Player Discussion Jeff Gorton

[AlternateSideParking]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/derek-stepan-sucks.2417825/

It's early still, but, yeah, I think Gorton knew what he was doing.

I've been watching a lot of the Yotes. He is truly terrible. I'm sure he's a good off-ice mentor and Keller and Dvorak have a center than can guide them along the way, but man he is slower than ever.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Honeymoon period is over and he has a lot of work to do.

The work has been happening before your very eyes. He is balancing a delicate act of rebuilding this organization's depth vs. trying to stay competitive. Its no easy task. True test will come at the trade deadline.

 

[aufheben]

The only trade I flat out didn't like was the Eric Staal trade. I consider that trade a final gamble with that core before really taking over and making changes (Brassard for Zibanejad). I'll give him a mulligan on that one since IMO he's done great things since.

In a matter of 2 years he's acquired not just the best center, but also the highest draft pick the Rangers have had in at least a decade. Those are even more impressive given that they were done during the same time span. Usually if you're going out and buying a #1C, you're loses high draft picks, not gaining them.

 

[Savant]

The work has been happening before your very eyes. He is balancing a delicate act of rebuilding this organization's depth vs. trying to stay competitive. Its no easy task. True test will come at the trade deadline.

Correct.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/derek-stepan-sucks.2417825/

It's early still, but, yeah, I think Gorton knew what he was doing.

I mean I get Gorton's logic, but Stepan has always been a slow starter.

It would not surprise me in the least if he goes on a run of 35 points in his next 30 games or something like that. I'd bet my left you know what that he still finished the season with over 50 points.


I find it utterly hilarious that fans of a team that has a horrible roster with a lot of holes and kids learning are complaining about Stepan. He was the 1C for a team that was very successful and the glue that held the offense together here, but apparently he's lazy and poison on the Coyotes. Maybe their shit roster and losing culture is a bigger culprit.

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

The work has been happening before your very eyes. He is balancing a delicate act of rebuilding this organization's depth vs. trying to stay competitive. Its no easy task. True test will come at the trade deadline.

Yes, it's hilarious people complaining about Gorton when really his only bad move was the Staal trade.

He's trying to get younger while staying good. He's done a pretty good job of it so far.

The complainers just want to see a fire sale and get as many futures and assets as possible, but it's way more intricate to be a good GM than that. It's not black and white, it's not either your roster is perfect and you're a contender or it's not and you should have a fire sale.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Yes, it's hilarious people complaining about Gorton when really his only bad move was the Staal trade.

He's trying to get younger while staying good. He's done a pretty good job of it so far.

The complainers just want to see a fire sale and get as many futures and assets as possible, but it's way more intricate to be a good GM than that. It's not black and white, it's not either your roster is perfect and you're a contender or it's not and you should have a fire sale.

Yes. The Staal trade was right out of the Glen Sather playbook and the type of rudderless move that has plagued the organization for a long time. I dont see any reason whatsoever to be buyers in any capacity at the deadline this year. That could change over the next few months, but I don't see any avenue where giving away futures is a good road to go down.

 

[NikC]

This Stepan trade looks awful right now... and if you say it's early. .. ok... but you've pissed away this season.

Unless you're trading an asset to get another center???

The Smith trade is awful. $5m for this guy???

Gorton has been better than Sather... but he does this season and next will define this team for quite see time...

No margin for error

 

[Inferno]

Stepan has been awful for the Yotes. Shattenkirk has been spectacular for the Rangers.
You don't see many teams trading huge contracts on players with low footspeed and lotsa years to go without taking back basically any dollars AND picking up a former top ranked prospect AND picking up a top 10 draft pick.

It's a good trade. It's the throwing in Raanta aspect of it that sucks. But it is what it is. Even in retrospect i would STILL do this trade, because I was worried about Stepan falling off a cliff for a while now as he's become less and less of a threat and more and more of a guy relying solely on his wings (I felt like Kreider carried his ass all over the ice...but thats just me)

 

[NikC]

I've no problem with trading Stepan...
But you're losing a 55p player with NO replacement. ... but you want to make the playoffs? If they wind up trading for a center to salvage this season that would be awful...

 

[Gravey22]

want to see Gorton turnover Holden for a decent bottom six forward. Two player solid defender with grit and grind that can fore-check get to the net occasionally potting one.
get with AV and see about testing Litteri, Graves and Pionk . Let's see what we got !

 

[Matt Rentfree]

I've no problem with trading Stepan...
But you're losing a 55p player with NO replacement. ... but you want to make the playoffs? If they wind up trading for a center to salvage this season that would be awful...

110% Agree - if Zib is out long term (I really hope not) and we're not winning games, trade Nash/Grabner/Holden at the TDL and get more picks for the draft. Hopefully one of Chytil/Andersson (or both) is ready to go next season plus a healthy Zib. Trading for a center so they can squeak into the playoffs would be dumb.

 

[Inferno]

I've no problem with trading Stepan...
But you're losing a 55p player with NO replacement. ... but you want to make the playoffs? If they wind up trading for a center to salvage this season that would be awful...

Hayes is his replacement..and frankly Hayes has been better than Stepan imho. He's been REALLY good and is really carrying his line at times..I always felt like Stepan was more of a passenger on his lines..dont feel the same way about Hayes.

The issue is you dont have a replacement for Hayes on the 3rd line..you can live w/ that though..while you develop.

This was never going to be our year..i always felt it, i still feel it, and im fine trading pieces at the deadline to reload for next year.

 

[NikC]

They truly need to be sellers at the deadline. Anything else is madness.

Next season won't be their time either... that's ok...

I'm really concerned about Goaltending. Henrik is still good, but not worth $8m... not necessary.

He can still keep this team "good enough " for them to truly make NO progress in rebuilding. ...

I'm living in fantasy land, but they should have kept Talbot, asked Hank to accept a trade... he's not winning a cup in NY. . Hope he retires.... soon

 

[Tawnos]

I've no problem with trading Stepan...
But you're losing a 55p player with NO replacement. ... but you want to make the playoffs? If they wind up trading for a center to salvage this season that would be awful...

Well, it's not just Stepan. They lost Lindberg too, who I think could have moved up into a 3C role, keeping Miller on the wing and making the entire team deeper.

In fact, I think that remains this team's biggest issue. They need one more forward... a middle 6 player whether wing or center. It would go a long way towards stabilizing the team.

 

[haveandare]

Well, it's not just Stepan. They lost Lindberg too, who I think could have moved up into a 3C role, keeping Miller on the wing and making the entire team deeper.

In fact, I think that remains this team's biggest issue. They need one more forward... a middle 6 player whether wing or center. It would go a long way towards stabilizing the team.

IMO we'll have at least one next year in Chytil or LA, most likely Chytil given that he's just a step away in the AHL now. I don't think it's worth spending assets this year to get that type of player when we have some options in the system who have realistic shots of being ready next year. Take this team, add Chytil playing even at a Hayes in his rookie year level and you have a way better team that can match up well with almost anyone. We'll need another solid d-man though IMO.

 

[Tawnos]

IMO we'll have at least one next year in Chytil or LA, most likely Chytil given that he's just a step away in the AHL now. I don't think it's worth spending assets this year to get that type of player when we have some options in the system who have realistic shots of being ready next year. Take this team, add Chytil playing even at a Hayes in his rookie year level and you have a way better team that can match up well with almost anyone. We'll need another solid d-man though IMO.

I don't really disagree except to point out that we'll need two next year, most likely. The one we need now and the one we will need to replace Nash.

 

[haveandare]

I don't really disagree except to point out that we'll need two next year, most likely. The one we need now and the one we will need to replace Nash.

Good point. Not sure how it'd work if Chytil and LA were both ready. You'd want them both to play center ideally, but two rookie centers in the same year is risky and that'd mean putting Hayes I guess at wing right when he's getting the hang of the two way play that goes with playing center. Not sure who between he two would be better on wing. LA should be a better defensive player and therefore a more natural center, but the prospect of Chytil's size and skill at center is very enticing.

 

[will1066]

If we see the fortune of having both LA and Chytil come up and stick, we'd be in good shape at C with Zib, Chytil, Hayes, and LA. So much so that Miller can move back to wing, as the forward who replaces Nash.

 

[haveandare]

If we see the fortune of having both LA and Chytil come up and stick, we'd be in good shape at C with Zib, Chytil, Hayes, and LA. So much so that Miller can move back to wing, as the forward who replaces Nash.

Run with

CK - Zib - Buch
? - Hayes - Zucc
Grabs? - Chytil - Miller
Vesey - Andersson - Fast

We'll still be short a winger and still have Lias playing very, very few minutes for his skill level. We could really, really use a young LWer with some promise.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Run with

CK - Zib - Buch
? - Hayes - Zucc
Grabs? - Chytil - Miller
Vesey - Andersson - Fast

We'll still be short a winger and still have Lias playing very, very few minutes for his skill level. We could really, really use a young LWer with some promise.

Re-sign Nash for 4.5m AAV

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Hayes is his replacement..and frankly Hayes has been better than Stepan imho. He's been REALLY good and is really carrying his line at times..I always felt like Stepan was more of a passenger on his lines..dont feel the same way about Hayes.

The issue is you dont have a replacement for Hayes on the 3rd line..you can live w/ that though..while you develop.

This was never going to be our year..i always felt it, i still feel it, and im fine trading pieces at the deadline to reload for next year.

If this was not our year, why did we spend 11 million dollars per season on UFA defensemen?

 

[mike14]

If this was not our year, why did we spend 11 million dollars per season on UFA defensemen?

I'd assume the simple answer would be so that we could have them for subsequent years, when it may be our year...
Shattenkirk wouldn't have been available next season so it was now or never (I still don't like the Smith contract)

 

[SnowblindNYR]

The only trade I flat out didn't like was the Eric Staal trade. I consider that trade a final gamble with that core before really taking over and making changes (Brassard for Zibanejad). I'll give him a mulligan on that one since IMO he's done great things since.

In a matter of 2 years he's acquired not just the best center, but also the highest draft pick the Rangers have had in at least a decade. Those are even more impressive given that they were done during the same time span. Usually if you're going out and buying a #1C, you're loses high draft picks, not gaining them.

I just read that Staal has 23 points in 25 games. I still don't think that this is a good trade even if he played well for us, but in light of the fact that he's still a good player but was just a bad fit for us I think that trade goes from an F to a C-.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I'd assume the simple answer would be so that we could have them for subsequent years, when it may be our year...
Shattenkirk wouldn't have been available next season so it was now or never (I still don't like the Smith contract)

I think thats probably the reasoning, but I'm not sure it makes much sense. Why is next season going to be so much better?