Player Discussion Jeff Gorton Part II

[Trxjw]

Me, "Look I might just have a bias here so this is only what I think, there are other possibilities"

You: "Your bias clearly is manipulating you into thinking things! So that justifies me being a dick about it!"

K

IDK what to tell you, dude. We already know exactly what happened from countless insiders, reporters, and the organization itself. At this point speculating to push your narrative equates to you trying to sell a car to someone who already has a car and your pitch is "but what if you didn't have a car!?"

You can get defensive all you like. Doesn't change what I, and several others at this point, have said.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Some of you act like you're personally attacked bc someone "speculates". Half of what's said here is speculation...maybe more.

ADA in particular has been the subject of rampant speculation since we got him. That speculation (especially in the last few days but not exclusively just about the last few days) was part of my last post.

But when someone openly acknowledges they might have a bias and that there are plenty of other explanations why not consider being civil instead of jumping at the chance to be passive aggressive, condescending and rude? I didn't say anything nasty like "Anyone who doesn't see what I see is dumb/delusional/etc." Yet two of you have to act like clowns about it anyway. I dont get some of you.

 

[NoQuitInNewMexico]

Get some gamestop stock for the guy or something, imagine how boring this place will be if he's under contract in a couple months and we're still talking about this

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

From the outside, it just seems like you are trying to continue your vendetta against Gorton and JD by tying the DeAngelo situation around their collective necks for having extended him. That, in turn, warrants the crystal ball line.

Maybe bc I literally said I had a bias in my post?

But at the same time, from the outside it would also look like you are trying to continue your vendetta against anyone who says anything even remotely negative about them.

The difference is I literally acknowledged my bias IN THE POST and even said there were definitely other possibilities. I also said "either way I just see alarming signs."

Goes beyond just ADA, he's just the latest issue involving the NYR. EVERY organization has its issues and mistakes. So just having some issues isn't proof of complete ineptitude or anything. Which is why I constantly preface by saying I have concerns bc it would be wrong to definitively state the NYR FO sucks right now. There HAVE been some good things to point to. I never say anything to the contrary.

You seem to always ignore anything that doesn't fit what you decided and you compound it by being rude, arrogant and condescending for no reason. (Which is pretty much a staple of a lot of the older posters here) Then half the time you end up being wrong bc either you missed something important in the post your responded to... or you end up wrong bc, just like the people you get mad at, you're just speculating too.

EDIT: One other thing. ADA has been followed for YEARS with rumors about his attitude and "problems". We extend him. It backfires. And yet you pretend like it's just people saying they should've had crystal ball? To me that's just incredibly dishonest. I have no problem saying "Hey they maybe really thought they were working on it with him and he totally fell off this season." But then you also have stuff like all the people saying "They've been desperately trying to trade him and no one bit". Which implies maybe he HASNT exactly been an angel so they wouldnt need a crystal ball. Which again, like I said, some stuff just doesnt add up

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

Sure, if you ignore the actual sequence of events then it sends a lot of alarm signals. However, if you read the information that's been shared, it all makes perfect sense. This huge rift with the team and Tony only developed in the last month or so. Which is... *checks calendar*.. several months after they gave him a new deal.

Indeed. And per @Edge's reporting, the new contract may actually have factored into the escalation, as Tony then felt "he had made it" and could do whatever the F he wanted.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

IDK what to tell you, dude. We already know exactly what happened from countless insiders, reporters, and the organization itself. At this point speculating to push your narrative equates to you trying to sell a car to someone who already has a car and your pitch is "but what if you didn't have a car!?"

You can get defensive all you like. Doesn't change what I, and several others at this point, have said.

Who wouldn't be defensive when they acknowledge their bias, say they're open to other explanations and then have to put up with two guys being jerks about it?
I'm saying in that post "Hey it doesn't make sense that this was the last straw based on the last two years, something isn't adding up."

One possible answer to that is he has been acting like an insufferable twat the last month and wasn't really doing that previously. So he lost the locker room so to speak in the last month. But you didn't say that. Neither did TB. You both chose to be nasty about it instead. Idk why you're both like that.

I dont know what to tell you. I literally said there were other possibilities and none of what's reported in the immediate aftermath of him being waived conflicts with what I was saying.

When what I said was "Something doesn't add up" and "here's some things I think but I have a bias here", I'm basically saying "There might be something I missed". You guys got all carried away and totally missed it bc you're both in such a rush to be shitty towards everyone who doesn't agree with you

EDIT: NOW I'm gathering a bunch of stuff came out that he was doing some shit the last month that totally tanked his rep. I'm seeing something about choking? Well that shit wasn't out the other day so I didn't realize it. Which is why Im frustrated bc I'm admitting in that post that I might have missed something here.

 

[True Blue]

You seem to always ignore anything that doesn't fit what you decided and you compound it by being rude, arrogant and condescending for no reason. (Which is pretty much a staple of a lot of the older posters here) Then half the time you end up being wrong bc either you missed something important in the post your responded to... or you end up wrong bc, just like the people you get mad at, you're just speculating too.

We're all speculating. Some of our speculations are just a little more informed than others.

When what I said was "Something doesn't add up" and "here's some things I think but I have a bias here", I'm basically saying "There might be something I missed". You guys got all carried away and totally missed it bc you're both in such a rush to be shitty towards everyone who doesn't agree with you

Sometimes, 2+2 really does add up to 4 and not 5.

 

[True Blue]

Who wouldn't be defensive when they acknowledge their bias, say they're open to other explanations and then have to put up with two guys being jerks about it?

I am biased against this person. Because I am biased, all of my viewpoints will be slanted and I will not think clearly because I do not care as I cannot stand him.

But hey, let's have a fair and open discussion.......

 

[Trxjw]

Who wouldn't be defensive when they acknowledge their bias, say they're open to other explanations and then have to put up with two guys being jerks about it?
I'm saying in that post "Hey it doesn't make sense that this was the last straw based on the last two years, something isn't adding up."

One possible answer to that is he has been acting like an insufferable twat the last month and wasn't really doing that previously. So he lost the locker room so to speak in the last month. But you didn't say that. Neither did TB. You both chose to be nasty about it instead. Idk why you're both like that.

I dont know what to tell you. I literally said there were other possibilities and none of what's reported in the immediate aftermath of him being waived conflicts with what I was saying.

When what I said was "Something doesn't add up" and "here's some things I think but I have a bias here", I'm basically saying "There might be something I missed". You guys got all carried away and totally missed it bc you're both in such a rush to be shitty towards everyone who doesn't agree with you

EDIT: NOW I'm gathering a bunch of stuff came out that he was doing some shit the last month that totally tanked his rep. I'm seeing something about choking? Well that shit wasn't out the other day so I didn't realize it. Which is why Im frustrated bc I'm admitting in that post that I might have missed something here.

I thought you were posting all of that having read all of the info. Meaning that you were implying that other things might have happened instead of what we knew actually happened. Didn't realize you were behind on what had actually transpired. Hence why I thought you were ignoring reality. My apologies for jumping to conclusions and your frustration is warranted. Been a long couple days.

 

[WojtekWolski86]

Wasn’t Buch on PP1 the last few games?

Instead of Kreider for a game, now they have Fox Panarin and Ziba at the top of the Umbrella. So one side of the ice cant one time the puck.

 

[NYR]

Let's "honestly" evaluate Jeff Gorton for a change.

This guy hasn't done anything noteworthy yet..

He's created an environment that stinks of bad morale.

He continues to stick with a coaching staff that has no system or any direction.

I'll guarantee this team as a whole hates DQ.

He gets bent over in every trade because he waits until the last second on every move.

His decisions have derailed numerous players moving forward.

How is this guy the GM of an original six hockey team?

Someone please explain how all this nonsense works to me..

 

[True Blue]

How is this guy the GM of an original six hockey team?

Someone please explain how all this nonsense works to me..

Please explain what exactly where you expecting 2.25 years since the letter?

Am game. What would a "real" GM of an original 6 franchise have done, given the circumstances and time frame? I await with breathless anticipation of this response.

 

[SA16]

The PP isnt a disaster because Tony wasnt on the point. It's a disaster because Quinn and his staff refuse to put a LH shot on the RW so there is threat to shoot on both sides.

Instead we have PP1 that must force feed the puck left to shoot and PP2 that forces the puck right to shoot.

The PP wasn't a disaster because it had a RH shot on a RW. It was a disaster because the players were executing poorly.

 

[NYR]

Please explain what exactly where you expecting 2.25 years since the letter?

Am game. What would a "real" GM of an original 6 franchise have done, given the circumstances and time frame? I await with breathless anticipation of this response.

You're really waiting that long for me to call you a knucklehead? Lol
Given the circumstances?
How long does it take to build a bottom 6?
Why hire a coach who doesn't have a clue?
None of the younger prospects want anything to do with these clowns.
How about getting a real coaching staff that actually employs a real system that the players respect?
Morale is at an all time low to the point where a top 5 point dman is out all the while Smith is still their go to utility man between defense and center.
Are you seriously f***ing kidding me?
TB.. Get your head out of your f***ing ass already!!!

 

[Tawnos]

The real debate here should be whether or not Gorton should’ve drawn a line in the sand to begin with. DeAngelo crossing it left the GM little choice - “asset management” or not.

Sometimes I think it’s helpful to frame things in terms of a regular workplace. If an employee violates company policies on conduct, he gets discipline. In a lot of workplaces, you’ll get an official verbal warning. If policy is violated again, you’ll get an official written warning. Sometimes multiples, depending on the employer and what the violations actually look like. Eventually, if the behavior continues, the employee will end up on a final warning. Once the final warning is issued, if there are further violations it ends in termination.

That’s essentially what happened here. I don’t know for sure that hockey teams have HR policies laid out in the same way, and there are certainly other issues involving contracts and possibilities of trades... but DeAngelo essentially violated conduct policies enough times to end up on a final warning, and ultimately got fired.

Gorton “drawing a line in the sand” is pretty standard practice for managers in any company.

 

[mrmovies779]

Obviously the big issue here is Gorton didnt use the Jedi Force to see into the future before this happened-grounds for immediate dismissal in my opinion

 

[TheGortonConspiracy]

This guy hasn't done anything noteworthy yet..

Brassard trade netted Zib + 2nd
Skjei was a cap dump + got a 1st
Dumped Spooner who had no business in the NHL for Strome
Shipped Vesey at the right time
Gauthier is interesting
Drafted Barron in the 6th round
Chytil at 21st overall
Joey Keane in the 3rd round
Lundkvist at 28 overall
Few others... Pajunemi... Nash

David Quinn was an experiment and it seemed like a good idea at the time. College coaches were hot, Montgomery had went to Dallas and it was rumored we were after him.

Is Gorts perfect? No, but a lot of the moves you have issues with looked OK at the time and now in hindsight are being scrutinized.

I understand the sentiment. I've only just got over the McD/Miller trade and still trying to see past the Hayes deal. But the guy really hasn't done as bad a job as some are suggesting. Imagine how livid this fanbase would be if he had straight up lost a hockey trade in the same fashion as Zib/Brass or Strome/Spooner

 

[LionsHeart]

I think Gortons done a good job. Of course not every move is perfect, and I do question how long Quinn is going to be here. I think this year was tough because of the cap situation. That Chytil-Kakko line really could’ve used a quality veteran presence, but the money just wasn’t there.

I don’t completely blame him for ADA. He was a troubled but really talented kid. Took a chance on him and it ultimately didn’t work out.

 

[True Blue]

How long does it take to build a bottom 6?
Are you seriously f***ing kidding me?

What is wrong with Lemieux, Howden/Rooney, Digi on the 4th line? What was wrong with the Chytil-Kakko tandem on the third line?

Why hire a coach who doesn't have a clue?

Let's face it. To you anyone but a complete re-tread coach does not have a clue.

None of the younger prospects want anything to do with these clowns.

What evidence are you putting forth for this piece of dung sentence?

How about getting a real coaching staff that actually employs a real system that the players respect?

Same statement as above? What evidence can you show that the players do not respect the coaches?

And when did they stop respecting Allaire of all people?

Morale is at an all time low to the point where a top 5 point dman is out all the while Smith is still their go to utility man between defense and center.

Wait, this is a gem even for an internet message board. In order to improve morale, they decided to cut DeAngelo and play Smith. Even for you to spin what happened in such a manner is a brand new level of idiocy. And just as I thought it could not get any worse.

TB.. Get your head out of your f***ing ass already!!!

Yawn....rant....drivel.....rant some more....wash, rinse repeat

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

What is wrong with Lemieux, Howden/Rooney, Digi on the 4th line? What was wrong with the Chytil-Kakko tandem on the third line?

Let's face it. To you anyone but a complete re-tread coach does not have a clue.

What evidence are you putting forth for this piece of dung sentence?

Same statement as above? What evidence can you show that the players do not respect the coaches?

And when did they stop respecting Allaire of all people?

Wait, this is a gem even for an internet message board. In order to improve morale, they decided to cut DeAngelo and play Smith. Even for you to spin what happened in such a manner is a brand new level of idiocy. And just as I thought it could not get any worse.

Yawn....rant....drivel.....rant some more....wash, rinse repeat

I blame JG for not solving the nationwide Covid crisis.

 

[True Blue]

I blame JG for not solving the nationwide Covid crisis.

I heard that there is a picture out there which places him on the grassy knol in Dallas.

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

I blame JG for not solving the nationwide Covid crisis.

Seriously. It's not like we asked him to solve the GLOBAL crisis. Just in THIS country. Sheesh.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

I blame JG for nothing outside of a few roster moves he directly made...yknow...his job? But I do have concerns with the roster and our drafts/trades. Hurt my confidence in JG a bit.

Why are some of you are so offended by that notion? The desperate JG bootlicking here is really weird.

"Crystal ball" has quickly become one of the more idiotic arguments. In essence a GMs whole job IS having to "look through a crystal ball". What do some of you think drafting and doling out millions to free agents is about? Throwing darts? Pure luck? Then why have a GM at all? Eventually you're wrong too often about too many different things.

Go figure, that same guy with a history of red flags blows up after being re-signed. But some of you still keep throwing this dumb "you wanted him to have a crystal ball!" line as if there's nothing in the past to indicate this as a possibility (and as if it's not pretty much exactly how you all evaluate a GM too)

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Please explain what exactly where you expecting 2.25 years since the letter?

Am game. What would a "real" GM of an original 6 franchise have done, given the circumstances and time frame? I await with breathless anticipation of this response.

I think some people are overlooking that a (re)build is more than just trading vets for prospects/picks and then inserting you players you trade for and draft into the lineup. There's talent development—which is as difficult, if not more so, than what comes before that. And have two irregular seasons back to back makes that process even more difficult. And that is exactly where this team is: developing young talent. They are by no means a finished product.

That the Rangers are an Original Six team is just self-fluffing.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Seriously. It's not like we asked him to solve the GLOBAL crisis. Just in THIS country. Sheesh.

I'm not an unreasonable man...