to control where he ended up. In his case he wanted to get traded closer to home. Also something many players do in that situation. Its a nothingburger that you oddly feel is a character defect.

Do some research? Pot meet kettle.

There's only 9 active forward contracts in the entire league that were signed by 27 year olds or older for 8 years pre pandemic.

I’m somewhat baffled why you think this is some sort of gotcha moment. I asked for examples of these mythical “cup obsessed” players you were talking about. The ones who you claim were taking massive contract discounts in free agency to play for Cup contenders. You gave me zero examples. Instead you posted 9 players who signed like Skinner did. This doesn’t refute or really even address what I posted.

But please, do go on about how every GM in the league would have signed him for 8 years x $7-8m aav. I'm sure you thoroughly researched it.

How could I be talking about every GM in the league when only the Sabres could give him 8yrs? That should have been the tip off I was referring to any other (Sabres ) GM. As in no matter who the Sabres GM was at the time, Skinner was going to get an 8yr deal.

 

[K8fool]

This is the discussion. Waaagh!

I didn't know Skinner got a huge contract .. does he give welfare to people who beg w a GoFunkMe acct?

Skinners' extra two million per year (after scoring 40 w that eichel dude and still wasn't committed to learning that other stat that involves passing and being a decoy under granato. ) is ruining our cup chances..

Okay. Hmmm

They all get 90 % more money than they fn should and tickets prices are as ridiculous as mortgage and car prices.

The scrappy figure skating hockey savant that's FINALLY coming into his own around this team and Thompson makes 95 % more than he should in our hellish Bullsht reality.
Waaaaauh!
Wow.. sabrespacerhosher is rough but they talk hockey.. being reminded how stupid pro sports are as these clueless tools that might be aware and fight beck are bribed to live as dumb a lifestyle as actirs and Hollywood lie artists as well rock touring pillagers.

Look. It's WAS only 20% too much to play w a weird team dynamics and his highness.. 7.9..8.3 etc..no whining. Okay it's fun to be right.. girls like to right .9 blows. But c'mon .I wouldn't cut him this year for eakin even if I could save two years in cap because he'll help the team win . ( Someone will say I sp something wrong and eakin isn't a winger.. yea)

I actually Believe since we aren't close to the cap there arent many players this year that I would trade him for if we could eat 3 million that somehow fits w this group and makes 6 or less that we could get . I kinda like the fight of the little scammer the more he becomes a complete player..
His contract makes him an underdog to actually earn it ( not the friggin money but being In the top twenty percent of scorers and teammates that are confident enough to talk and help win )

This year and maybe next might be the only two years he comes close to that and more as he is finally on a good team that might gel and has enough around him to be unnoticed enough.
I say he gets 5 more goals and 8 more As than last year that puts him above 7.5 fake green laundry bills.. new found assists in between fans cheering and telling their girlfriends he's overpaid while ' party in the ridiculous USA ' plays .. okposo flirts w 50 pts as well..
Only if mitts and most forwards ,all of our D stay healthy..( which happens if you hit and dictate fast play) and we only use 3 goalies this year.
Hopefully that happens and I see different stuff here .

Is there something about kim pegula here , a thread sounds like her kids are worried and we all stick together in our burg..

 

[joshjull]

@BFLO

Stone —> signs 8yr 76mil (9.5mil per) Full NMC on 3/8/19
Skinner -> signs 8yr 72mil (9mil per) Full NMC on 6/7/19
Panarin -> signs 7yr 81.5mil (11.64mil per) Full NMC on 7/1/19

Three big name pending free agents in 2019 who all leveraged their situions for max value deals with full trade protection.

Those deals should really bring home the absurdity of your suggestion Skinner should have signed a 5yr 30mil (6mil per). Thats 42mil total less than he signed for. No pending UFA with Skinner’s goal scoring pedigree in that market is signing for that little. Not a chance in hell that happens.

Most felt Skinner should have gotten 1-1.5mil less a year as @brian_griffin suggested. But thats only 8-12mil total less than what he got and 30-34mil more than you suggest he get paid.

This is what I meant by do your research. If you better understood the market, Skinner’s previous contract and his goal scoring pedigree . Then you would understand the absurdity of your contract suggestion.

 

[Irie]

$7x5 with a M-NTC and I wouldn't have a huge problem with it. The extra 3 years and NMC are maybe worse than the $2 mil AAV overpay.

Everyone in the hockey world and everyone on these boards knew that Botterill screwed up with that skinner deal. We all would have loved for it to be cheaper and shorter, but it is what it is.

A lot of us are putting a positive spin on it because complaining about it is a dead horse that has been beaten to death for years now.

The fact is that Skinner will still be making too much for the next five years, but his contract doesn't hurt the cap situation currently, and in three years time when it is most likely going to be an issue, the cap may jump 10-15 million, so it may never even be an issue.

Currently, Skinner is one of the team's better top 6 player and having him around is helpful. His contract doesn't hurt, so it is a win-win.

Try to be positive about it and you will feel much better about the team, and more than likely, your life will be a little happier

 

[TehDoak]

Being a cap floor last year, this year, AND PROBABLY NEXT YEAR has kinda sorta made the annual salary necessary which is kinda funny.. Or not funny. We need to overpay him. Its amazing.

I feel so much better about the deal now than a year and a half ago. We don't need to buyout the contract which is a damn good thing.

If given the opportunity to rid us of this contract via buyout or trade we absolutely should.

 

[BFLO]

@BFLO

Stone —> signs 8yr 76mil (9.5mil per) Full NMC on 3/8/19
Skinner -> signs 8yr 72mil (9mil per) Full NMC on 6/7/19
Panarin -> signs 7yr 81.5mil (11.64mil per) Full NMC on 7/1/19

Three big name pending free agents in 2019 who all leveraged their situions for max value deals with full trade protection.

Those deals should really bring home the absurdity of your suggestion Skinner should have signed a 5yr 30mil (6mil per). Thats 42mil total less than he signed for. No pending UFA with Skinner’s goal scoring pedigree in that market is signing for that little. Not a chance in hell that happens.

Most felt Skinner should have gotten 1-1.5mil less a year as @brian_griffin suggested. But thats only 8-12mil total less than what he got and 30-34mil more than you suggest he get paid.

This is what I meant by do your research. If you better understood the market, Skinner’s previous contract and his goal scoring pedigree . Then you would understand the absurdity of your contract suggestion.

Skinner may score more goals than Panarin or Stone in his good years, but he's miles worse at everything else.

He tilts the ice far, far less than those guys.

Trying to justify Skinners contract by pointing out the contracts that 2 much better players got in the same off season does not mean you understand the market.

JVR is a much closer player comparable to Skinner. He signed for $7x5 one season prior, and most people thought it was a 1-2mil aav overpay. Skinner is better than JVR, so $7mil seems a fair price for him. Taking a $1mil avv discount to fit onto a cup contender doesn't seem absurd under those circumstances.

 

[brian_griffin]

If given the opportunity to rid us of this contract via buyout or trade we absolutely should.

<tongue partially in cheek>
Next season Bishop's ~$5M and Okposo's $6M are gone, and TT's ~$7M will be on the books. That net -$4M will be absorbed in QOs to the other roster players.
No pending Sabre UFAs are worth big-dollar contracts.
No pending RFAs are worth big-dollar contracts.
I have no interest in either buying out or trading Skinner to then have you or others complain how cheap BUF is when they sign another LTIR contract which is ~80% paid for by an insurance company and not Daddy Pegulabucks. Or, alternatively, they turn around and sign another mercenary like Taylor Hall whose on-ice effort and contribution don't live up to the $ value of the contract.

Skinner is overpaid.
Skinner is an imperfect hockey player.
But he wants to be in BUF, and gives honest effort.
I'd rather take the devil I know than the devil I don't.
More practically, Skinner will be in BUF for at least this season and next before it is even worth entertaining a buyout or trade.

I'm confident Adams / Karmanos will be able to keep Skinner for the duration of his contract if they must. If they buy him out or trade him (low odds of both, IMO) fine. I'm not worried either way. At all.

Food for thought:
What if Sabres / Adams / Karmanos are actually doing it right and a large number of NHL clubs wish they had the Sabres roster / team control / cap allocations over the next 5-6 years?

 

[TehDoak]

Food for thought:
What if Sabres / Adams / Karmanos are actually doing it right and a large number of NHL clubs wish they had the Sabres roster / team control / cap allocations over the next 5-6 years?

I'd assume they'd rather have winning teams.

 

[brian_griffin]

I'd assume they'd rather have winning teams.

That's a false dichotomy, and you're too smart to not know that.

While it is generally true that playoff teams typically have higher payrolls than non-playoff teams, it is clearly not an absolute, and the correlation is in no way perfect. There are numerous examples of teams which spend above, at, or near the cap and either don't make the playoffs or not even come close to the playoffs. (In the near-past, BUF has been on that list.)

Moreover, I posit that team payroll is more strongly correlated to average roster age than to ranked points finish.

 

[La Cosa Nostra]

Not a SINGLE 40 goal scorer is signing for 6 million and definitely not 5 years. He was getting 7+ no question. Did we Overpay a few mil? Yep. Is Skinner the best goal scorer we have had in 10 years? Yep.

 

[LongWayDown37]

Skinner may score more goals than Panarin or Stone in his good years, but he's miles worse at everything else.

He tilts the ice far, far less than those guys.

Trying to justify Skinners contract by pointing out the contracts that 2 much better players got in the same off season does not mean you understand the market.

JVR is a much closer player comparable to Skinner. He signed for $7x5 one season prior, and most people thought it was a 1-2mil aav overpay. Skinner is better than JVR, so $7mil seems a fair price for him. Taking a $1mil avv discount to fit onto a cup contender doesn't seem absurd under those circumstances.

What are you still doing here?! No one. Nobody!! actually thinks its a good contract.

 

[brian_griffin]

What are you still doing here?! No one. Nobody!! actually thinks its a good contract.

And, despite the overpay, most people think is not a problem for several years, and may not be a problem even after then.

 

[TehDoak]

Not a SINGLE 40 goal scorer is signing for 6 million and definitely not 5 years. He was getting 7+ no question. Did we Overpay a few mil? Yep. Is Skinner the best goal scorer we have had in 10 years? Yep.

Thomas Vanek was traded in 2013....

 

[Bendium]

What are you still doing here?! No one. Nobody!! actually thinks its a good contract.

Your right. Noone thinks it is a good contract.

Most however do not think it is a disaster either.

It is an OK contract, for a really good hockey player. It is going to be ok man...its going to be ok.

 

[LongWayDown37]

Your right. Noone thinks it is a good contract.

Most however do not think it is a disaster either.

It is an OK contract, for a really good hockey player. It is going to be ok man...its going to be ok.

Right. Thats my point...