Sportsnet: Jeff Marek: Holland looking to move 1st or top prospects for LD

[McJadeddog]

Is Broberg going to be good?

I think it is too early to tell to be honest. He has looked good in his first 2 games for sure, but like, that is 2 games, lol. He has all the tools (size, skating, puck handling, etc). But I personally have questions about his offensive hockey IQ, and defensive positioning. The D positioning will come with time likely, as it does most D, but I don't know about the offensive instincts. I can't imagine him not becoming at least a decent NHL defender, just due to his natural abilities alone, but I am much less sure of him becoming a top-3 defender on a good team. Time will tell. Sorry for the wishy-washy answer, but its just too hard to say after 2 NHL games.

 

[JustAHabFan]

You’re always filled with opinions but you’ll have to enlighten everyone as to why you think Chiarot is a bad option.

This. Chiarot is exactly what the Oilers need for the playoff. Hard hitting defenseman who can play a lot of minutes is what you want for the playoff. Now pay a 1st or 2nd for Chiarot is a different issue. As a Habs fan, I would like to get a 1st and I do think we may get one because a few teams will want Chiarot for the playoff. He was playing very well in last year playoff for the Habs.

 

[Qward]

Del Zotto for Turris

 

[pspot]

Jake Muzzin...

 

[snipes]

Jesus you guys have an injury bug eh? If broberg shows that he's ready maybe this is all moot

Broberg certainly looks like an NHLer the way he moves, but he's a young D man and I don't want to see him rushed. I'd much prefer he play all situations as the #1 down in Bakersfield and push for a spot next year. Our development system in Bakersfield has been good quite good in recent years.

Long term, Broberg will be an NHLer for a long time with that size and skating ability. I think Ekholm and Bouwmeester are decent comparables for him that have been made before.

Watching him skating is a thing of beauty though, he had a rush in the 3rd period in last nights game where he was absolutely flying it seemed like it only took two or three strides to go blue line to blue line. If he rounds out his game, he'll be a legit top 4 D man in the coming years.

 

[danyhabsfan]

1st for Chiarot + 3rd

 

[Roof Daddy]

1st for Chiarot + 3rd

I would consider this. Paying a 1st outright - no thanks - but getting a later pick back makes the deal survivable. Could conceivably be a case of dropping from 24-32 down to 70-75 range.

 

[Paul4587]

Maybe he shouldn’t have given up assets trading for a 1,000 year old Keith in the off-season and gone after someone good and this wouldn’t be an issue now.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

You’re always filled with opinions but you’ll have to enlighten everyone as to why you think Chiarot is a bad option.

He's not just a bad option, he's a god-awful option if the asking price is a first rounder or a top prospect, never mind both. He doesn't move the puck well enough, he has zero offensive upside, he spent most of the playoffs hemmed in his own zone doing his best Boxing Homer impression, and he's got awful relative stats to his teammates, and he's a rental. He's an oversized, younger Kris Russell. He's be fine if the asking price was a third rounder. A first, a top prospect, or both? Give me a f***ing break.

 

[backhandsauce]

Keith has been good.

 

[gdsmack267]

Dumoulin for a 1st

 

[GreeningOil]

Trading a 1st + for a left shot defence seems odd.. if anything they need a solid 3rd pair defenseman to upgrade on Koekkoek/Russell. Nurse and Keith have been very good as the top 2 lefties.

Edmonton has some young pieces in the lineup right now that have shown promise in McLeod, Skinner and Broberg. Hopefully they give them more of a look before pulling the trigger on a big deal.

They’re both injured Dawg

 

[Chayos]

Chychrun is too expensive given what overpayment AZ understandably wants.\

Rangers could theoretically make Lindgren available, but for obv reasons, would require overpay, not fair value. Howev, depending on currency exchanged, could be lot less overpay.

It may be possible that some complementary swapping could resolve each other's headaches/needs.

Have not had time to think this out fully, but...
first impression:
a core of
Broberg + Holloway + Lavoie + EDM 1st 2022 and 2026
for
Lindgren + Kravtsov + Jones + Rangers + Blues 2022 2nds

value analysis:
Broberg 8OA + 9OA Krav are a wash Krav is delayed until KHL season ends but has potential to be pivot, not just W
Lindgren available immediately = better than mid 1st --- Holloway available later = mid first
Jones is immediately available and right now has higher ceiling than Lavoie
Oil get 2 2nds this yr for 1 1st this yr and another down the road to offset what they get now from NY which ends Krav distraction and replaces Lindy 3m per w/Broberg elc

so translation:
Oil get immediate D help + an extra high D prospect plays either side
add Krav potential which on paper upgrades Holloway

Rangers project Holloway as RW which works nice w/kreider
losing 2 LD esp Lindy is a major wince, but
Broberg - KAM - and then Robertson replacing Nemeth/Tinordi around the corner

NY adds size and speed in Broberg, but Oil add desired toughness in Lindgren

again, first draft spitballin...

You know Bern I am going to give you some advice on time management. The next time you are considering spending 15 mins making up a post like this about Broberg.... Don't and it will save you 20 mins and the rest of us the aggravation of saying no. We are actually watching him play on our team right now and he is going to be amazing. I know why you want him so bad, but your Mickey mouse math Offers are not going to get it done.

Facts:

-Broberg has always been worth more than Kravsov from day one and it has never been a wash and it likely never will. so move on.
The rest of you replacements players are not getting our other best prospect and 2 firsts. Geez man what are you thinking.

 

[SoupNazi]

Danny DeKeyser is available for your 1st. Holland loves him some Danny D!

 

[Z-Diddy]

As much as I personally dislike the Oilers, watching the Dallas game last night Broberg was flying, lead the team in shots with 5, wasn't a push over. At the draft I thought it was gonna be tough to put the whole tool kit together, whether he and Kelfbom in the future could be a neat pairing, regardless that game I was impressed

 

[admiralcadillac]

He's not just a bad option, he's a god-awful option if the asking price is a first rounder or a top prospect, never mind both. He doesn't move the puck well enough, he has zero offensive upside, he spent most of the playoffs hemmed in his own zone doing his best Boxing Homer impression, and he's got awful relative stats to his teammates, and he's a rental. He's an oversized, younger Kris Russell. He's be fine if the asking price was a third rounder. A first, a top prospect, or both? Give me a f***ing break.

Thanks for providing us with evidence that you haven’t seen him play.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Thanks for providing us with evidence that you haven’t seen him play.

Yes, you're right, as a fan of a North division team, I never once saw Chiarot play.

He is not worth a first and anyone that would pay it is a f***ing idiot.

 

[Chayos]

You’re missing the 1st.

Wow that is crazy value and I wish you well not getting it and keeping your building block. The oilers will just wait for Broberg to come into his own and get a stop gap. I agree with your stance from your side though, price him so no one will want him and then you keep your #1 affordable young-dman.

If we are paying any kind of value like the above we are getting two main pieces not one.

,

 

[Hunter368]

Yes, you're right, as a fan of a North division team, I never once saw Chiarot play.

He is not worth a first and anyone that would pay it is a f***ing idiot.

As a fan who has watched Chariot play a lot (years & years every game), I agree. He is a complimentary player but cannot drive a pairing himself, play him with Weber/Big Buff and he's ok not great but ok. If you play him with someone of lower ability then himself or even on par with him you will be disappointed in him as a top 4 guy. IMO he's a solid/good #5D on most teams based on ability, he can play in a top 4 role if paired up with a good/very good D partner. He adds leadership, fights, physical, etc.

Will he get a 1st round pick? Depends IMO, he's not worth it of course based on ability...........but that doesn't mean he won't get one from some desperate/dumb GM. If Habs retain for a certain teams cap issues will help his value. No retention, in a bubble his value IMO he's a 2rd pick plus 3rd pick type of guy. If my team gave up a 1st rd pick for him I would be livid with my GM.

Those who want to compare Savard trade to Chariot, CBJ retained 50% on Savard, CBJ got a late 1st & 3rd picks. Savard was coming off a hot playoffs the year before and generally was thought of on another tier then Chariot is at the time. So again could Chariot land a late 1st rd pick with 50% retained? Maybe in the perfect case/situation but we all know it's an overpayment.......we all laughed at the Bolts for paying that for Savard b/c we all knew he wasn't worth it. Time will tell if Chariot gets traded and what he returns, but if someone pays a 1st rd pick straight up for him......expect them to be disappointed in the end barring him being played with a very good D partner who covers up for Chariot's lack of ability. To those Habs fans who quote me saying but but but, read my post closely, I said it's possible he returns a 1st in certain situations but its likely an overpayment and/or would require retainment on his cap to get the 1st.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I would consider this. Paying a 1st outright - no thanks - but getting a later pick back makes the deal survivable. Could conceivably be a case of dropping from 24-32 down to 70-75 range.

Habs could also retain 50% which creates more wiggle room to add other guys at the deadline. Any 1/2 year cap dump? We can take on that as well. Basically, Habs help in salary cap space to get the best value we can get type thing.

 

[admiralcadillac]

Yes, you're right, as a fan of a North division team, I never once saw Chiarot play.

He is not worth a first and anyone that would pay it is a f***ing idiot.

You’re always unpleasant and agressive which is unsurprising given no one with any reason would come to the conclusion Chiarot is only worth giving a third round pick for. Your words not mine.

 

[Habs Halifax]

As a fan who has watched Chariot play a lot (years & years every game), I agree. He is a complimentary player but cannot drive a pairing himself, play him with Weber/Big Buff and he's ok not great but ok. If you play him with someone of lower ability then himself or even on par with him you will be disappointed in him as a top 4 guy. IMO he's a solid/good #5D on most teams based on ability, he can play in a top 4 role if paired up with a good/very good D partner. He adds leadership, fights, physical, etc.

Will he get a 1st round pick? Depends IMO, he's not worth it of course based on ability...........but that doesn't mean he won't get one from some desperate/dumb GM. If Habs retain for a certain teams cap issues will help his value. No retention, in a bubble his value IMO he's a 2rd pick plus 3rd pick type of guy. If my team gave up a 1st rd pick for him I would be livid with my GM.

Those who want to compare Savard trade to Chariot, CBJ retained 50% on Savard, CBJ got a late 1st & 3rd picks. Savard was coming off a hot playoffs the year before and generally was thought of on another tier then Chariot is at the time. So again could Chariot land a late 1st rd pick with 50% retained? Maybe in the perfect case/situation but we all know it's an overpayment.......we all laughed at the Bolts for paying that for Savard b/c we all knew he wasn't worth it. Time will tell if Chariot gets traded and what he returns, but if someone pays a 1st rd pick straight up for him......expect them to be disappointed in the end barring him being played with a very good D partner who covers up for Chariot's lack of ability. To those Habs fans who quote me saying but but but, read my post closely, I said it's possible he returns a 1st in certain situations but its likely an overpayment and/or would require retainment on his cap to get the 1st.

If you truly watched Chiarot for years and years, you would realize that he has improved more and more with his time with the Habs. He's far from that guy we got when we signed him as a UFA after his Jets days. And the last two playoff runs was something Chiarot gained valuable experience. He clearly has multiple levels and is a type you do not want face in the trenches (along the walls and in front of the net) in the playoffs! He's a beast and he will be a target by several GM's.

I don't know what we get in a trade to be honest. We can compare to past deals all day long and that's a fools game. What we really don't know is how many GM's really do want him and are willing to pay more than the other guy. That's guess work and it happens every single deadline

If the Habs move him, we can easily retain 50% for the rest of the season. That's not a problem at all and I bet Molson/Bergevin will take that approach as well.

 

[EquivalentStay]

Thanks for providing us with evidence that you haven’t seen him play.

I watched every single game he played last year. Unless you need someone to chop some wood, he ain't even close to worth what Habs fans want. Edmonton can, and should, do better.

 

[Habs Halifax]

You’re always unpleasant and agressive which is unsurprising given no one with any reason would come to the conclusion Chiarot is only worth giving a third round pick for. Your words not mine.

I agree. He's way to aggressive and he has a Habs hate issue. This is why you see the unpleasant narrative applied to all Habs fans. Evidence is plastered all over the place

 

[Habs Halifax]

I watched every single game he played last year. Unless you need someone to chop some wood, he ain't even close to worth what Habs fans want. Edmonton can, and should, do better.

Please don't group all Habs fans into one opinion. This is the biggest BS going on on HF boards these days.

Correct me if I am wrong here.... You see like the type that values points? Guys like Chiarot are a dime a dozen right?

1st is a high ask. I think we all agree with that (even Habs fans believe it or not). My guess is two 2nd's with the possibility of a late 1st if two or three GM's feel he fits a team need and want to outbid the others. I think he would fit well with a puck mover but a soft type.