Player Discussion Jayden Struble Part 2

[Estimated_Prophet]

The problem isn't as much the totals, which of course are beyond brutal, as 1 goal for a Senior I don't think I can even recall a top 50 pick getting just 1 goal off the top of my head. What concerned me more was their coach, when Jerry Keefe took over when Madigan got the bump up to AD, he was well known for his PP's and it didn't take long for him to go with other players on the PP which with that lineup and lack of skill on the blueline was not a good look.

Most NCAA coaches are terrible relative to NHL coaches, as are CHL coaches as well. I would consider his deployment or lack thereof to be a nothing burger. Struble's ppg was also higher than Harris' ppg when comparing their 1st two NCAA seasons despite Struble being one year younger. He showed good offensive promise and was being deployed differently than he was in his final two seasons. I think his talent was as plain to see back then as it is today and he is much better now than he was then despite the numbers. This is just not a program that was remotely conducive to having offence generated from the back end. They really seem to discourage dmen from taking slap shots even more so than the current trend would seem to dictate. There was no doubt that he was their best defender this season and whether he scored 8 goals or 1 goal it would mean little to me as he just wasn't in a great spot to do so and the eye test definitely shows him flash far more ability than the 1 goal would suggest.

I wouldn't consider Struble to be a strong candidate to run a PP anyways but I guarantee you that he scores more than 1 goal if North Eastern had used him regularly on the top PP unit. McDonagh put up 0.386 ppg at Wisconsin and has broke the 40 point barrier 3 times in the NHL in years where scoring in the NHL was significantly lower than it is today. I wouldn't rule out Struble's better NCAA production of 0.462 ppg having real potential to translate into 30 point seasons somewhere down the line. This still allows for the understanding that McDonagh was a better prospect via the eye test but allows for stats to support Struble putting up 75% of McDonagh's production in a league where scoring has risen over 20 % from the first two times McDonagh broke 40 points in New York.

I am not saying that Struble was better than Harris at North Eastern nor am I saying that he was as good or will be as good as McDonagh but I do think that the eye test supports the 30 point threshold as a reasonable possibility and the stats actually bear that out as well with a little context.

I am not confident that he would break 30 points with Montreal due to the number of talented dmen that we have in our system and the likelihood that he would be well down the pecking order for offensive deployment. He would likely need a trade to open up such opportunities which seems like a real possibility which kind of sucks but is a testament to the strength of our D pool.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Most NCAA coaches are terrible relative to NHL coaches, as are CHL coaches as well. I would consider his deployment or lack thereof to be a nothing burger. Struble's ppg was also higher than Harris' ppg when comparing their 1st two NCAA seasons despite Struble being one year younger. He showed good offensive promise and was being deployed differently than he was in his final two seasons. I think his talent was as plain to see back then as it is today and he is much better now than he was then despite the numbers. This is just not a program that was remotely conducive to having offence generated from the back end. They really seem to discourage dmen from taking slap shots even more so than the current trend would seem to dictate. There was no doubt that he was their best defender this season and whether he scored 8 goals or 1 goal it would mean little to me as he just wasn't in a great spot to do so and the eye test definitely shows him flash far more ability than the 1 goal would suggest.

I wouldn't consider Struble to be a strong candidate to run a PP anyways but I guarantee you that he scores more than 1 goal if North Eastern had used him regularly on the top PP unit. McDonagh put up 0.386 ppg at Wisconsin and has broke the 40 point barrier 3 times in the NHL in years where scoring in the NHL was significantly lower than it is today. I wouldn't rule out Struble's better NCAA production of 0.462 ppg having real potential to translate into 30 point seasons somewhere down the line. This still allows for the understanding that McDonagh was a better prospect via the eye test but allows for stats to support Struble putting up 75% of McDonagh's production in a league where scoring has risen over 20 % from the first two times McDonagh broke 40 points in New York.

I am not saying that Struble was better than Harris at North Eastern nor am I saying that he was as good or will be as good as McDonagh but I do think that the eye test supports the 30 point threshold as a reasonable possibility and the stats actually bear that out as well with a little context.

I am not confident that he would break 30 points with Montreal due to the number of talented dmen that we have in our system and the likelihood that he would be well down the pecking order for offensive deployment. He would likely need a trade to open up such opportunities which seems like a real possibility which kind of sucks but is a testament to the strength of our D pool.

Of course it is too early to tell for sure, but I liked what I saw of Struble last year in Laval at the end. I'm not giving up on him as a future Habs fixture on the blueline, a Langway type though not as tall.

 

[Habs Halifax]

There will be surprises and Struble might be one of them. Tuch is another. So many guys we just don't talk about due to our deep pool. If this was 2015, they would be hyped like Bitten, Mete, Juulsen, Scherbak, Lernout, etc.

Struble, Tuch, Kapanen probably turn into the ones I listed but there is a chance they don't and we have dept pieces like Evans. It's still early with a lot of them.

 

[Tyson]

There will be surprises and Struble might be one of them. Tuch is another. So many guys we just don't talk about due to our deep pool. If this was 2015, they would be hyped like Bitten, Mete, Juulsen, Scherbak, Lernout, etc.

Struble, Tuch, Kapanen probably turn into the ones I listed but there is a chance they don't and we have dept pieces like Evans. It's still early with a lot of them.

Struble has all of the tools from what I have seen to make it in the NHL. The only thing I haven't been able to gauge is his hockey instincts. This will determine everything.

 

[1909]

Struble has all of the tools from what I have seen to make it in the NHL. The only thing I haven't been able to gauge is his hockey instincts. This will determine everything.

Yes, he has the attributes of a solid, reliable #6 , physical d-man.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Struble has all of the tools from what I have seen to make it in the NHL. The only thing I haven't been able to gauge is his hockey instincts. This will determine everything.

Agreed. There is still some potential there but this is a big season for him.

 

[Tyson]

He is also going to be a very unpleasant person to deal with when it comes to the rough stuff.

 

[montreal]

Most NCAA coaches are terrible relative to NHL coaches, as are CHL coaches as well. I would consider his deployment or lack thereof to be a nothing burger. Struble's ppg was also higher than Harris' ppg when comparing their 1st two NCAA seasons despite Struble being one year younger. He showed good offensive promise and was being deployed differently than he was in his final two seasons. I think his talent was as plain to see back then as it is today and he is much better now than he was then despite the numbers.

I wouldn't consider Struble to be a strong candidate to run a PP anyways but I guarantee you that he scores more than 1 goal if North Eastern had used him regularly on the top PP unit.

Which shows Harris just got better and better each season, Struble has not, though injuries clearly didn't help matters.

My point wasn't the 1 goal as much as what it says as to why he wasn't on the PP. Keefe is said to be one of the top coaches for the PP in the NCAA.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Which shows Harris just got better and better each season, Struble has not, though injuries clearly didn't help matters.

My point wasn't the 1 goal as much as what it says as to why he wasn't on the PP. Keefe is said to be one of the top coaches for the PP in the NCAA.

I don't see how that shows that Struble did not get better? He got much better as his defensive game is miles ahead of where it was in his 1st two seasons and is is not possible to lose skill at that age. He is just a perfect example of why stats are useless without context.

I agree that Harris was a better NCAA player but I am not at all convinced that he will ultimately be a better NHLer than Struble. I like both of them so I don't want to pit one against the other.

Time will tell and I am certainly not guaranteeing that Struble will be a 30+ point player but I do submit that his stats misrepresent his potential.

 

[MtlSars]

I think it speaks volume to the depth and quality of prospects we have on LD. Struble with a solid year in the AHL (which I'm willing to bet he will be solid) will warrant some considerations.

Guhle Matheson Xhekaj Harris Hutson

Even with Harris playing RD (which is an asset in being versatile and he can pull it off) and Matheson traded for a kings ransom with Hutson coming in.... It'll be an uphill battle for him to crack our lineup.

But if the last 2 seasons have thought us anything is that injuries will give him a chance to showcase himself. Once he gets a spot I'd wager it'll be hard to take him out of the lineup.

 

[Goldthorpe]

Guhle Matheson Xhekaj Harris Hutson

And Engstrom.

Speaking of underated Ds...

But yeah, very, very deep on the left side.

 

[montreal]

I don't see how that shows that Struble did not get better? He got much better as his defensive game is miles ahead of where it was in his 1st two seasons and is is not possible to lose skill at that age. He is just a perfect example of why stats are useless without context.

I agree that Harris was a better NCAA player but I am not at all convinced that he will ultimately be a better NHLer than Struble. I like both of them so I don't want to pit one against the other.

Time will tell and I am certainly not guaranteeing that Struble will be a 30+ point player but I do submit that his stats misrepresent his potential.

His production as he got older went south, usually a bad sign as you want to see it go the other way of course. His defensive game did improve a ton but with almost no offense that's certainly a concern.

 

[Team_Spirit]

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

At the very least he’s intriguing depth/gap filler before the big guns come. Could be a fantastic depth guy which is good to have.

I guess he was smart enough to concentrate on his D which could explain why his point totals plummeted maybe?

Glad that he’s still relevant after a patchy development period so far. It says a lot. Nice to have someone that big and punishing and mobile on your depth chart.

 

[montreal]

At the very least he’s intriguing depth/gap filler before the big guns come. Could be a fantastic depth guy which is good to have.

I guess he was smart enough to concentrate on his D which could explain why his point totals plummeted maybe?

Glad that he’s still relevant after a patchy development period so far. It says a lot. Nice to have someone that big and punishing and mobile on your depth chart.

he's struggled to show much of any offense in the NCAA, he did improve his defensive game a lot.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

he's struggled to show much of any offense in the NCAA, he did improve his defensive game a lot.

Plenty of flashes though in his first two years. The D always seemed questionable but shown some great rushes I found. I like that he modified his game

 

[montreal]

Plenty of flashes though in his first two years. The D always seemed questionable but shown some great rushes I found. I like that he modified his game

In all 4 years in the NCAA he would show flashes of offense, he would rush the puck up ice, make a nice move but almost every time it lead to nothing. Now NU had issues scoring outside of the Nucks McDonough as only 2 players on the team had more then 10 goals but in the past he's also had some empty net and a goal from center ice where the goalie was caught napping so you really can't have much worse production for a top 50ish pick.

That said he plays a power game so there's a lot to like about him, just that I don't expect much in the way of offense from him.

 

[DinosaurBones]

In all 4 years in the NCAA he would show flashes of offense, he would rush the puck up ice, make a nice move but almost every time it lead to nothing. Now NU had issues scoring outside of the Nucks McDonough as only 2 players on the team had more then 10 goals but in the past he's also had some empty net and a goal from center ice where the goalie was caught napping so you really can't have much worse production for a top 50ish pick.

That said he plays a power game so there's a lot to like about him, just that I don't expect much in the way of offense from him.

Agreed. But I dont know if (or if they did, why), people expected him to ever be a 30, even 20 point guy. I always thought of him as a powerful D who if he could reach the potential I expected would be a nice skating 3rd pairing D who can lay the body and chuck up maybe 15-20 points as a rotating 3rd pair. Whether right now thats still what his projection is or not, there really wasnt flashes that made me ever think he would be more. And if that is what he becomes there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. He is a nice depth piece on the squad I think going forward

 

[montreal]

Agreed. But I dont know if (or if they did, why), people expected him to ever be a 30, even 20 point guy. I always thought of him as a powerful D who if he could reach the potential I expected would be a nice skating 3rd pairing D who can lay the body and chuck up maybe 15-20 points as a rotating 3rd pair. Whether right now thats still what his projection is or not, there really wasnt flashes that made me ever think he would be more. And if that is what he becomes there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. He is a nice depth piece on the squad I think going forward

I would often be left disappointed by his play in that he would do all this stuff in the offensive zone but it just got frustrating that so little would come of it. Harris was just so much better, you could just see how he had NHLer written all over him despite the lack of size/strength.

With Struble you can see how he could carve out an NHL career since he's got NHL skating/mobility/speed/strength to go with his compact frame. He loves to hit and is solid in his own end though I always had some doubts about the IQ. So if the offense can develop a little bit, it will be very interesting to see what he can do.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

Agreed. But I dont know if (or if they did, why), people expected him to ever be a 30, even 20 point guy. I always thought of him as a powerful D who if he could reach the potential I expected would be a nice skating 3rd pairing D who can lay the body and chuck up maybe 15-20 points as a rotating 3rd pair. Whether right now thats still what his projection is or not, there really wasnt flashes that made me ever think he would be more. And if that is what he becomes there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. He is a nice depth piece on the squad I think going forward

His skill is very underrated and making linear projections based on stats alone is tried, tested and proven method of failure. He is a very good skater with a strong slapshot and a good wrist shot. If you actually watch him he has some flair as well as I have watched him execute drop passes and behind the back crossing passes that are atypical of dmen with 15-20 point upside.

He has the physical toolset to be a 30+ point producer and the creative flair to realize that potential. North Eastern was certainly not an offensive juggernaut and lacked the type of skilled forwards who can turn strong transition plays from the D directly into goals which is why dmen's point totals can greatly fluctuate from team to team or system to system.

Early in his tenure everybody was commenting on his offensive upside but have now allowed stats to become a lens that distorts his actual abilities and drives a narrative that I believe to be incorrect.

He may never produce, of course that is possible but he is still a prospect and to ignore an obvious toolkit in favour of blind stats is and always will be a scouting pitfall that too many fans land in.

I take this kid over Norlinder all day every day and I would be very surprised if he doesn't have a successful NHL career even if it is just as a physical bottom pairing dman who protects his teammates. I love the idea of having both of him and Xhekaj on the same team as they are both going to be fierce, intimidating players who will stand up for their teammates and punish their opponents.

 

[Tyson]

His skill is very underrated and making linear projections based on stats alone is tried, tested and proven method of failure. He is a very good skater with a strong slapshot and a good wrist shot. If you actually watch him he has some flair as well as I have watched him execute drop passes and behind the back crossing passes that are atypical of dmen with 15-20 point upside.

He has the physical toolset to be a 30+ point producer and the creative flair to realize that potential. North Eastern was certainly not an offensive juggernaut and lacked the type of skilled forwards who can turn strong transition plays from the D directly into goals which is why dmen's point totals can greatly fluctuate from team to team or system to system.

Early in his tenure everybody was commenting on his offensive upside but have now allowed stats to become a lens that distorts his actual abilities and drives a narrative that I believe to be incorrect.

He may never produce, of course that is possible but he is still a prospect and to ignore an obvious toolkit in favour of blind stats is and always will be a scouting pitfall that too many fans land in.

I take this kid over Norlinder all day every day and I would be very surprised if he doesn't have a successful NHL career even if it is just as a physical bottom pairing dman who protects his teammates. I love the idea of having both of him and Xhekaj on the same team as they are both going to be fierce, intimidating players who will stand up for their teammates and punish their opponents.

The only question that remains is whether the NHL speed will be a factor for him. He looked solid against AHL players but as we all know...the NHL is a whole different animal.

 

[DinosaurBones]

I would often be left disappointed by his play in that he would do all this stuff in the offensive zone but it just got frustrating that so little would come of it. Harris was just so much better, you could just see how he had NHLer written all over him despite the lack of size/strength.

With Struble you can see how he could carve out an NHL career since he's got NHL skating/mobility/speed/strength to go with his compact frame. He loves to hit and is solid in his own end though I always had some doubts about the IQ. So if the offense can develop a little bit, it will be very interesting to see what he can do.

100% on all accounts. Will be a fun year to watch in Laval development wise to see how he adjusts to the pro levels in both ends

 

[DinosaurBones]

His skill is very underrated and making linear projections based on stats alone is tried, tested and proven method of failure. He is a very good skater with a strong slapshot and a good wrist shot. If you actually watch him he has some flair as well as I have watched him execute drop passes and behind the back crossing passes that are atypical of dmen with 15-20 point upside.

He has the physical toolset to be a 30+ point producer and the creative flair to realize that potential. North Eastern was certainly not an offensive juggernaut and lacked the type of skilled forwards who can turn strong transition plays from the D directly into goals which is why dmen's point totals can greatly fluctuate from team to team or system to system.

Early in his tenure everybody was commenting on his offensive upside but have now allowed stats to become a lens that distorts his actual abilities and drives a narrative that I believe to be incorrect.

He may never produce, of course that is possible but he is still a prospect and to ignore an obvious toolkit in favour of blind stats is and always will be a scouting pitfall that too many fans land in.

I take this kid over Norlinder all day every day and I would be very surprised if he doesn't have a successful NHL career even if it is just as a physical bottom pairing dman who protects his teammates. I love the idea of having both of him and Xhekaj on the same team as they are both going to be fierce, intimidating players who will stand up for their teammates and punish their opponents.

I was in no way saying that I have been stat watching, actually I was saying the complete opposite. People see 2nd round pick and a fairly successful D+1 year and think all signs point to a point producing D.
My point was that he has the toolkit to be an effective D, but wont be relied in in my opinion to be a point producer from the back end. I can see him playing in the NHL because of the fact that I have watched him.
With the depth D prospects in the system and where they are now there's no real reason to think he would be more than a 3rd pairing D, and would be given less offensive opportunities. A 3rd pairing if he even makes it there with limited O opportunities that hits 30+ points is a wild thing to to think even on any team, but that doesnt mean he cant be a reliable player.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

I was in no way saying that I have been stat watching, actually I was saying the complete opposite. People see 2nd round pick and a fairly successful D+1 year and think all signs point to a point producing D.
My point was that he has the toolkit to be an effective D, but wont be relied in in my opinion to be a point producer from the back end. I can see him playing in the NHL because of the fact that I have watched him.
With the depth D prospects in the system and where they are now there's no real reason to think he would be more than a 3rd pairing D, and would be given less offensive opportunities. A 3rd pairing if he even makes it there with limited O opportunities that hits 30+ points is a wild thing to to think even on any team, but that doesnt mean he cant be a reliable player.

I agree with you, thank you for clarifying your opinion for me. It is very unlikely that he would receive enough icetime and enough offensive situational usage to come close to 30 points with Montreal.

My projection for a prospect's upside is never based on the organization that holds his rights as that just would not be an accurate way to compare prospect's relative upside to other prospects. I am trying to paint a stylistic image of a player relative to proven NHLers as a potential finishing point in his development. I feel as though he could be a player who even if he was on the bottom pairing, fans could see the potential upside if he ever played higher up in the lineup.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I hope he gets a good opportunity with us before if we are going to flip him eventually