Player Discussion Jeff Gorton Part II

True Blue

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
30,092
8,362
Visit site
You lost me at "2 of the last 3 first round prospects". Which one of Chytil, Miller, Lundkvist, Kakko, Lafreniere, and Schneider were you generous enough to include with your two cherry-picked (and misguided) examples?
We have also arrived at the point to where Hartford now has been forgotten about and ruined. Though such statements are made with the same validity as me saying that the killer clowns from outer space are residing in CT.

Now there is a need to tie in Drury to the Quinn/Gorton hate.

I suppose there are no examples of players incubating in Hartford and then stepping into the line up. Oh, wait.

Under this management, the coaching and development in Hartford is finally there.
 
Feb 27, 2002
37,943
8,028
NYC
We have also arrived at the point to where Hartford now has been forgotten about and ruined. Though such statements are made with the same validity as me saying that the killer clowns from outer space are residing in CT.

Now there is a need to tie in Drury to the Quinn/Gorton hate.

I suppose there are no examples of players incubating in Hartford and then stepping into the line up. Oh, wait.

Under this management, the coaching and development in Hartford is finally there.
It's also been a while since there has been the pure number of players in Hartford that have legit potential futures with the Rangers.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: haveandare

True Blue

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
30,092
8,362
Visit site
It's also been a while since there has been the pure number of platers in Hartford that have legit potential futures with the Rangers.
Absolutely true. And, only looking at it from Hartford's perspective, it did not help them that Kakko, Fox, Lafreiniere & Miller jumped straight to the big club.

Having just typed that out, I am not sure people recognize how rare that is. And there are 4 players in two years that have done that for the franchise.
 
Feb 27, 2002
37,943
8,028
NYC
Absolutely true. And, only looking at it from Hartford's perspective, it did not help them that Kakko, Fox, Lafreiniere & Miller jumped straight to the big club.

Having just typed that out, I am not sure people recognize how rare that is. And there are 4 players in two years that have done that for the franchise.

That says a lot. That those four guys have never played there.

I'm trying to remember the last time Hartford had the pure number of legit prospects that it has now. Callahan, Dubinsky, Girardi, McDonough years?
 

will1066

Registered User
Oct 12, 2008
48,071
67,117
Neal Pionk has played a full season's worth of games now for Winnipeg. He's a 53-point defenseman for them.

Eff me.
 

Tawnos

A guy with a bass
Sep 10, 2004
29,334
11,128
Charlotte, NC
That says a lot. That those four guys have never played there.

I'm trying to remember the last time Hartford had the pure number of legit prospects that it has now. Callahan, Dubinsky, Girardi, McDonough years?

McDonagh never played in Hartford with those other 3. They were already established NHLers by the time McDonagh was a pro. In addition to those three guys though, you had Dawes with a couple of great seasons in the AHL at 20 and 21 and Korpikoski's first seasons in North America as legit prospects.
 

True Blue

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
30,092
8,362
Visit site
Yep. But I'm talking more about the time there have been that many player currently in Hartford with a legit chance to contribute at the next level at the same time.
Can we now kill the asinine argument that Hartford has somehow been forgotten about and that Drury should go and ruin Pittsburgh the way he ruined Hardford?
 
Feb 27, 2002
37,943
8,028
NYC
McDonagh never played in Hartford with those other 3. They were already established NHLers by the time McDonagh was a pro. In addition to those three guys though, you had Dawes with a couple of great seasons in the AHL at 20 and 21 and Korpikoski's first seasons in North America as legit prospects.
Yeah, thanks. I wasn't sure of the timing.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tawnos

will1066

Registered User
Oct 12, 2008
48,071
67,117
But how is he on defense? The scoring stats don't mean much if he's a dumpster fire everywhere else.

Can't tell you, and I don't pretend to know. Just stat glancing at his numbers and was surprised he put up 53 points in his first 82 games as a Jet. He's also been a plus player since becoming a Jet, fwiw.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hi ImHFNYR

Hi ImHFNYR

Registered User
Jan 10, 2013
7,173
3,087
Wherever I'm standing atm
I think he's done a great job tbh. No GM is perfect. They all make mistakes. Look at this off season, signing JJ was a mistake but the other acquisitions like Blackwell, Rooney, Bitetto have been very good. His trades have been pretty damn good too overall. The Nash trade that essentially enabled us to get Strome, Miller, and Lindgren is pure genius. Mika for Brassard and Fox for 2 2nd's are pretty damn good too.

I love this post bc it IS good to recognize all the positives here. It's also why my motto this season is to just START looking toward Gorton. Bc there has been a lot of good despite the multiple negatives.

You do have to give credit for Maximizing Spooner...but then choosing to trade away a 2 to get rid of Staal just to keep strome and sign JJ instead of bringing back fast? All that towers over that trade in terms of how bad it is.

Full credit for bringing in Mika and getting him a fantastic re-sign deal...but then we give Kreider and Trouba atrocious deals that are longer and more expensive. Plus with Trouba we gave up a significant amount to get him when WPG had themselves cornered. Then Trouba hasn't been all that great...nowhere near worth the cap plus trade assets we gave up.

Trading Nash and getting back Lindgren? Fantastic.
Trading Stepan and blowing the extremely promising return? Atrocious (Well not the trading stepan part. That was great...it's the blowing all the assets part).
Seriously still mystified by what happened with Lias and Kravtsoc both last season. Is that linked to how little offensive development we've seen in pretty much every young prospect? Did hiring Quinn just create a stifling environment where everyone is walking on eggshells?

Jury is out on panarin. If his game collapses in the next season or two, we made an egregious error. Similarly, if both his and Kreider's games are maintained for the next 4 or 5 seasons then Gorton has to get credit for the moves paying off. Though the Kreider one seems like it's guaranteed to be brutal in another 2 seasons.

It's just been such a mixed bag
 
  • Like
Reactions: NYR

True Blue

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
30,092
8,362
Visit site
You do have to give credit for Maximizing Spooner...but then choosing to trade away a 2 to get rid of Staal just to keep strome and sign JJ instead of bringing back fast? All that towers over that trade in terms of how bad it is.
Strome was trending to being a 70 point player last year. The Rangers had no one ready to step in and be a #2 center. What do you propose Gorton should have done? Entered a season with Chytil who did not look like he was ready last year?

Again, Martin was hired to be Quinn's assistant head coach. The JJ recommendation came from him. Right or wrong,

All what towers over the Spooner trade? Are you now comparing unrelated acts and conflating them into 1?
Full credit for bringing in Mika and getting him a fantastic re-sign deal...but then we give Kreider and Trouba atrocious deals that are longer and more expensive. Plus with Trouba we gave up a significant amount to get him when WPG had themselves cornered. Then Trouba hasn't been all that great...nowhere near worth the cap plus trade assets we gave up.
At the time of Kreider's contract, it was seen as below market level for a top line wing. Not sure what you are complaining about.

As for Trouba, one need not think hard as to what this defense would have looked like without him last year or this And it really is not pretty.
Trading Nash and getting back Lindgren? Fantastic.
Trading Stepan and blowing the extremely promising return? Atrocious (Well not the trading stepan part. That was great...it's the blowing all the assets part).
The Nash trade has nothing to do with the Stepan trade. But as we are discussing the Stepan trade, perhaps it is beneficial to remember that Stepan had 4 years 2 $6.5m left on this contract. There is value in creating valuable cap room. And I see that we are back to DeAngelo. Who for the last 1.5 years was putting up some of the best offensive numbers by a Rangers defenseman since somebody named Leetch skated around here. So let us re-examine the deal. Stepan and Raanta for the #7 pick and DeAngelo. Oh, and there's the cap space. Yeah, I could see why you think that Gorton "wasted" the assets. Evaluating the trade withe the hindsight of being able to know that DeAngelo suffered a meltdown is a completely reasonable way to judge a trade.
Seriously still mystified by what happened with Lias and Kravtsoc both last season. Is that linked to how little offensive development we've seen in pretty much every young prospect? Did hiring Quinn just create a stifling environment where everyone is walking on eggshells?
Considering that Kravstov decided to do what the organization told him he needed to do while at Traktor, I would say that nothing happened aside from a young player pulling his head out of his tukhus.

Regarding Andresson, apparently the kid has not been able to pull his head out of his tukhus and all his feelings of entitlement got him is to LA where he does not play many minutes and is currently producing zilch. Must be the stifling environment they have in LA.

There is no smoke, not a single smoke signal that would make one believe that such an environment exists in NY. At least not the one that you suggest.
Jury is out on panarin. If his game collapses in the next season or two, we made an egregious error. Similarly, if both his and Kreider's games are maintained for the next 4 or 5 seasons then Gorton has to get credit for the moves paying off. Though the Kreider one seems like it's guaranteed to be brutal in another 2 seasons.
And you continue to only want to examine each and every move and signing after enough time has passed. That is great for re-litigating but not how real life plays out. In the real world, one evaluates things based on the current data points. Not from some sort of crystal ball that they can use to peer into the future.
It's just been such a mixed bag
Not even a little bit
 
  • Like
Reactions: Peltz

PuckLuck3043

Stairway To Heaven
Nov 15, 2017
10,739
16,536
Hudson Valley
I love this post bc it IS good to recognize all the positives here. It's also why my motto this season is to just START looking toward Gorton. Bc there has been a lot of good despite the multiple negatives.

You do have to give credit for Maximizing Spooner...but then choosing to trade away a 2 to get rid of Staal just to keep strome and sign JJ instead of bringing back fast? All that towers over that trade in terms of how bad it is.

Full credit for bringing in Mika and getting him a fantastic re-sign deal...but then we give Kreider and Trouba atrocious deals that are longer and more expensive. Plus with Trouba we gave up a significant amount to get him when WPG had themselves cornered. Then Trouba hasn't been all that great...nowhere near worth the cap plus trade assets we gave up.

Trading Nash and getting back Lindgren? Fantastic.
Trading Stepan and blowing the extremely promising return? Atrocious (Well not the trading stepan part. That was great...it's the blowing all the assets part).
Seriously still mystified by what happened with Lias and Kravtsoc both last season. Is that linked to how little offensive development we've seen in pretty much every young prospect? Did hiring Quinn just create a stifling environment where everyone is walking on eggshells?

Jury is out on panarin. If his game collapses in the next season or two, we made an egregious error. Similarly, if both his and Kreider's games are maintained for the next 4 or 5 seasons then Gorton has to get credit for the moves paying off. Though the Kreider one seems like it's guaranteed to be brutal in another 2 seasons.

It's just been such a mixed bag

It's been way more good than bad IMO. The Nash trade netted us Strome(59 points last year and I don't care who he was playing with) a first that we used to draft Miller and Lindgren. Absolutely fantastic trade. Fox for 2 2nd's - amazing. Mika for Brassard, cmon man, another outstanding trade. Those 3 moves right there should give the haters pause. Panarin signing up in the air? He was a hart finalist last year and top 5 in scoring this year and he's only 29. Expensive but the good FA's always are. I liked the Kreider signing. He's playing better and he's a 29 yo physical beast so he has a few years left before the old folks home. He is also a respected vet that this team needs in the locker room with the losses of Staal and Hank. The loss of a 2nd to get rid of Staals salary is something he had to do to sign the RFA's including Strome who was only signed for 2 years. Who else is going to play center tbh? Maybe he did overpay for Trouba but it can't be denied that this team need help on the backend. The Lias thing was definitely unfortunate but how many picks behind Lias have been successful? This was a negative also but again taking everything into account I think he has done a fine job. He has basically transformed the core of this team around in 3-4 years and we have 1 of the best prospects pools in the league. Look at the talent we have on the team and in the minors. I know that luck was a part of the last 2 drafts but still this team can be loaded with talent in a few years. Again, no GM is infallible. They all make mistakes. I trust JD/JG to make the right decisions to keep moving this team forward.
 
  • Like
Reactions: haveandare

aufheben

#Norris4Fox
Jan 31, 2013
53,866
27,721
New Jersey
FYI, Rangers and Kings are the top-2 teams on Wheeler’s 2021 Prospects Pool Rankings.

How years now have the Rangers been in the top-5? Like it can’t be possible to f*** this up, right?

...right?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: haveandare and Cmox

Hi ImHFNYR

Registered User
Jan 10, 2013
7,173
3,087
Wherever I'm standing atm
Fox for 2 2nd's - amazing. Mika for Brassard, cmon man, another outstanding trade. Those 3 moves right there should give the haters pause. Panarin signing up in the air? He was a hart finalist last year and top 5 in scoring this year and he's only 29.

The loss of a 2nd to get rid of Staals salary is something he had to do to sign the RFA's including Strome who was only signed for 2 years. Who else is going to play center tbh? The Lias thing was definitely unfortunate but how many picks behind Lias have been successful? He has basically transformed the core of this team around in 3-4 years and we have 1 of the best prospects pools in the league.
I meant to mention fox and trading up for K'andre I just wasnt going over literally every good, bad or up in the air move, just doing some small compare and contrast.

And whoa, whoa, I said full credit for Mika! I didn't say anything bad about that move. Great, great move and signing.

Like I said, if Panarin suffers a very typical and massive dropoff in a season or two then being a hart finalist last year is absolutely beyond meaningless. C'mon now, last season was great from him, who said different?

You don't throw out the last 3 or 4 seasons of his deal if that's when we're actually competing again and he's an 11 M man playing like a 5-6 M albatross. We didn't need him last season, we all know that was still a rebuilding year (but obviously if you want him long term we had to sign him a year earlier than we really needed to). We need him more this season. We need him for the next 3-4 seasons if our prospects are panning out and we're in PO contention. Same with kreider.

As for Strome, I'm not a huge subscriber to the notion he couldn't have found a better center for the 2nd line. If this was the literal only option that's a mark against him, not for him. Plus you completely ignored the point that we signed Strome and JJ instead of Fast. So he couldnt find something better than Strome and he went for JJ instead of Fast. I don't see that as an impressive use of the cap/resources

Not many picks behind Lias have been successful but that's not saying much considering the draft wasn't that long ago. EIther way that's not enough for me to overlook what happened with both lias and Kravtsov at the same time last season. Meanwhile, so many prospects with promise seem to be stagnating offensively. Plus there is the plethora of guys like Rykov, Hajek (D wise, still up in the air but not looking goos...) and all the later picks who were projected to cover bottom 6 F spots yet never panned out. I don't give a GM credit for just changing a teams core. That's the bare minimum expected of the job. He's got to do it in a way that leads to sustained success and extended cup contention.

So far we have yet to experience any success and we're right at the point where it ought to start happening. If not this season then next.
 
Last edited:

True Blue

Registered User
Feb 27, 2002
30,092
8,362
Visit site
As for Strome, I'm not a huge subscriber to the notion he couldn't have found a better center for the 2nd line. If this was the literal only option that's a mark against him, not for him.

I don't give a GM credit for just changing a teams core. That's the bare minimum expected of the job. He's got to do it in a way that leads to sustained success and extended cup contention.

So far we have yet to experience any success and we're right at the point where it ought to start happening. If not this season then next.
So who? Who was the better option?
Plus you completely ignored the point that we signed Strome and JJ instead of Fast. So he couldnt find something better than Strome and he went for JJ instead of Fast. I don't see that as an impressive use of the cap/resources
Those signings and non-signing were not realated to each other.
Not many picks behind Lias have been successful but that's not saying much considering the draft wasn't that long ago. EIther way that's not enough for me to overlook what happened with both lias and Kravtsov at the same time last season.
Hasn't this horse been beaten to death, resurrected and then beaten to death again?
Meanwhile, so many prospects with promise seem to be stagnating offensively.
Again, who? What prospects are stagnating offensively?
Plus there is the plethora of guys like Rykov, Hajek (D wise, still up in the air but not looking goos...) and all the later picks who were projected to cover bottom 6 F spots yet never panned out.
Is every trade asses supposed to be hit on? That you are actually pointing to Rykov and Hajek as evidence of failure of the front office is pretty comical.

And who are "all the later picks" who were projected to cover bottom-6 that never panned out? From where I am sitting, Lemieux and Rooney form two thirds of a pretty good 4th line and one need not look too far ahead in the future to believe that players like Cuyelle and Berard taking regular shifts on the 3rd line.
 

haveandare

Registered User
Jul 2, 2009
19,000
7,622
New York
Bottom line and pair prospects not panning out is routine. If a kid is pegged as a bottom of the roster player as a prospect, not reaching their ceiling means they won’t be NHL players.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad