2024-25 Kraken Roster discussion

[The Marquis]

13/6 or 12/7?

I thought it was 23 players max(22 is mostly done for some cover in case of injuries) on an active roster which means 13/7 or 12/8 + 2 goalies.

With Fleury being waived I think it's going to be 13/7 unless they can't do it because of financial reasons.

Overall I think Winterton starts in CV given that Hayden got a fully guaranteed $750K deal and no team wants to send those guys down. He's also not a young guy anymore and sitting him in the press box is not going to slow down his development.

So I think it will be:
Forwards:
Beniers, Bjorkstrand, Burakovsky, Eberle, Gourde, Hayden, Kartye, McCann, Schwartz, Stephenson, Tanev, Tolvanen, Wright

Defense:
Dunn, Montour, Larsson, Oleksiak, Evans, Borgen, Mahoura

Goal:
Grubauer, D'Accord

Unfortunately, unless we trade somebody who makes real money away, there’s $750,000ish too few cap dollars to keep 22 players. It’ll have to be 21. Unless somebody gets hurt, of course.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

The three most likely candidates we would like to move are Schwartz > Tanev > Gourde. Unfortunately, all 3 have M-NTC's and outside of Gourde I just don't see how we move any of those 3. We should definitely try to do something preferably before the 11th (1st road trip) but hopefully atleast before the 28th when we have our 1st long road trip.

The other option ofcourse is moving Tolvy, but I really don't want to do that.

 

[The Marquis]

The three most likely candidates we would like to move are Schwartz > Tanev > Gourde. Unfortunately, all 3 have M-NTC's and outside of Gourde I just don't see how we move any of those 3. We should definitely try to do something preferably before the 11th (1st road trip) but hopefully atleast before the 28th when we have our 1st long road trip.

The other option ofcourse is moving Tolvy, but I really don't want to do that.

For the first time, I think we already have guys on the team who can straight up replace the role those 3 have played in previous seasons. I'm less certain on Schwartz so I'll leave him out of my comments, but I think Kartye and Stephenson pretty much fill in what we'd lose with Tanev and Gourde. I think if you take them both as package deals, the trade off is pretty even, maybe better with the former.

 

[RainyCityHockey]

Unfortunately, unless we trade somebody who makes real money away, there’s $750,000ish too few cap dollars to keep 22 players. It’ll have to be 21. Unless somebody gets hurt, of course.

Thanks for the information.
I stand corrected on this one @gstommylee

The three most likely candidates we would like to move are Schwartz > Tanev > Gourde. Unfortunately, all 3 have M-NTC's and outside of Gourde I just don't see how we move any of those 3. We should definitely try to do something preferably before the 11th (1st road trip) but hopefully atleast before the 28th when we have our 1st long road trip.

The other option ofcourse is moving Tolvy, but I really don't want to do that.

I don't think you trade a center, at this point of the season(or before it starts), especially with two out of your four centers being pretty young.

Gourde, if traded, would also be way more valuable to other teams around the TDL and not at this point with everyone already having build their roster and teams interested(meaning contenders) not able to trade for him without sending back nearly as much money.

I wouldn't mind trading Schwartz or Tanev but I don't really see a market there.

Maybe for Tanev, if you retain some of it, but Schwartz clearly is a negative and needs assets attached to him in order for it to be a possibility of a trade.
Especially with the fact that we're negotiating from a point of weakness with everyone knowing that we need tu cut salary.

For the first time, I think we already have guys on the team who can straight up replace the role those 3 have played in previous seasons. I'm less certain on Schwartz so I'll leave him out of my comments, but I think Kartye and Stephenson pretty much fill in what we'd lose with Tanev and Gourde. I think if you take them both as package deals, the trade off is pretty even, maybe better with the former.

I think unless we have a fantastic season and a clrearly in a playoff spot come TDL, Gourde is our prime trade chip and should bring us something nice in return.

BTW: Overall I'm not sure how the fu*** you're in this kind of financial trouble(to play a full roster) with the kind of talent we have on this team...

 

[gstommylee]

Thanks for the information.
I stand corrected on this one @gstommylee



I don't think you trade a center, at this point of the season(or before it starts), especially with two out of your four centers being pretty young.

Gourde, if traded, would also be way more valuable to other teams around the TDL and not at this point with everyone already having build their roster and teams interested(meaning contenders) not able to trade for him without sending back nearly as much money.

I wouldn't mind trading Schwartz or Tanev but I don't really see a market there.

Maybe for Tanev, if you retain some of it, but Schwartz clearly is a negative and needs assets attached to him in order for it to be a possibility of a trade.
Especially with the fact that we're negotiating from a point of weakness with everyone knowing that we need tu cut salary.



I think unless we have a fantastic season and a clrearly in a playoff spot come TDL, Gourde is our prime trade chip and should bring us something nice in return.

BTW: Overall I'm not sure how the fu*** you're in this kind of financial trouble(to play a full roster) with the kind of talent we have on this team...

gorude with a 23 team no list and 5m cap hit whos way more valuable to stay with the team.

 

[The Marquis]

gorude with a 23 team no list and 5m cap hit whos way more valuable to stay with the team.

That 23 team list is a "yes" list, not a "no" list. so he's in effect got an 8-team no trade list.

Tanev has a 10 team "no" list

Schwartz has a No Trade List now instead of a full no move clause, but I don't see any info about how many teams can be on it.

 

[gstommylee]

That 23 team list is a "yes" list, not a "no" list. so he's in effect got an 8-team no trade list.

Tanev has a 10 team "no" list

Schwartz has a No Trade List now instead of a full no move clause, but I don't see any info about how many teams can be on it.

23 team no list for gorude.

 

[The Marquis]

23 team no list for gorude.

You're incorrect, it's not a "no trade". It's a "trade list". He had a full no-trade in 2019-2022, modified to a 22 team TRADE list, not a NO TRADE list. Then this season that list increased to 23 teams. Weird that the Bolts would negotiate a single team added to that trade list.

Since you aren't, I'll site some sources. I search google for "Yanni Gourde no trade list" and was unable to find any source citing a "no trade" list. Everything was a "yes" list.

Yanni Gourde | NHL Contracts & Salaries | Spotrac.com

Yanni Gourde contract and salary cap details, full contract breakdowns, salaries, signing bonus, roster bonus, dead money, and valuations.

www.spotrac.com

Players With No-Move, No-Trade Clauses In 2024-25

While NHL contracts are usually structured much simpler than those in other major professional sports, they do feature one commonality …

www.prohockeyrumors.com

Yanni Gourde | 6yrs x 5.167M (SEA)

Yanni Gourde signed a 6 year, $31,000,000 contract with the Tampa Bay Lightning on Nov. 2, 2018. The contract has a cap hit of $5,166,666.

capwages.com

I can't get on a couple of other hockey contract sites due to my employer strangely blocking them.

 

[gstommylee]

so how come gourde hasn't been traded yet? maybe be cause we would be worse with out gorude just for the sake of keeping tanev who has zero value of keeping on this team.

On top of that, that basically mean winterton is in the AHL instead of being another healthy scratch.

Having meyers instead of gorude does squat to actually improve things. I rather stick with 21 guys than trading gourde just for the sake of having an extra forward that won't do much to improve things. No offense to hayden.

 

[Fuhrious]

IMO the real head scratcher regarding the Kraken forward group is why the hell Francis hasnt moved Tanev, dump or not.

 

[gstommylee]

IMO the real head scratcher regarding the Kraken forward group is why the hell Francis hasnt moved Tanev, dump or not.

i have no idea and its sarting to really annoy me. At this point i don't give a rip start the season and hope it doesn't bite the team in the rear. (it will)

 

[Fuhrious]

I guess less of a head scratcher but still one just the same, is whether Francis is maximizing the asset that is Gourde given that his potential value in trade is probably higher than his on-ice value for the Kraken, a bubble team. He's "nice to have" and all, legitimately a strong candidate for a team captain...but would he be worth more to the team as it currently stands as a trade chip, and Francis is frittering that away for reasons?

 

[gstommylee]

I guess less of a head scratcher but still one just the same, is whether Francis is maximizing the asset that is Gourde given that his potential value in trade is probably higher than his on-ice value for the Kraken, a bubble team. He's "nice to have" and all, legitimately a strong candidate for a team captain...but would he be worth more to the team as it currently stands as a trade chip, and Francis is frittering that away for reasons?

Getting rid of gorude and replacing him with meyers does nothing to improve the team winterton still ends up in the AHL then being a healthy scratch.

 

[Fuhrious]

Getting rid of gorude and replacing him with meyers does nothing to improve the team winterton still ends up in the AHL then being a healthy scratch.

The question is “does what he return in trade, now, when his trade value is at its highest and will only go down from here” exceed the value he brings on the ice to a team that’s likely a playoff bubble squad with or without him.

And I’m saying I think it’s arguable, and entirely possible Francis is missing yet another opportunity to maximize asset value.

 

[The Marquis]

Good thing we don't have long to figure it out.

 

[gstommylee]

The question is “does what he return in trade, now, when his trade value is at its highest and will only go down from here” exceed the value he brings on the ice to a team that’s likely a playoff bubble squad with or without him.

And I’m saying I think it’s arguable, and entirely possible Francis is missing yet another opportunity to maximize asset value.

Cap dumps doesn't really provide much benefit the team trading the player away especially this late in pre-season other than cap space. We aren't getting assets in return we'll probably have to give up a pick/prospect and eat saalary just to dump gourde. It'll be far cheaper cost for seattle to dump tanev than it is to dump gourde The only way to get max value is at the trade deadline.

Kartyle - gourde - tanev is no different than kartye meyers tanev. Winterton is not going to be on the roster if all he's going to is be a healthy scratch where as a kartyle - gourde- winterton is way better for this team.

 

[majormajor]

so how come gourde hasn't been traded yet? maybe be cause we would be worse with out gorude just for the sake of keeping tanev who has zero value of keeping on this team.

The question is “does what he return in trade, now, when his trade value is at its highest and will only go down from here” exceed the value he brings on the ice to a team that’s likely a playoff bubble squad with or without him.

And I’m saying I think it’s arguable, and entirely possible Francis is missing yet another opportunity to maximize asset value.

Players in Gourde's position are usually held until the trade deadline. I think his value will be higher then.

Or it could be that Gourde falls apart or gets injured and we don't get anything. It's a risk, but typically teams keep these guys until the deadline.

IMO the real head scratcher regarding the Kraken forward group is why the hell Francis hasnt moved Tanev, dump or not.

It seems rather obvious to me that it is a very difficult contract to move. $3.5m for a degrading 4th liner who has a partial NTC. It would likely cost us picks to move him, and I don't mean later round picks.

 

[gstommylee]

Players in Gourde's position are usually held until the trade deadline. I think his value will be higher then.

Or it could be that Gourde falls apart or gets injured and we don't get anything. It's a risk, but typically teams keep these guys until the deadline.



It seems rather obvious to me that it is a very difficult contract to move. $3.5m for a degrading 4th liner who has a partial NTC. It would likely cost us picks to move him, and I don't mean later round picks.

Its easier to move 3.5m cap hit than it is to move 5m cap hit.

 

[majormajor]

Its easier to move 3.5m cap hit than it is to move 5m cap hit.

No one wants either right now. At the deadline they'll pay up for Gourde but teams have their cap accounted for at the moment.

I would certainly call Columbus about Tanev, maybe they'd accept a third rounder to take him. Though they're probably on his NTC.

 

[gstommylee]

Players in Gourde's position are usually held until the trade deadline. I think his value will be higher then.

Or it could be that Gourde falls apart or gets injured and we don't get anything. It's a risk, but typically teams keep these guys until the deadline.



It seems rather obvious to me that it is a very difficult contract to move. $3.5m for a degrading 4th liner who has a partial NTC. It would likely cost us picks to move him, and I don't mean later round picks.

both gourde and tanev have partial NTCs so its kinda irrelevant.

No one wants either right now. At the deadline they'll pay up for Gourde but teams have their cap accounted for at the moment.

I would certainly call Columbus about Tanev, maybe they'd accept a third rounder to take him. Though they're probably on his NTC.

there are teams that still have cap space avaiable now. Flames, columbus, sharks, ducks

 

[majormajor]

there are teams that still have cap space avaiable now. Flames, columbus, sharks, ducks

And are they interested in spending it?

 

[The Marquis]

Id think the key here is retention. That’s the only way we’re moving anybody.

 

[gstommylee]

Id think the key here is retention. That’s the only way we’re moving anybody.

tanev we can afford to eat some and still have enough for a full roster i just don't think getting rid of gourde doesn't do seattle anything more other than having hayden as a healthy scratch. No way winterton should be a healthy scratch at all.

 

[Fuhrious]

Cap dumps doesn't really provide much benefit the team trading the player away especially this late in pre-season other than cap space. We aren't getting assets in return we'll probably have to give up a pick/prospect and eat saalary just to dump gourde. It'll be far cheaper cost for seattle to dump tanev than it is to dump gourde The only way to get max value is at the trade deadline.

Kartyle - gourde - tanev is no different than kartye meyers tanev. Winterton is not going to be on the roster if all he's going to is be a healthy scratch where as a kartyle - gourde- winterton is way better for this team.

We're not "cap dumping" Gourde, brother. If you honestly think that, I'd love some of whatever you're smoking.

If your contention is "we missed the window and now there are no suitors because they've all used their cap space", I dont disagree with that. However, it's another check in the "Francis is mishandling this" column.

 

[gstommylee]

We're not "cap dumping" Gourde, brother. If you honestly think that, I'd love some of whatever you're smoking.

If your contention is "we missed the window and now there are no suitors because they've all used their cap space", I dont disagree with that. However, it's another check in the "Francis is mishandling this" column.

That's exactly what it is. We need cap space and need to get rid of a contract. That's cap dumping regardless of which ever contract we get rid off. Teams know that and aren't gonna let us get rid of a contract just like that and expect us to get a return on it.