Player Discussion Jeff Gorton

[Inferno]

I disagree with the idea that the Rangers would have to be bad for multiple years to have a legitimate shot at the Cup. Even if you get rid of guys like Grabner, Nash, even McDonagh and Staal, I still think there's a decent base of players there that with a splashy FA signing, some shrewd lesser FA signings, and good drafting in the first (Andersson and Chytil were a good start), you could get back to a team that could make a deep run within a season or two. Goaltending is the tougher part of the equation, and a solution there is possibly a year or two away.

EDIT: Also, the coach. They need a new one. I'm under no illusion that a different coach would have us leading the conference, but I absolutely believe we'd be 6-8 points better off with a different coach and different philosophy. But that's a different discussion for the other thread.

I think Gorton is a smart guy and I have faith in him.

So much this...get 4 or 5 first round draft picks...use cap space for someone like Tavares or ek65...and develop.

You've still got some combo of kreider buch zib skjei shatty Miller Hayes and Henrik. More than enough to stay in games and help develop the kids.

Its time to turn the roster over..

But...none of this matters of av is the coach...of he's still here...we will still suck unless Henrik is God.

 

[Off Sides]

Without playoff revenue, to make a poor analogy, it's like if you received an X-mas bonus every year for several straight, then all of a sudden you did not, look how that effected Clark Griswold.

It's not so much the Rangers would be hurting, more so they are used to some level of playoff revenue. Cousin Eddie is likely not going to go on a kid napping spree but it would matter in the financial world that is MSG sports which has a market cap of ~5Billion. If one person, say Dolan owned a lot of that, and the stock value goes down partially due to them not being able to report a similar level of revenue, which would at least partially cause some sell off and/or turn off potential buyers, that can be quite a bit of loss for anyone who is heavily invested in that.

Possibly it even stops JP Morgan /Chase to not report stuff like this

"We expect the value of those assets, in particular the New York Knicks and New York Rangers, to rise, driven by higher team revenues and a favorable supply/demand dynamic for professional sports franchises," the firm's analyst writes.

- November 2017

MSG stock may be a bargain because of recent NBA deals, Knicks' winning record with Porzingis

 

[nyr2k2]

So the annual financials for MSG Co. show revenue over the past five years of $722M, $914M, $1.07B, $1.12B, and $1.32B. Missing out on two home playoff games this year isn't even a drop in the bucket. Even if they missed out next year it's not a drop in the bucket as tickets still sell at the Garden even if the team is mediocre (people might not show up, but the tickets sell).

 

[Off Sides]

Looking at the whole gross revenue for everything included under MSG sports is not specific enough in my opinion.

The Rangers operating income was 94M in 2017, it has been estimated they profit ~ 3M per playoff game.(from an older estimate link below)

Chances they can get more than just two home games by just making the playoffs ?

To be fair, that does not include a whole bunch of stuff or show how they account for everything, stuff like revenue sharing, which would lower their profit from the home playoff games, etc

Point being I think 6M or whatever they profit from home playoff games even after all the accounting is a decent chunk of change per season.

Scoring the Rangers' playoff finances

 

[GAGLine]

Looking at the whole gross revenue for everything included under MSG sports is not specific enough in my opinion.

The Rangers operating income was 94M in 2017, it has been estimated they profit ~ 3M per playoff game.(from an older estimate link below)

Chances they can get more than just two home games by just making the playoffs ?

To be fair, that does not include a whole bunch of stuff or show how they account for everything, stuff like revenue sharing, which would lower their profit from the home playoff games, etc

Point being I think 6M or whatever they profit from home playoff games even after all the accounting is a decent chunk of change per season.

Scoring the Rangers' playoff finances

IMO, whether that revenue is significant or not really isn't the point. That revenue isn't guaranteed every year. We could go totally into buy mode starting today and still miss the playoffs. The team as a whole is trending in the wrong direction. We have a product with a depreciating market. The smart thing to do is to sell off the assets and invest in a newer, better product.

 

[Off Sides]

IMO, whether that revenue is significant or not really isn't the point. That revenue isn't guaranteed every year. We could go totally into buy mode starting today and still miss the playoffs. The team as a whole is trending in the wrong direction. We have a product with a depreciating market. The smart thing to do is to sell off the assets and invest in a newer, better product.

That I agree with, I am a draft and development fan. But I either have to believe they sign expensive UFAs and rent annually because they really think this time will be different, or I have to believe they do so because it increases their chances for the playoffs/revenue from. I don't want to believe either but unless there is a 3rd option I have to take the lesser of two evils, so to speak.

 

[GAGLine]

That I agree with, I am a draft and development fan. But I either have to believe they sign expensive UFAs and rent annually because they really think this time will be different, or I have to believe they do so because it increases their chances for the playoffs/revenue from. I don't want to believe either but unless there is a 3rd option I have to take the lesser of two evils, so to speak.

I don't think they will ever go into a season without trying to be competitive. You won't see them taking on bad contracts to get prospects and draft picks. You won't see them spending significantly less than the cap. But I still don't think the potential playoff revenue is a factor, or at least not a significant one. There is revenue to be had in failure too. Drafting stud prospects generates revenue in terms of merchandise sales. Imagine if we miss the playoffs and win the draft lottery. How many Rasmus Dahlin jerseys do you think they would sell?

 

[NYR]

I believe, and it is just my belief, that Sather is not ready to move on from him. I think Sather has found his pond hockey coach and as such, AV will have a very long leash. One that may well extend into next season.

Yeah, that certainly could be but even still, I don't ever recall seeing a coach get this long a leash.

 

[RangerBoy]

One more new project for the Oak View Group.

 

[Ail]

Not going to lie, I feel like this deadline and and offseason are the final evaluation for me as to whether or not I like JG as a GM considering the moves he has made thus far. He's had some time to clean up the Sather era mistakes, and I do like some of the moves he has made since taking over, but this whole catering to AV shit has really left a bad taste in my mouth. Every good move he has made has been negated by the dumb f*** coach and he lets it happen. At what point is he also accountable?

 

[Trxjw]

I'm hopeful that this transition period is going to be Gorton's opportunity to build the team he wants to build, instead of having to work within the confines of what was built previously. I still remain skeptical about how much autonomy Gorton has had to this point. I understand how some folks feel that's a bit of a convenient excuse, but it's just my take away from it all.

 

[silverfish]

I'm hopeful that this transition period is going to be Gorton's opportunity to build the team he wants to build, instead of having to work within the confines of what was built previously. I still remain skeptical about how much autonomy Gorton has had to this point. I understand how some folks feel that's a bit of a convenient excuse, but it's just my take away from it all.

It's not like he was an outside hire, though. He's been in the organization since what, 2007? He's been the GM since July 1st 2015, if you don't believe he was running the show at that draft. I tend to believe he was. I don't know why the organization would allow a lame-duck GM to make those trades, but this is the Rangers, and Sather, we are talking about.

I agree with @Ail. I'm on my last legs with JG. Let's see what he does at the deadline.

More and more every day, I think the organization needs to be purged top to bottom, but here we are. A sham of an operation being propped up by getting lucky in the 2000 draft.

 

[Trxjw]

It's not like he was an outside hire, though. He's been in the organization since what, 2007? He's been the GM since July 1st 2015, if you don't believe he was running the show at that draft. I tend to believe he was. I don't know why the organization would allow a lame-duck GM to make those trades, but this is the Rangers, and Sather, we are talking about.

I agree with @Ail. I'm on my last legs with JG. Let's see what he does at the deadline.

More and more every day, I think the organization needs to be purged top to bottom, but here we are. A sham of an operation being propped up by getting lucky in the 2000 draft.

I mean, it's not like Sather doesn't have a history of overruling people and doing what he wants to do. That's kind of been his M.O. since his days in Edmonton. So I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Gorton sent Talbot to Edmonton at the behest of Sather. Obviously the big gaping hole in my theory is why would Gorton stay if he wasn't going to be given control? I could think of a few reasons, but I'm not going to drag everyone into the world of speculation. Lets just say that I know plenty of people, myself included, that have stuck it out at jobs with the promise of something more meaningful coming their way.

In my mind this is indicative of Sather finally stepping aside, and Gorton finally being anointed by Dolan, but we'll see what happens over the next few months. Should be an interesting ride at the very least.

 

[Miamipuck]

He has a lot of chips in front of him at the poker table, I am not going to call him a bad player until I see what he does with those chips. He's made some good moves and some not so good moves. I don't think he's going to fire AV until the offseason.

Anwyay, before I say he sucks or freak out over anything he needs to do the following or I may put up billboards:

1.) Get rid of AV- he's a shit coach. This an offseason move.
2.) Maximize the trade deadline value of Nash, Grabner, Holden etc.
3.) Trade McD only for an immense over payment.

I suppose there are some other moves he can do but if he f***s up any of the above, I hope he gets canned as well.

 

[Inferno]

I've been a huge jg supporter...but the longer be keeps av employed the more I'll want jg gone....as of now I'm fine with it...but if he's still our coach next season...I'm done.

 

[Irishguy42]

If the plan is to tank, then it's fine to keep AV as coach for the remainder of the season. But yeah...Gorts needs to fire AV once media break up day happens. Like...tell AV to keep his car running.

 

[Overcast]

If the plan is to tank, then it's fine to keep AV as coach for the remainder of the season. But yeah...Gorts needs to fire AV once media break up day happens. Like...tell AV to keep his car running.

I think this is where JG's head is at. Trade whoever around the deadline for the best deals which should include at the absolute minimum 1 more 1st round pick, finish out the season and see where our own 1st lands, then wheel and deal at the draft and start with a new coach for next season.

 

[Holocene]

I've been a huge jg supporter...but the longer be keeps av employed the more I'll want jg gone....as of now I'm fine with it...but if he's still our coach next season...I'm done.

Yeah, if we're embracing the suck for this year then we might as well keep AV. My opinion of Gorton will drop dramatically if AV is still the coach to start next season.

 

[haveandare]

I still think it’s wise to can AV now so that we have some sample of these players under a normal system to judge who to keep and move.

 

[leetch99]

Bring back JD to run the whole show....can them all and let God sort it out . Maybe Quenville as a head coach...and maybe as GM if we can't get Tallon .

 

[effen]

I still think it’s wise to can AV now so that we have some sample of these players under a normal system to judge who to keep and move.

what normal system? anyone they bring in is going to be interim and there's not enough practice time to implement new offensive, defensive, and breakout systems. you'll probably change a few things but thats what training camp and preseason is for

 

[Mikos87]

So the annual financials for MSG Co. show revenue over the past five years of $722M, $914M, $1.07B, $1.12B, and $1.32B. Missing out on two home playoff games this year isn't even a drop in the bucket. Even if they missed out next year it's not a drop in the bucket as tickets still sell at the Garden even if the team is mediocre (people might not show up, but the tickets sell).

Have you seen the ticket prices go up those years?

That's a huge chunk of it... and in addition to that... they are always charging a premium for events.. because it's NYC... they can get away with the hikes. Seriously look at the rev multiplier and take into consideration you have the same occupancy and the same 365 days a year.

Kudos to the Ops at MSG.. That is some masterful work.

 

[Mikos87]

Bring back JD to run the whole show....can them all and let God sort it out . Maybe Quenville as a head coach...and maybe as GM if we can't get Tallon .

JD would be great.

There seems to be a messy transition in CLB happening right now... Maybe it's Torts, maybe it isn't.

But I'd totally throw money at JD to be the Hockey Ops President and let him bring in the scouting staff he wants.

Both STL & CLB are his doing.

 

[leetch99]

JD would be great.

There seems to be a messy transition in CLB happening right now... Maybe it's Torts, maybe it isn't.

But I'd totally throw money at JD to be the Hockey Ops President and let him bring in the scouting staff he wants.

Both STL & CLB are his doing.

JD knows the business...seems like a natural fit for us . BJ's are going nowhere fast with Torts there . I can see him gone very soon unless they get a streak going . Sure would love to see JD back in the fold . I think it is the best card the Rangers can play at this point .

 

[Mikos87]

JD knows the business...seems like a natural fit for us . BJ's are going nowhere fast with Torts there . I can see him gone very soon unless they get a streak going . Sure would love to see JD back in the fold . I think it is the best card the Rangers can play at this point .

I think it's the most natural move. He's the true heir to Sather's thrown imo.

The guy JD named GM and hired in both STL & CLB... is a guy that he used to hype up as a commentator with the Rangers. Guy has his pulse on talent evaluators. That would be the biggest improvement to the Rangers imo. The Rangers scouting outside of a few regions absolutely suck.