Confirmed with Link: Jeff Skinner -- Bought Out 6/29/24

[Buffaloed]

Inside the Sabres' curious decision to keep Jeff Skinner as a healthy scratch – The Athletic

There was a blurb in Vogl's article in the Athletic that said:

"There are rumblings that the left winger has not embraced (or even attempted) the extra work being asked to shore up his deficiencies."

So while Skinner is competent, amiable, and professional in front of the mic I don't think that means that he isn't ignoring the coaches or being difficult behind the scenes

I think scratching someone like Skinner when the team isn't scoring is a very risky move for Krueger to make, and I don't think he'd make it if Skinner wasn't doing something egregious--despite both his and Skinner's statements about the other acting professionally

Krueger played a major role in getting Skinner to sign with the Sabres. My guess is Krueger misled Skinner about how he would be used and what his role would be with the team.

 

[explore]

Krueger played a major role in getting Skinner to sign with the Sabres. My guess is Krueger misled Skinner about how he would be used and what his role would be with the team.

How much convincing did a guy who restricted his trade options to Toronto and Buffalo really need? He was given $9 million a year for 8 years with a full NMC, that's some terrible negotiating

 

[Buffaloed]

How much convincing did a guy who restricted his trade options to Toronto and Buffalo really need? He was given $9 million a year for 8 years with a full NMC, that's some terrible negotiating

The issue is did Krueger misrepresent to Skinner what his role with the team would be.

 

[explore]

The issue is did Krueger misrepresent to Skinner what his role with the team would be.

Why should that matter at all when he's being paid $9 million a year?

He signed a contract that pays him like someone who can produce on his own, and he hasn't produced since the first half of the 2018-2019 season

If this was the NFL, he would've been cut

 

[5 Minute Major]

Ralph and Skinner are both problems.

 

[Man of Principles]

Just follow the principles, Jeff.

 

[Bones Malone]

I bet he's not managing his energy up to Ralph's standards

 

[Fezzy126]

Inside the Sabres' curious decision to keep Jeff Skinner as a healthy scratch – The Athletic

There was a blurb in Vogl's article in the Athletic that said:

"There are rumblings that the left winger has not embraced (or even attempted) the extra work being asked to shore up his deficiencies."

So while Skinner is competent, amiable, and professional in front of the mic I don't think that means that he isn't ignoring the coaches or being difficult behind the scenes

I think scratching someone like Skinner when the team isn't scoring is a very risky move for Krueger to make, and I don't think he'd make it if Skinner wasn't doing something egregious--despite both his and Skinner's statements about the other acting professionally

Here's the problem; there's a long list of players that have 'deficiencies' like Skinner. Good coaches find a way to work with those players.

For example, Jordan Eberle was a one-dimensional, streaky goal scorer that didn't put the effort in away from the puck. Check this story on Eberle from the Hockey Writers (yes I know they're trash but it does accurately reflect the views of Oilers fans during that time)

The Jordan Eberle Problem

Anything above sound familiar? Now that he's with a coach like Trotz, you know who you don't hear about being a problem anymore? Yup, Eberle.

It's funny, when Krueger was first hired I made a comment about how all I heard from him are managerial buzzwords and cliches. One of the biggest cliches from upper management and consultants in the business world is getting the right people to do the right things. It basically means you shouldn't have to fire or hire a bunch of people, that's rarely the answer, it's just that your organization probably isn't running as efficiently as it could be. Once you take a closer look at what you're asking people to do vs what you should be asking them to do you can become a more efficient business.

Watching Krueger I get none of this...

 

[BritSabre]

Such a sapping story. Keep finding new ways to embaress ourselves. It's only going to reduce the potential pool of players and staff interested in joining the organisation and make escaping that much more insurmountable.

 

[Member 308457]

I like the Hockey Guy's discussion of Skinner. He also brings up the point that the signing of Taylor Hall affected Jeff Skinner's spot on the team.

 

[joshjull]

Inside the Sabres' curious decision to keep Jeff Skinner as a healthy scratch – The Athletic

There was a blurb in Vogl's article in the Athletic that said:

"There are rumblings that the left winger has not embraced (or even attempted) the extra work being asked to shore up his deficiencies."

So while Skinner is competent, amiable, and professional in front of the mic I don't think that means that he isn't ignoring the coaches or being difficult behind the scenes

I think scratching someone like Skinner when the team isn't scoring is a very risky move for Krueger to make, and I don't think he'd make it if Skinner wasn't doing something egregious--despite both his and Skinner's statements about the other acting professionally

You’re really trying hard to make this about Skinner and some nefarious attitude behind the scenes.


His handling of Skinner is not an isolated situation and the only example where Krueger isn’t making things work. He has a lot of player usage decisions that make little or no sense that he stubbornly refuses to let go of.

- Like icing a 3rd line thats one of the worst in the NHL. Where is the culture of accountability there?

- Playing Olofsson on the top line when he’s already shown over a season plus that he isn’t a very good 5v5.

- Thinking Sobotka is a 2nd line defensive anchor or Mojo makes sense as a 2nd line shutdown center.

- Icing players like Irwin and Davidson when young kids like Borgen/Bryson should have been given a chance.

- Not even letting Mitts get a chance in the top 6 and giving him a 28% OZS%. Easily the dumbest use of a player like Mitts. Yet Tage keeps getting extra chances to fail in the top 6. Why?


Thats a coach making a lot of poor to really bad player usage decisions of which Skinner is yet another.

The idea that there is a culture of accountability on this team is a complete pile of bullshit.

 

[joshjull]

@explore


At its simplist, the problem with Krueger is once he’s made up his mind about a player he usually stubbornly clings to that perception. Sometimes he changes his mind but its not that common.

Its why players who play terribly but he thinks highly of (like the entire 3rd line) gets a ridiculous pass for their terrible play.

Specific to Skinner, Krueger had already decided before LAST season even started that Skinner shouldn’t be on PP1, not go out with the goalie pulled, not play in OT, not play with Jack and he wasn’t going to give him favorable OZS.

Krueger had decided on this course before Skinner had ever played a game for him. It was based entirely on his perception of the type of player he feels Skinner is.

 

[joshjull]

The dumbest thing about all this is there is a pretty straightforward way to get more out of Skinner and keep him out of the top 6 like Krueger wants.

Just ice a bottom 6 scoring line getting an offensively skewed deployment. Leave Eakin if you want for faceoffs/PK and put Mitts on other wing. Then drop Reider or Okposo to the 4th line and sit the other.

Krueger may accidentally do this next game. Since he doesn’t want Mitts in the top 6 Lazar gets the top center spot. That puts Skinner/Mitts together on the 4th line. Whether they get an offensively skewed deployment is another matter.

But the sad thing is a line like this is never going to be possible once Jack comes back because Krueger five golden boys in the bottom 6 will never leave the lineup (Reider, Eakin, Okposo, Lazar, Sheahan). His vet/PKer love affair won’t allow it.

 

[OkimLom]

I like the Hockey Guy's discussion of Skinner. He also brings up the point that the signing of Taylor Hall affected Jeff Skinner's spot on the team.

the signing of Hall had nothing to do with Skinner losing his spot.

The hiring of Ralph did that. The type of ice time for Jeff has been deteriorating since Ralph got here. Victor has essentially taken Jeff’s spot on the team.

 

[explore]

You’re really trying hard to make this about Skinner and some nefarious attitude behind the scenes.

I literally quoted Vogl from his article

 

[joshjull]

I literally quoted Vogl from his article

I know and then you speculated from there.

 

[explore]

I know

I think it's fair to say that I've been biased against Skinner in some of my posts, but my main point is what 5 Minute Major said: Both Krueger and Skinner are issues, and I don't think Skinner's utilization falls completely on Krueger and Vogl's comment reinforces that view

 

[joshjull]

I think it's fair to say that I've been biased against Skinner in some of my posts, but my main point is what 5 Minute Major said: Both Krueger and Skinner are issues, and I don't think Skinner's utilization falls completely on Krueger and Vogl's comment reinforces that view

Of course it does. In Krueger’s line structure 4th line LW is the only spot available to Skinner. Thats the case no matter how he plays.

You must have bought into the fairy tales Krueger was spinning about Skinner having chance to work his way off the 4th line. To where? Krueger doesn't view him as top 6 winger, said so recently and wouldn’t move any of the current top 6 wingers to but Skinner there. He also wont break up the 3rd line no matter how crappy they play. We have 10+ games of them playing as one of the worst lines in hockey to a back that up.

The thing is I don’t even care about Krueger playing Skinner were he has. I’ve defended it a lot and I know he’s the type of forward that can drive coaches crazy.. But he can spare me with the bullshit about sitting him over “principles” or because of a “culture of accountability”. He was playing better than most forwards and all of those on the 3rd line. He was sat because he wasn’t scoring and doesn’t PK. Plus they wanted to give Mitts a chance and Krueger will never sit the golden 5 in the bottom 6.

But Krueger just won’t own a decision like that for the obvious reason he did it. He keeps changing his reasons and makes it about the player and him not buying into “principles”.

I also hard to listen to talk about a culture of responsibility from a coach that keeps icing that joke of a 3rd line.

 

[Buffaloed]

What Brind'Amour plans to do if Jeff Skinner stays with the Hurricanes

Rod feels your pain.
How will you get the most out of Jeff Skinner?
“That’s the question, isn’t it? If you want to give me some advice, I’d take it.”

“I’ve been around Jeff, I know him. Jeff’s one of the smartest players we have. He knows how to play. I think he hasn’t been held quite to the standard we need to hold him to. I think if he is, and realizes, ‘Man, I’ve got to do it that way or I won’t get out here,’ I think you’ll see a different Jeff Skinner.
“That’s what I’m hoping, is that he comes back with that attitude.”

"Now we’ve got guys to push him out of spots. If you’re not going to quite dig in every shift then maybe you don’t get every shift. That’s definitely what I’m trying to preach and I’ve got to back that up. Now I have, from the top, the authority to do it that way, which is the right way. And Jeff, I think he wants that, too. We know he can do it. We just need him to do it every night.”

 

[Kuznetsnow]

Not a Sabres fan but how does Krueger still have a job? How can ownership stomach him coming in with intent to bury a 72 million dollar player (albeit flawed one)? That's a huge investment that he's turning into a franchise anchor. It's not like Krueger's decisions are leading to winning games

 

[Yatzhee]

Not a Sabres fan but how does Krueger still have a job? How can ownership stomach him coming in with intent to bury a 72 million dollar player (albeit flawed one)? That's a huge investment that he's turning into a franchise anchor. It's not like Krueger's decisions are leading to winning games

None of us are really sure what the Pegulas game plan is.
Adams is the GM, yet it appears he's merely a figure head as Hall signed in Buffalo reportedly because of the Krueger connection. In the mean time, coach Ralph Krueger's player personnel decisions are beyond suspect, they are baffling to many.
Skinner can still pot 30 goals a season, if he's placed with the right linemates, but that contract is 2.5 million to high. The only hope the Sabres have is compliance buyouts, otherwise both prior GM's, Tim Muraay and Jason Botterill have handcuffed 15 million dollars of cap space for 3 years following this season and 9 million for an additional 3 past that.
The management hiring by the Pegulas to date are the real harm done to this team, way more than the players play in any event.

 

[tatertot843]

I wonder if Carolina can get Skinner back at 90% retained. Lol.

 

[truthbluth]

Not a Sabres fan but how does Krueger still have a job? How can ownership stomach him coming in with intent to bury a 72 million dollar player (albeit flawed one)? That's a huge investment that he's turning into a franchise anchor. It's not like Krueger's decisions are leading to winning games

It’s f***ing mystifying honestly

 

[explore]

Of course it does. In Krueger’s line structure 4th line LW is the only spot available to Skinner. Thats the case no matter how he plays.

You must have bought into the fairy tales Krueger was spinning about Skinner having chance to work his way off the 4th line. To where? Krueger doesn't view him as top 6 winger, said so recently and wouldn’t move any of the current top 6 wingers to but Skinner there. He also wont break up the 3rd line no matter how crappy they play. We have 10+ games of them playing as one of the worst lines in hockey to a back that up.

The thing is I don’t even care about Krueger playing Skinner were he has. I’ve defended it a lot and I know he’s the type of forward that can drive coaches crazy.. But he can spare me with the bullshit about sitting him over “principles” or because of a “culture of accountability”. He was playing better than most forwards and all of those on the 3rd line. He was sat because he wasn’t scoring and doesn’t PK. Plus they wanted to give Mitts a chance and Krueger will never sit the golden 5 in the bottom 6.

But Krueger just won’t own a decision like that for the obvious reason he did it. He keeps changing his reasons and makes it about the player and him not buying into “principles”.

I also hard to listen to talk about a culture of responsibility from a coach that keeps icing that joke of a 3rd line.

I think you're trying too hard to make it sound like Skinner has done nothing wrong when even Vogl is saying that Skinner may not be listening to coaches and putting in the work others have been putting in

Tortorella would've benched Skinner had he done the same thing, so would any competent coach

You can argue hypotheticals about other coaches avoiding this situation altogether, but that's not the reality as it exists today

 

[OkimLom]

I think you're trying too hard to make it sound like Skinner has done nothing wrong when even Vogl is saying that Skinner may not be listening to coaches and putting in the work others have been putting in

Tortorella would've benched Skinner had he done the same thing, so would any competent coach

You can argue hypotheticals about other coaches avoiding this situation altogether, but that's not the reality as it exists today

we don’t know what Jeff did wrong outside the typical coach speak you hear when players are not playing up to standards? We don’t know how severe he’s not following the coaches orders. Of course the media will ROR 2.0 this because that what they do.

based on the team play and Jeff’s play, whatever Jeff is doing wrong, it’s not costing us games at a clip out of the ordinary.

Regardless of what Jeff is doing wrong, I doubt it’s at the point of needing to scratch him for 3 games, not to mention this isn’t the first season Ralph has messed with Skinners ice time. If Ralph wanted to build a culture of accountability he should’ve started that last year.