Player Discussion Jeff Gorton
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Beer League Sniper
Homeless Man's Rick Nash
I would normally agree with that but since JG has actually allowed AV to make the call on roster transactions(McLeod) just last week, I think JG sees AV as more apart of the solution as opposed as the problem.
Just my opinion..
Beer League Sniper
Homeless Man's Rick Nash
I can see that, but maybe Gorton is just giving AV more rope to hang himself with. I know Gorton is technically AV's boss, but the decision to fire him isn't going to be made without input from Sather and possibly Dolan. McLeod is just another bullet point Gorton can add to his powerpoint presentation "Reasons to Fire Alain Vigneault."
Do we know that AV asked for McLeod? I often wonder how much influence on roster the coach has. You may be right, but I never find clear evidence of how that might work with any NHL team, Rangers or otherwise. I tend to think AV wanted a semblance of a that kind of 'enforcer' player, not that those kind players exist the way they used to.
- Feb 17, 2013
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Who cares if Gorton hasn't fired AV yet? Why lose faith in Gorton for such a thing? Are you really that myopic? The Rangers were never going anywhere this year anyway. They traded Stepan last summer knowing fully well that they didn't have a replacement for him. Brooks is full of #### when he says management expected Lias to play in the NHL this year. That's simply not true; they thought he was at least a year or two away before hitting the big stage. Who cares that Gorton left such a gaping hole in the middle of the ice? Stepan's contract was brutal and he's been getting hurt every year. The Rangers weren't going anywhere with him still here this year too!! They are in year 1 of a retool.
I want to win cups. We've won one cup in 77 years? That's pathetic. A major reason for our pitiful track record is that we always inhabit the dreaded middle, where we are a playoff team that shows flashes of brilliance but doesn't have the talent to compete with a Pittsburgh or Chicago. We tend to sacrifice futures even when our odds at winning the cup are low. If you are a legit contender, then go for it by all means. If you suck, then be the best at sucking.
I don't care if we suck this year if it means we can set ourselves up for future success with good prospects and picks. Even Warren Buffett, the greatest investor of all time, has prolonged periods of underperformance. Sucking is natural and all franchises go through it, especially those in a league with a hard salary cap.
And yes, I know for every Pittsburgh or Chicago there is a Phoenix or (pre-Matthews) Toronto. Phoenix is a terrible example, however. It's not like they actually pick very high every year. They've only picked in the top 5 once in the past eight years, and they completely blew it by taking Strome when other great players were there for the taking. Aside from Keller, all of their picks were in the "dreaded middle" territory.
Gorton can't be evaluated fairly until 2 years after these major moves take place. His legacy as NYR GM will be determined by Lias, Chytil, and whoever else he brings in here over the coming 6 months.
I want to win cups. We've won one cup in 77 years? That's pathetic. A major reason for our pitiful track record is that we always inhabit the dreaded middle, where we are a playoff team that shows flashes of brilliance but doesn't have the talent to compete with a Pittsburgh or Chicago. We tend to sacrifice futures even when our odds at winning the cup are low. If you are a legit contender, then go for it by all means. If you suck, then be the best at sucking.
I don't care if we suck this year if it means we can set ourselves up for future success with good prospects and picks. Even Warren Buffett, the greatest investor of all time, has prolonged periods of underperformance. Sucking is natural and all franchises go through it, especially those in a league with a hard salary cap.
And yes, I know for every Pittsburgh or Chicago there is a Phoenix or (pre-Matthews) Toronto. Phoenix is a terrible example, however. It's not like they actually pick very high every year. They've only picked in the top 5 once in the past eight years, and they completely blew it by taking Strome when other great players were there for the taking. Aside from Keller, all of their picks were in the "dreaded middle" territory.
Gorton can't be evaluated fairly until 2 years after these major moves take place. His legacy as NYR GM will be determined by Lias, Chytil, and whoever else he brings in here over the coming 6 months.
If we weed through the BS, I think JG is either using AV as a scapegoat or he's just straight up incompetent IMO
https://nypost.com/2018/01/26/rangers-sign-tough-fourth-liner-off-waivers/
Alain Vigneault laughed as he remembered exactly what Cody McLeod said to him from the ice on New Year’s Eve in Denver just over a year ago.
“He stood in front of my bench and said, ‘Hey coach, are you looking for a tough fourth-liner?’ ” Vigneault relayed Thursday morning, the day his Rangers claimed McLeod off waivers from the Predators. “So it took me a year to sort it out.”
ponytrekker
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- Mar 28, 2013
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Miamipuck
Al Swearengen
Yeah, if only that was the major reason, it isn't. For over 30 years, the Rangers were the worst team in hockey or close to the bottom dwellers as you can get. How come they didn't win shit? If you're such a student of history and sucking is the way to go, How come the Rangers didn't win jack?
There’s really no point in firing AV right now.
There aren’t any must have coaches avail (surprisingly no one has been fired this year)
And finishing 9th or 10th after a solid run with a new coach hurts us more than anything.
Sell off sooner than later don’t wait the rest of the month and let the younger guys get big mins. Take the losses and find a way into the bottom 6 or 7 of this draft. We’ll have a shot at Hughes or Bouchard. Maybe Boqvist or Tkachuk if either slip.
Have to deal Nash Holden Zuccarello Desharnais Grabner in the next two weeks at least those guys cannot keep any of them past the deadline.
I’d check on the return for Miller same for vesey and Fast. And I’d give away smith at this point.
Mcdonagh I gotta be blown away.
There aren’t any must have coaches avail (surprisingly no one has been fired this year)
And finishing 9th or 10th after a solid run with a new coach hurts us more than anything.
Sell off sooner than later don’t wait the rest of the month and let the younger guys get big mins. Take the losses and find a way into the bottom 6 or 7 of this draft. We’ll have a shot at Hughes or Bouchard. Maybe Boqvist or Tkachuk if either slip.
Have to deal Nash Holden Zuccarello Desharnais Grabner in the next two weeks at least those guys cannot keep any of them past the deadline.
I’d check on the return for Miller same for vesey and Fast. And I’d give away smith at this point.
Mcdonagh I gotta be blown away.
AV is like Mcadoo right now,you have To fire him as soon as possible. We will suck anyway, but, maybe, at least we will see someone from Hartford playing instead of Kampfer.
silverfish
got perma'd
I don't know if I trust him to manage this breakdown. I definitely don't trust him to maximize returns for 27 or 36, that's for sure. Who has the ability to fire Gorton, Sather? Dolan?
If I'm them, I let Gorton handle the obvious moves that need to be made at this deadline, selling off the UFAs. I don't let him touch 27 or 36 until I can evaluate what he does here. But, I'm sure Sather/Dolan/whoever it is doesn't really give a f***.
I think the worst thing we can do is let what very well may be an average GM trade the best piece this team has.
The quality of play on the ice is AV's fault.
The personnel is Gorton's fault. He's been the GM since 7/1/15. He's been in the organization since 2007. This is his team. 2.5 seasons, officially.
The same people lol'ing @ Chayka in Arizona are going to be the same people telling you the personnel on this team is Sather's fault, not Gorton's.
Stay. Woke.
If I'm them, I let Gorton handle the obvious moves that need to be made at this deadline, selling off the UFAs. I don't let him touch 27 or 36 until I can evaluate what he does here. But, I'm sure Sather/Dolan/whoever it is doesn't really give a f***.
I think the worst thing we can do is let what very well may be an average GM trade the best piece this team has.
The quality of play on the ice is AV's fault.
The personnel is Gorton's fault. He's been the GM since 7/1/15. He's been in the organization since 2007. This is his team. 2.5 seasons, officially.
The same people lol'ing @ Chayka in Arizona are going to be the same people telling you the personnel on this team is Sather's fault, not Gorton's.
Stay. Woke.
- Feb 17, 2013
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Haha OK tough guy. The Rangers have picked only once in the top 5 in the past 40 years. If they were actually "the worst team in hockey" as you claim, maybe they'd have picked higher more often. Take a look:
New York Rangers Draft History at hockeydb.com
haveandare
Registered User
There are plenty of worse things than letting a good not great GM move a big piece - for example letting a terrible GM move that piece or giving that piece a long extension that ends up being an albatross for years down the line.
silverfish
got perma'd
Okay?
I mean, but the reality is, we basically have a pretty good idea of what caliber of GM Gorton is. We can do better.
I don't really see why not allowing him to move 27 and 36 before we get more of an idea of what kind of GM he is, is such a bad idea. The concept being that moving 27 and 36 is going to set the organizational course in motion for where this team is going and how. Is Gorton the guy you want doing that?
I'm not sold yet. I don't see how anyone could be.
haveandare
Registered User
I think he’s a fine GM and I think the odds of the team replacing him now are about 0.
It’s a bad idea because their value is at its peak today given they can be used for two runs for the acquiring team. If a great deal is there I don’t hope they let it pass so they can wait until the assets are worth less, then fire him, then replace him, then wait to see how the new guy is, then move them when they have a few months left on their deals.
Thats a bad idea.
silverfish
got perma'd
Is their value at peak now, where only half the league is going to be willing to bid on them, and anyone making a move for these guys is a playoff contender with a late 1st round pick, or, is their value more effective at the draft, where you have 30 teams who can use their services?
I think it's an interesting question. 1.5 seasons and two playoff runs for ~16 teams, or 1 season and one playoff run for 30 teams.
By all means, if a great deal is there, take it. But I think maybe what JG's concept of a 'great deal' is and what my concept of a 'great deal' is probably differ. I think if Gorton moves 27 and 36 at the deadline, we are going to be underwhelmed. And maybe it's the best offer he got, but you have to also ask yourself if the best offer isn't great, why make the trade?
But we can agree to disagree here.
And like I've been saying, I'm happy to re-evaluate JG after 61, 55, 40, and others are moved and seeing what kind of return he gets for himself here.
And it's also really not a good look that AV is still the coach. I know, I know, firing AV might make the Rangers win one or two more games. The horror.
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Off Sides
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- Sep 8, 2008
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It's kind of a scary situation in my mind
Gorton is and has been acting autonomously, and he made the mistakes he did all on his own.
Or
He is acting in conjunction with some sort of group think that made those mistakes.
Either way I find that to be concerning as either he or them, the same who made some truly less than ideal player evaluations, trades and signings, and took a non committed direction, are going to be the same who will guide this team through one of it's biggest rebuild/retools/whatever they likely are to ever even attempt within the foreseeable future.
I want to have faith, but some of the moves he/they made have been poorly executed. Some have been better, yet them possibly making some big mistakes, largely coach, player and market evaluations, at this junction is scary to me.
Gorton is and has been acting autonomously, and he made the mistakes he did all on his own.
Or
He is acting in conjunction with some sort of group think that made those mistakes.
Either way I find that to be concerning as either he or them, the same who made some truly less than ideal player evaluations, trades and signings, and took a non committed direction, are going to be the same who will guide this team through one of it's biggest rebuild/retools/whatever they likely are to ever even attempt within the foreseeable future.
I want to have faith, but some of the moves he/they made have been poorly executed. Some have been better, yet them possibly making some big mistakes, largely coach, player and market evaluations, at this junction is scary to me.
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
I think what Gorton has shown so far as GM is below average, so its hard to have confidence in his ability to turn around this team. Its true that he's still in his first few years on the job, but he's made decisions for years now, probably even before he got the GM job and I don't think he's done that well with his decisions. Its possible that he could well with the rebuild, but I think we'd likely have a better chance with a new GM of rebuilding the team well.
silverfish
got perma'd
Every GM is going to win some, lose some, and tie some, right? That's just how it goes. No GM is making the perfect moves every time.
The problem with that, though, is if you're trading pieces like 27 and 36, you need those to be wins. Definitive wins.
I think it's reasonable to be worried that Gorton won't definitively WIN those trades.
The problem with that, though, is if you're trading pieces like 27 and 36, you need those to be wins. Definitive wins.
I think it's reasonable to be worried that Gorton won't definitively WIN those trades.
Miamipuck
Al Swearengen
Perfectly reasonable. His ultimate judgement will come in what he can do in trades and what he can do in this draft. I am a believer in him, but it is legit to be worried. He can bring this franchise back in a hurry or set it back for a long time. So much rides on the haul he can obtain in trades and what eye he has in the draft.
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