I am not a regular here because every time I come here there is this widespread idea that coaching is making players or detroying them. This is pure BS. Houle is a good coach, he won't destroy any player, as he will not turn an average one into a star. Joshua Roy is not good because of Houle. This focus on coaching as a determining factor here is the worst thing. Success is in large part because a player has what is needed to be successful. Struble was good from the get go last season, and still is now. Houle has nothing to do with it. In the same way, if a player like Farrell struggles, it's not Houle's fault either.
Player Discussion Jayden Struble Part 2
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Ezpz
No mad pls
- Apr 16, 2013
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I mean Norlinder played 10 minutes a night last year and didn't get PP time and then was one of our better dmen in camp and ran an NHL PP effectively and would have started the year with the big club if Matheson's injury had been worse. It's very easy for coaches to hinder players by putting them in the wrong situations. Norlinder is back in that secondary role in Laval despite being the most developed dman there. If Roy were on the fourth line without PP he wouldn't have 4 points in 2 games. Which is the way Mysak has been used from the beginning. At the national level Mysak and Kulich were equals. Granted Kulich is clearly and always was the better prospect, I just don't see how anyone could believe Mysak would have this little success with actual minutes.
Which is fine if you want to blame the players entirely, but there's a reason Bergevin was the least successful drafting GM in history because that was his mantra.
You are confusing pre-season games of the Habs with real AHL games that are much harder to play in. Most pre-season games are below the AHL level with many junior playes and NHL veterans not playing at 100% to avoid injuries.
Also, say what you want about Bergevin, he did some dumb stuff like giving that awful contract to Gallagher, but Suzuki, Anderson, Caufield, Guhle, Xhekaj, Harris, Lekhonen (Barron), Romanov (Dach), RHP, Ylonen, Evans, Roy, Mailloux, Struble, Trudeau, Norlinder, Kidney, Farrell, Montembeault and Primeau were all dradted or acquired by him.
Also, say what you want about Bergevin, he did some dumb stuff like giving that awful contract to Gallagher, but Suzuki, Anderson, Caufield, Guhle, Xhekaj, Harris, Lekhonen (Barron), Romanov (Dach), RHP, Ylonen, Evans, Roy, Mailloux, Struble, Trudeau, Norlinder, Kidney, Farrell, Montembeault and Primeau were all dradted or acquired by him.
Ezpz
No mad pls
- Apr 16, 2013
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And then you look at Hughes who got a #1D, two #2C's and multiple firsts and seconds for what was essentially garbage in a single year from guys Bergevin would have re-signed or pushed (and failed) for the playoffs with. The lists between the two are pretty comparable and then you realize Hughes was on the job for one year and Bergevin for ten (and that half of those prospects will bust and he got Anderson out a third overall pick). The core Hughes started with finished last in the league and deservedly so, it was propped up by Price for a decade. In two years now our top 6 has more or equal Hughes acquisitions than Bergevin. Bergevin didn't even leave the team with 6 top 6 players. The guy he traded Sergachev for couldn't even get a 7th at the deadline. That's with Hughes having to manage the awful cap situation Bergevin left too. No doubt we would have weaponized our cap space for even more firsts and seconds the past two years if we'd actually had any cap. Or been able to send out guys like Armia or Gallagher in exchange for different bad contracts that can actually contribute.
Ironically Harris was not going to sign here under Bergevin either and Hughes knew him personally as a teammate of his son (and Marty's) and convinced him to come here. Monty was only claimed because Carey was going to rehab and only played a handful of games before Bergevin was canned, it wasn't some great pro scouting move; all his development has come in Montreal under Hughes' regime and coaching staff. Lehkonen was only able to get Barron+ because Marty took him off of the fourth line. Lehkonen also would have been kept and in our top 6 if Bergevin hadn't messed up the cap so badly. I can give credit to Bergevin for every draft pick and miss he made, but you have to look at the nuance behind deals, signings and claims. For years he claimed you can't get centers and Hughes got Dach and Monahan (and got paid to take Monahan) in one summer and paid less than Bergevin did for Dvorak who is decidedly not a top 6 player. Monahan looks better for us than Kadri does for Calgary.
Anyways, the last games of the pre-season after the fat have been trimmed for have higher quality of competition then the AHL. AHL has vet caps from any pro league and pre-season has vet minimums from NHL experience only. You're thinking more of the prospect showcase where the competition level is low. After the final cuts everyone is playing to keep their spot. Particularly Ottawa had little to no garbage in the lineup because they didn't have roster or cap space and no prospects had a chance of making the club. They were carrying something like one PTO and one prospect that didn't make the final team and Norlinder still looked good. Desharnais looked good getting 80% offensive zone starts and top PP minutes with the two best wingers on the team and yet couldn't crack 30 points in other roles. Almost like coaching makes a difference on the way players can influence the game. Kind of like how Beck was 1.3whatever ppg in Mississauga and struggling to crack 1.0 in Peterborough in the same season in the exact same number of games played for each club.
I am not saying coaches solely bust players, but it is very easy to see that coaches can influence the amount of progress a player can make and can cause detrimental progress into non-vital areas of the game like when Hamilton was trying to convert Tinordi into a fighter. The fact that Tinordi is in the NHL now years later shows that he had the potential to be more to me. Nobody is a finished product coming into the AHL. If you think any cup winning team has a farm club that just randomly assigns icetime and whoever scores the most or looks the best without any planning or thoughts gets called up I am not sure what to say.
Struble looks to be a decent one, and he will certainly benefit from having the trust of his coach and the organization the way that others in the reverse situation will be negatively effected. It is not a controversial statement. Players don't learn to get to the NHL on their own and very rarely are non-first rounders ready without massive learning curves ahead to get to the NHL. Additionally, a lot of first rounders are rich kids who also had been attending camps run by NHLers, training with NHLers, and receiving advice from NHLers, who were repeating coaching wisdom, for years before their draft year. Skills are only one component.
There's no such thing as a self-made man.
bcv
My french sucks.
- Sep 18, 2010
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Yes. The healthy scratches were Beaudon, Keepor and Galopeau
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salbutera
Registered User
- Sep 10, 2019
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Don’t know that for a fact..
As for Struble, he was always an elite skater w physical dominance & high end puck movement to his game. His issue has been translating high risk plays he got away with in lower levels at college & now pro levels - trying to force a pass/play in D & neutral zone etc.
Decision making in other words…if he can figure that out…. look out, sky’s the limit
As for “self made man” - the great players are driven by elite hunger which forces elite performances not only in games but at practice, off ice prep and being students of the game.
A level of dedication vast majority of NHL pros simply don’t have, also can’t be taught or “developed”
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Ezpz
No mad pls
- Apr 16, 2013
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I wouldn't disagree with any of what you said, I just think coaches are part of the recipe. A wagyu steak is a wagyu steak but coaches are the salt or the charcoal. Likewise, a bad coach is a pot of boiling water.
Struble is starting to emerge as a solid prospect with size, skating and ruggedness. He has easily been Laval's best Dman. A young player worthy of keeping an eye on.
DAChampion
Registered User
- May 28, 2011
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I just want to say that I support the use of food-based analogies.
Mrb1p
PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
Pompeius Magnus
Registered User
TBH, Trudeau has been very up and down for me. Struble is way more of an actual pro Dman right now.
Mrb1p
PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
Yes, even last night Trudeau had some moments where he wasnt very good. Just found him a lot more decent than Norlinder Mailloux or Keefer.
Trudeau started the year horribly, he was so bad in game 1 that he was scratched in game 2. He has gotten better but nowhere near how good he was last year.
Mailloux gets a pass as being very raw.
Mrb1p
PRICERSTOPDAPUCK
Yes for sure.
Its mostly Norlinder and the Keefer guy that Im not sure about. Probably could use actual AHL pros there instead of them. A guy like Wideman could be really useful if he ever comes back.
It goes to show you how misleading preseason games are when vets are really going at about 60% effort which makes young players look much better, case in point...Norlinder who looked ready. Looking at him now against fully focused AHL players he barely looks like an AHLer.
HuGort
Registered User
He's been good defensively. Starting to come around offensively
BenchBrawl
Registered User
- Jul 26, 2010
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Like Roy, Struble was a favorite of mine from Day 1. My posting history should be clear on that.
I hope he succeeds.
I hope he succeeds.
26Mats
Registered User
- Jun 23, 2018
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I wonder if he's the next call up after Lindstrom.
He seems to be fine-tuning his game well in Laval. Hopefully we can stay healthy and he can continue his development in Laval for now.
SlafySZN
Registered User
- May 21, 2022
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He has more offense in him than what we’re used to see of him. He’s starting to show it
Estimated_Prophet
Registered User
- Mar 28, 2003
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He has hands down been the most impressive dman in Laval so far.
Skip Bayless
The Skip Bayless Show
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Positive assessments to the same effect have come raining down in the last two weeks in particular.
Gonna be interesting to see how he keeps evolving and how long they keep him down.
ChesterNimitz
governed by the principle of calculated risk
- Jul 4, 2002
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But that may be a case of damning him with the faintest of praise. The Laval defence has been generally putrid this season so far. Career AHLers and underperforming prospects. Struble is easily the best of a poor lot so far. What I like best is his assertiveness. There are no half measures for this mobile, strong defenceman. But he over commits sometimes (as getting caught at the opposing blueline) and is prone to turnovers in all zones of the ice. If he keeps his game simple, his other physical attributes will allow him to reach the next level.
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Pompeius Magnus
Registered User
He can bring a more well rounded game on a third pairing that a guy like Harris for exemple just doesn't have, if nothing else. Struble doesn't flash a ton of offense but he has better tools to make something out of it when he does do it.
