Confirmed with Link: Jeff Skinner -- Bought Out 6/29/24

[DolanPlsGoSabres]

Observations: Sabres refuse to take excuses in solid win over Devils
Krueger said he understands the fan and media chatter around Skinner, who has no goals and one point this season, while making $9 million.
"We are aware of that. It is a noise that's deserved for the entire situation," Krueger said. "We are working in a constructive way here hoping that watching a couple of games will free him and allow him to bring his tools and his assets into our game. We need his game. We need his 5-on-5 scoring. We need his threat."

Anyone want to translate this?

It's a situation where there's noise that's deserved and we are aware of that.

The rest is a bit difficult to translate in Jason Botterillese.

 

[Cirris]

Observations: Sabres refuse to take excuses in solid win over Devils
Krueger said he understands the fan and media chatter around Skinner, who has no goals and one point this season, while making $9 million.
"We are aware of that. It is a noise that's deserved for the entire situation," Krueger said. "We are working in a constructive way here hoping that watching a couple of games will free him and allow him to bring his tools and his assets into our game. We need his game. We need his 5-on-5 scoring. We need his threat."

Anyone want to translate this?

I'm really just calling BS on this. the stats are clear. Since last year when Krueger took over, Skinner has spent more time on the 4th line than anywhere else.

The last thing you do with a struggling scoring winger is to just bury him in a low minutes, checking line role. Then Bench him for not producing and call it a "watching..free him" thing.

There's more to this BS that he's spewing.

I'm starting to miss the Bylsma days.

 

[K8fool]

Observations: Sabres refuse to take excuses in solid win over Devils
Krueger said he understands the fan and media chatter around Skinner, who has no goals and one point this season, while making $9 million.
"We are aware of that. It is a noise that's deserved for the entire situation," Krueger said. "We are working in a constructive way here hoping that watching a couple of games will free him and allow him to bring his tools and his assets into our game. We need his game. We need his 5-on-5 scoring. We need his threat."

Anyone want to translate this?

Skinner hasnt scored in a year. Any tactic is better than status quo. Asplund and Mitts have morw points in less games on third amd fourth lines.

I don't care what RK does as long as Hutton never gets a start..

 

[Jim Bob]

I get what you’re saying with the bolded but why is Skinner the only one held to that standard 5v5? Hall and Olofsson certainly aren’t held to that standard and they have far more advantageous deployments.

I get why Hall (positive history with Ralph) and VO (PP production gives hope for ES production) are getting treated differently.

Plus, it just seems like something happened last year that spoiled the Skinner-Ralph relationship and it hasn't gotten better this year.

Krueger won’t let Skinner; play on PP1, play with Jack, get offensively skewed OZ deployments, go out with goalie pulled and won’t play him in OT. The only one of those decisions that makes sense is PP1 because of how good they’ve been. But Krueger wouldn’t play him there last year either when they weren’t good.

Who are you taking off PP1 to put Skinner in there?

With this team living off the PP, taking someone off an effective PP and putting Skinner in there might be a riskier move than scratching Skinner is.

All of the above are ways a coach can help a player struggling to score gain some confidence they can hopefully carrying forward. If there was a way to design a forward deployment to suck the confidence out of a goal scorer I think Krueger found it.

The tough part to guess at from the outside is that there has to be something going on behind the scenes that we don't know about.

It makes spit balling ideas that much more difficult.

 

[dang111]

Scratched for the 3rd straight game wow. What is going on? Feels like there has to be something deeper...

 

[Nikolajs Sillers]

Many people saying that Skinner plays on forth line that's why he not scores. Is forth lines not allowed to score in the NHL or something?

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

They really want Skinner off the team so they can sign Hall. Could it be that simple?

 

[Member 308457]

Maybe he *^&$ed Hasek's wife?

 

[kirby11]

And deeper into the dumpster fire we dive!

If you're anyone but a vet player hoping to get a big fat retirement contract and coast (not accusing Skinner of doing that, to be clear, but his salary is on that level of pay), why would you sign here?

Skinner goes from killing it with Eichel and potting 40 to having the next coach seemingly hate him to the point that he's healthy scratched after not scoring while playing with such offensive wizards as Curtis Lazar and Riley Sheahan.

If you're a young UDFA, Euro FA, or even a young draft pick a few years out from being selected trying to make a name for yourself and stick in the league, congrats, the Sabres will bury you in the AHL while worse veteran options draw in over you every night.

And the Pegulas' lap-dog of a GM apparently has nothing to say about this whole mess. Cool.

 

[Club]

#FreeJeffAntipin-lut

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

They really want Skinner off the team so they can sign Hall. Could it be that simple?

Yeah, he's giving up his $54 M owed or some other team is taking it.

 

[Buffaloed]

Skinner and Krueger end the feud.

 

[sabremike]

Skinner and Krueger end the feud.

They are going to trade him for Tyce???

 

[Ygo]

I feel better about it after RK addressed. I don't agree... simply put, he seems better to me 5v5 than VO. That said, we do not know what the Sabres analytics shows. Skinner is not particularly strong at Zone exits (or dump ins lol) and maybe the team values those types of things over consensus xG modelling.

RK flat out said Skinner is not good enough to play in the top 6 and is a depth scorer on this team. 53 doesn't penalty kill and you need PKers in the line up, so 13, 15, 20, 27 (21 as back up and 74 as next back up) are all relatively safe. So it comes down to one spot between him, 37 and 72. Mitts has been pretty good so far. I prefer a line up with 53 in it (you are already stuck with the cap hit), but, I get the reasoning - and frankly, would not want to pull any of 4, 23 or 24 out of the top 6 (and I get why a coach would like 68 up there).

If nothing else, it makes a dead spot in the season more dramatic.

 

[joshjull]

I get why Hall (positive history with Ralph) and VO (PP production gives hope for ES production) are getting treated differently.

Playing someone 5v5 based on their PP performance is not smart coaching. Especially when the player in question has over a years worth of evidence showing he’s not that good 5v5. (At least as a top line/top 6 player). What makes Oloffson shine on the PP isn’t that transferable to 5v5 since he doesn’t get the same amount of time and space to wait around to unleash his shot.

I don’t expect Krueger to sit Olofsson. But to stubbornly stick with him in a 5v5 usage over a season plus, when he isn’t doing much, isn’t very smart coaching. If nothing else it would probably help VO with his 5v5 offense to play lower in the lineup.

Plus, it just seems like something happened last year that spoiled the Skinner-Ralph relationship and it hasn't gotten better this year.

I think the issue lies with Krueger singular focus on low event hockey. I’ll steal the phrase @Fezzy126 used in another thread. Krueger is always “cheating to defense.” He doesn’t know how to use a high event player like Skinner who is “cheating to offense”.

The best coaches who favor low event systems (Like Trotz) find a common ground with their higher event players. They don;t try to get them to completely change who they are. So we get an Ovy who’s a little better at defense not someone who has completely changed their game to focus on defense first. Which seems to be what Krueger wants Skinner to do. The results of that speak for themselves.

Who are you taking off PP1 to put Skinner in there?

With this team living off the PP, taking someone off an effective PP and putting Skinner in there might be a riskier move than scratching Skinner is.

Might want to re-read my post. I wasn’t advocating Skinner gets put on PP1. I said keeping Skinner off PP1 is the one thing of all the offensive opportunities Krueger is denying him that makes sense.

I also mentioned Skinner didn’t played on PP1 last year. Thats what I was taking issue with. Thats didn’t make much sense.

The tough part to guess at from the outside is that there has to be something going on behind the scenes that we don't know about.

It makes spit balling ideas that much more difficult.

At its baseline this is about a low event coach not figuring out how to use a high event player.

 

[BritSabre]

I can only see one outcome right now. Traded in a package with Eichel for a mediocre return. Rediscover their love for the game and produce well. We extend Hall, continue to suck and we're talking about cutting loose Hall's albatross in 24 months time. And we're all still here losing our marbles.

Think I need some positivity juice. I like the idea of Krueger and wanted him to work out, but we need a new voice.

 

[threeVo]

Literally just put Olofsson on the 3rd line and Skinner in his spot. This team instantly turns itself into having a semblance of a chance at scoring at ES. Skinner doesnt even need PP time. Who cares at this point just play him 14ish minutes at ES

 

[joshjull]

@Jim Bob

The biggest pile of hypocrisy from Krueger relative to Skinner’s treatment is his handling of the 3rd line (Rieder/Eakin/Okposo). I should have started there instead of brining up Hall/VO.

Since the 3rd line was put together they’ve been one of the worst lines in a hockey. Thats not hyperbole. They are listed weekly among the worst lines statistically in the NHL. They have an xGF% of 29% and are caved in nightly and only have one goal. They don’t even play a tough deployment (OZS% 48%). So they can’t use that as a excuse for their terrible play.

The members of the 3rd line are also the 3 worst forwards in GA/60 and 7th/9th and 13th of 13 forwards in xGA/60. In other words they suck defensively in a balanced deployment and they also don;t produce any offense (just one goal). YET none of them come out. Not only that but the line itself has been untouchable. None of that should make sense. But in Krueger’s mind their PKing abilities trump their putrid play for a couple weeks.

Skinner is currently the best forward in GA/60 and 4th in xGA/60. Even his GA/60 away from Lazar/Sheahan would still be tied for 1st. Skinner was also 10th in the NHL creating HD chances (HDCF/60). The 4th line has been our best line getting the toughest deployment (40%). part of that has been dominating HD danger chances. Their HDCF% of 62% is helped by Skinner’s prolific ability to create those chances.




I bring all of this up to point out Skinner wouldn’t have such good defensive metrics while still creating that many HD chances if he hadn’t accepted his role. So when I point out him sitting for essentially bad luck leading the not scoring. I’m annoyed by the hypocrisy. His play is definitely no worse than anyone still in the line up. In many cases its better.

I truly don’t understand what Krueger wants from him. Normally a skill play getting all of thsoe offensive situions taken away from them wilts. Skinner has gone out and down almost as well as you could expect in that situation barring some puck puck for goals.

 

[HaNotsri]

@Jim Bob

The biggest pile of hypocrisy from Krueger relative to Skinner’s treatment is his handling of the 3rd line (Rieder/Eakin/Okposo). I should have started there instead of brining up Hall/VO.

Since the 3rd line was put together they’ve been one of the worst lines in a hockey. Thats not hyperbole. They are listed weekly among the worst lines statistically in the NHL. They have an xGF% of 29% and are caved in nightly and only have one goal. They don’t even play a tough deployment (OZS% 48%). So they can’t use that as a excuse for their terrible play.

The members of the 3rd line are also the 3 worst forwards in GA/60 and 7th/9th and 13th of 13 forwards in xGA/60. In other words they suck defensively in a balanced deployment and they also don;t produce any offense (just one goal). YET none of them come out. Not only that but the line itself has been untouchable. None of that should make sense. But in Krueger’s mind their PKing abilities trump their putrid play for a couple weeks.

Skinner is currently the best forward in GA/60 and 4th in xGA/60. Even his GA/60 away from Lazar/Sheahan would still be tied for 1st. Skinner was also 10th in the NHL creating HD chances (HDCF/60). The 4th line has been our best line getting the toughest deployment (40%). part of that has been dominating HD danger chances. Their HDCF% of 62% is helped by Skinner’s prolific ability to create those chances.




I bring all of this up to point out Skinner wouldn’t have such good defensive metrics while still creating that many HD chances if he hadn’t accepted his role. So when I point out him sitting for essentially bad luck leading the not scoring. I’m annoyed by the hypocrisy. His play is definitely no worse than anyone still in the line up. In many cases its better.

I truly don’t understand what Krueger wants from him. Normally a skill play getting all of thsoe offensive situions taken away from them wilts. Skinner has gone out and down almost as well as you could expect in that situation barring some puck puck for goals.

Skinner has handled everything the best way possible. I think the most likely explanation is that Krueger is a psychopath or really, really dumb.

 

[yahhockey]

Thanks goodness we have the Bills to distract us from this tire fire of a team. If they still had a platoon at QB and the Sabres had these struggles we would be curled up in the corner with a blanket sucking our thumb.

If only someone could learn more about the analytics the Sabres are using when there are other analytics that say they are making a terrible decision. Maybe joshjull can moonlight as a sports reporter and pepper the coach and GM with insightful questions. The pandemic has been a blessing for the team. I can only imagine the reaction from the 8-10,000 fans that would subject themselves to this nonsense.

 

[Kyndig]

Thanks goodness we have the Bills to distract us from this tire fire of a team. If they still had a platoon at QB and the Sabres had these struggles we would be curled up in the corner with a blanket sucking our thumb.

If only someone could learn more about the analytics the Sabres are using when there are other analytics that say they are making a terrible decision. Maybe joshjull can moonlight as a sports reporter and pepper the coach and GM with insightful questions. The pandemic has been a blessing for the team. I can only imagine the reaction from the 8-10,000 fans that would subject themselves to this nonsense.

I haven't watched football in like 7 years but I distinctly remember pretty much everyone here saying they drafted the wrong Josh.

 

[The Man with a Plan]

Many people saying that Skinner plays on forth line that's why he not scores. Is forth lines not allowed to score in the NHL or something?

Paying someone 9 mill. Then giving him 10 mins a game on the 4th line. That is setting someone up to fail and monumentally stupid all at the same time.
Why is he not playing with Eichel?

 

[Jim Bob]

@Jim Bob

The biggest pile of hypocrisy from Krueger relative to Skinner’s treatment is his handling of the 3rd line (Rieder/Eakin/Okposo). I should have started there instead of brining up Hall/VO.

Since the 3rd line was put together they’ve been one of the worst lines in a hockey. Thats not hyperbole. They are listed weekly among the worst lines statistically in the NHL. They have an xGF% of 29% and are caved in nightly and only have one goal. They don’t even play a tough deployment (OZS% 48%). So they can’t use that as a excuse for their terrible play.

The members of the 3rd line are also the 3 worst forwards in GA/60 and 7th/9th and 13th of 13 forwards in xGA/60. In other words they suck defensively in a balanced deployment and they also don;t produce any offense (just one goal). YET none of them come out. Not only that but the line itself has been untouchable. None of that should make sense. But in Krueger’s mind their PKing abilities trump their putrid play for a couple weeks.

Skinner is currently the best forward in GA/60 and 4th in xGA/60. Even his GA/60 away from Lazar/Sheahan would still be tied for 1st. Skinner was also 10th in the NHL creating HD chances (HDCF/60). The 4th line has been our best line getting the toughest deployment (40%). part of that has been dominating HD danger chances. Their HDCF% of 62% is helped by Skinner’s prolific ability to create those chances.

I bring all of this up to point out Skinner wouldn’t have such good defensive metrics while still creating that many HD chances if he hadn’t accepted his role. So when I point out him sitting for essentially bad luck leading the not scoring. I’m annoyed by the hypocrisy. His play is definitely no worse than anyone still in the line up. In many cases its better.

I truly don’t understand what Krueger wants from him. Normally a skill play getting all of those offensive situions taken away from them wilts. Skinner has gone out and down almost as well as you could expect in that situation barring some puck puck for goals.

There seems to be something happening behind the scenes between Ralph and Skinner. That is the only logical explanation that I can think of.

Given everything we've seen, there is no logical reason not to try pushing VO down the lineup at 5 on 5 and keeping him in his spot on PP1. On the latest PDOCast Dom talked about how Sam Gagner was used as a PP specialist as an example of the best way to use VO.

VO is a one trick pony. So, they need to maximize that one trick and use him less 5 on 5.

Putting Skinner with Eichel & Reinhart at 5 on 5 just makes sense if there isn't something else going on.

And leaving PP1 the way it is with VO in his office just makes sense, as well.

 

[Jim Bob]

At its baseline this is about a low event coach not figuring out how to use a high event player.

But, is Skinner a high event player right now?

 

[joshjull]

But, is Skinner a high event player right now?

Yes.

Even with his crappy deployment (for creating offense) he is still 10th in the NHL in individual HDCF/60 among 361 NHL forwards who’ve been played 100+ mins