Player Discussion Jeff Gorton

[HatTrick Swayze]

Why would Sather need a scapegoat?

*escape goat

 

[FireGerardGallant]

let's take a look at Gorton's report card here

what do we have in return for the Carl Hagelin trade..............NOTHING (We couldn't resign Hagelin and we got a second, just sucks we didn't draft right. Also Hagelin and his contract is brutal now)
what do we have in return for the Eric Staal trade...................NOTHING even worse Eric Staal is now tearing it up for the Minn Wild (Agree)
what do we have in return for the Stepan trade.........DeAngelo ?? terrible (We got Lias Andersson, one of our top prospects who looks to be really good, we also rid ourselves of Stepans contract which will be bad a win for JG)
what do we have in return for the Cam Talbot trade.............NOTHING (Agree, but we did get a nice amount of picks but we had a first on the table should have taken that)
what do we have in return for the Anti Raanta loss................NOTHING (Apart of Stepan trade a wash)

Shattenkirk and Vesey came here on their own accord, no help from Gorton
I will give him full credit for the Zib / Brass trade that was a good one

other than that he is a horrible incompetent GM

Gorton is not a bad Gm, he has 2 wins as a gm (Stepan, Brassard) and 2 losses (Smith, Staal) and 2 washes (Hags, Talbot). His real test comes at this deadline/draft that will define his tenure here

 

[silverfish]

100% yes. I don't even know how this is a question now that we have the gift of hindsight. The Rangers got out from under a heavy contract just in the nick of time. Chayka bought a year too late on both Stepan and Hjalmarsson, at least he can still move the latter.

Not really going to get into a Stepan debate. But there's no way you can 100% justify that trade. Just like there's no way you can 100% vilify it.

It is, and always will be, up for debate.

 

[LORDE]

Gorton is not a bad Gm, he has 2 wins as a gm (Stepan, Brassard) and 2 losses (Smith, Staal) and 2 washes (Hags, Talbot). His real test comes at this deadline/draft that will define his tenure here

Completely agree w this.

He has all the opportunity in the world right NOW to prove what type o GM he is.

After this draft I think we will all know.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

During his time as interim gm for the Bruins he:
Drafted Kessel, Marchand, and Lucic
Traded Andrew Raycroft for Tukka Rask (lol)
and signed Chara and Marc Savard
All of those help the Bruins be where they are today on a team that looked awful like ours
So far he hasn't done anything egregious (besides not fire av) and his time as interim gm shows he knows how to help lead a team in a rebuild
Again this tdl and draft will be his legacy, and I personally believe

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Not really going to get into a Stepan debate. But there's no way you can 100% justify that trade. Just like there's no way you can 100% vilify it.

It is, and always will be, up for debate.

How is anyone ever going to be able to justify the trade until we see how Andersson and DeAngelo shake out? Also, I could be wrong, but didn't Stepan have a NMC kicking into his contract? That right there is a clear indication of why they acted swiftly.

What excites me about the next couple of weeks is, for the first time ever, the Rangers are all-in on a strategy to rebuild the team. No more band-aids.

 

[silverfish]

How is anyone ever going to be able to justify the trade until we see how Andersson and DeAngelo shake out? Also, I could be wrong, but didn't Stepan have a NMC kicking into his contract? That right there is a clear indication of why they acted swiftly.

I'm a believer in the fact that you analyze a trade when it happens, not five years later. Analyzing a trade with the condition of hindsight is a great way to always be right in your analysis.

So, I evaluate the Stepan trade as such:

Stepan value + Raanta value versus 7th overall pick value, deangelo value, and cap space value.

I don't analyze it as: Stepan value + Raanta value versus LA value, DeAngelo value, and Shattenkirk value.

If you evaluate trades such as the latter, well, then you're never done evaluating trades. Unless Andersson, DeAngelo, and Shattenkirk are never traded from this team, which the odds of that are probably slim, then you have to evaluate: well, now we traded Stepan for these guys.

I don't like that. Some people do. Such is life.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

*escape goat

 

[aufheben]

re: Stepan

Literally from today on the Coyotes board:

7th overall seemed weak. Now Mittelstadt, Vilardi, Necas, and Andersson are all looking amazing and I'd happily trade Stepan and more for any of them.

Was never happy giving up the 7th overall (and even more so that Chayka did not get the Rangers pick in return). If Stepan and Raanta had led the team to new heights (instead of falling to new lows) it would not seem so bad.

That is exactly why I would never ever trade a top ten pick for a rebuilding team.

I've been dropping in and out of the Coyotes board all season. This is nothing new. I think the vast majority of their fans would take that trade back, or at the very least, only look to acquire Raanta.

Goalies have less value than skaters, nonetheless, Cory Schneider, one of the best at his position, brought back 9th overall and nothing else.

 

[silverfish]

Getting too OT.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I'm a believer in the fact that you analyze a trade when it happens, not five years later. Analyzing a trade with the condition of hindsight is a great way to always be right in your analysis.

So, I evaluate the Stepan trade as such:

Stepan value + Raanta value versus 7th overall pick value, deangelo value, and cap space value.

I don't analyze it as: Stepan value + Raanta value versus LA value, DeAngelo value, and Shattenkirk value.

If you evaluate trades such as the latter, well, then you're never done evaluating trades. Unless Andersson, DeAngelo, and Shattenkirk are never traded from this team, which the odds of that are probably slim, then you have to evaluate: well, now we traded Stepan for these guys.

I don't like that. Some people do. Such is life.

Even at the time they are made, there is more to trades than simply the value of the pieces involved. The Rangers had some level of foresight that it was time to start building towards the future - that it would probably behoove the organization to not be stuck under Stepan's cap hit for another several years. Not to mention it sure seems like he plateaued over the last couple of seasons.

You can evaluate trades however you want. I just think you're leaving out a lot of context when only examining the principles involved at the time the trade is made.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Even at the time they are made, there is more to trades than simply the value of the pieces involved. The Rangers had some level of foresight that it was time to start building towards the future - that it would probably behoove the organization to not be stuck under Stepan's cap hit for another several years. Not to mention it sure seems like he plateaued over the last couple of seasons.

You can evaluate trades however you want. I just think you're leaving out a lot of context when only examining the principles involved at the time the trade is made.

 

[silverfish]

Even at the time they are made, they is more to trades than simply the value of the pieces involved. The Rangers had some level of foresight that it was time to start building towards the future - that it would probably behoove the organization to not be stuck under Stepan's cap hit for another several years. Not to mention it sure seems like he plateaued over the last couple of seasons.

You can evaluate trades however you want. I just think you're leaving out a lot of context when only examining the principles involved at the time the trade is made.

I appreciate your comment, but I think we're getting too into the weeds on Stepan and less about JG, so I'm going to leave it.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Gorton is not a bad Gm, he has 2 wins as a gm (Stepan, Brassard) and 2 losses (Smith, Staal) and 2 washes (Hags, Talbot). His real test comes at this deadline/draft that will define his tenure here

Im not entirely sure how you can justify Smith and Staal as loses. Smith, in hindsight, was a bad signing but there isn't anyone who could've predicted he'd forget to play hockey over the summer. Staal was unmovable and couldn't be bought out after Girardi. He actually hasn't played that bad this season.

I'd consider the Hagelin deal a loss. That was a garbage return for a critical component of the team. He made up for it with the Grabner signing, however.

 

[Graves94]

Im not entirely sure how you can justify Smith and Staal as loses. Smith, in hindsight, was a bad signing but there isn't anyone who could've predicted he'd forget to play hockey over the summer. Staal was unmovable and couldn't be bought out after Girardi. He actually hasn't played that bad this season.

I'd consider the Hagelin deal a loss. That was a garbage return for a critical component of the team. He made up for it with the Grabner signing, however.

I believe he means the Eric Staal trade.
Agree 100% on the Hagelin deal!

 

[dumpin]

Why would Sather need a scapegoat?

Do you think Sather's ego will allow him to take some responsibility for the mess that is today's Rangers. NO he will fire Corton and say we need to go in a different direction. Messier in the distance.

 

[GordonGecko]

Not really going to get into a Stepan debate. But there's no way you can 100% justify that trade. Just like there's no way you can 100% vilify it.

It is, and always will be, up for debate.

I think it was a great trade. People conveniently ignore the implications of the salary cap. And even just with on-ice performance, Stepan has taken a major step back in Arizona

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

I believe he means the Eric Staal trade.
Agree 100% on the Hagelin deal!

Oy good call. My bad. I think I literally tried to erase the Eric Staal deal from my brain.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

Im not entirely sure how you can justify Smith and Staal as loses. Smith, in hindsight, was a bad signing but there isn't anyone who could've predicted he'd forget to play hockey over the summer. Staal was unmovable and couldn't be bought out after Girardi. He actually hasn't played that bad this season.

I'd consider the Hagelin deal a loss. That was a garbage return for a critical component of the team. He made up for it with the Grabner signing, however.

Eric Staal. Also for Smith we gave up way too much (a top 35 pick in this draft)
And while the return for Hagelin didn't pan out it was a good return we got a second we coulda used on someone like Sprong or Vince Dunn, we just drafted the wrong person

 

[tailgunner]

Gorton is not a bad Gm, he has 2 wins as a gm (Stepan, Brassard) and 2 losses (Smith, Staal) and 2 washes (Hags, Talbot). His real test comes at this deadline/draft that will define his tenure here

how is the hags and Talbot trades a wash ??? we lost hags and got absolutely ZERO in return....Talbot is a bonafide NHL starting goalie and we got chicken scraps for him

 

[GordonGecko]

Talbot is a bonafide NHL starting goalie

Jury is still out on that one

 

[nyr2k2]

how is the hags and Talbot trades a wash ??? we lost hags and got absolutely ZERO in return....Talbot is a bonafide NHL starting goalie and we got chicken scraps for him

Hags was a cap dump, the reason we got nothing in return is because we whiffed on Gropp. If we took Sprong or whoever I think people would be happy with it.

Talbot may still turn out okay as we got Huska, and used one of the picks to turn into Kovacs who maybe could have been something. The Talbot trade was meh, but goalies don't usually have a ton of value. Also Talbot has been shit this year, and with goalies you never know if it's just a bad year or the beginning of the end.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

how is the hags and Talbot trades a wash ??? we lost hags and got absolutely ZERO in return....Talbot is a bonafide NHL starting goalie and we got chicken scraps for him

Talbot has looked bad this year and the overall value wasn't bad its just stinks there was a first on the table but Sather got greedy and held out for more which makes it a wash
And the Value for the Hags trade was there we just whiffed on the pick
(Also both the hags trade and the Talbot trade were technically done under the tenure of Sather as Gorton offically took over on July 1st, 2015 after the draft)

 

[haveandare]

A second for a 30 point player you don't want to re-sign isn't all that bad, but like any pick it's a lot easier to establish it's value after it's already been made and the player has panned out or not panned out.

 

[FireGerardGallant]

A second for a 30 point player you don't want to re-sign isn't all that bad, but like any pick it's a lot easier to establish it's value after it's already been made and the player has panned out or not panned out.

Which is dumb because its not Gorton's/Sather's fault that the scouts told them take Gropp over Sprong or Dunn