Confirmed with Link: Jay Woodcroft and Dave Manson fired - no more Woody during NNN - Kris Knoblauch hired, Coffey as assistant

Drivesaitl

Finding Hemingway
Oct 8, 2017
49,702
64,112
Islands in the stream.
They want the defense to be aggressive versus passive. Ekholm made a smart play to gap up at the blue line which you want to see. Unfortunately Bouchard missed his coverage which led to the open man receiving a pass with a wide open kill shot. This defense doesn't want to passively give up the blue line and defend at net front if it doesn't have to (really no defense wants that). Just a learning moment for a young defender who hesitated and missed his assignment.
Thanks. I think it comes down to how we were taught, and that I'm a fossil. heh. I'm old school in D coverage. Don't open up what you don't have to.

I'm Willie Mitchell Kiss approach. Stay in front of net, bang anything in sight. ;)

But if Ekholm stays back do you think its a GA? Ekholm created the opening by vacating, not Bouchard. If thats whats wanted I don't agree with the approach. Ekholm is best used as a rock around his net. jmo
 

Drivesaitl

Finding Hemingway
Oct 8, 2017
49,702
64,112
Islands in the stream.
Of course it does. This is a high speed, collision sport. Why I usually post 'at game speed'. It is a game of mistakes because of the high speed, fast reaction time involved. On that goal unfortunately Bouchard's hesitation was exposed. I cut Bouchard huge swath as a young, developing defenseman. Feel free to absolve Bouchard but it was his guy in coverage which got the open, high danger look.
Thanks again. Nice to have this nature of discussion.

Thanks as well for your patience in my Booch-like understanding of the play hehe

but its another reason that sometimes KISS approach can be advised.

it may be too much presently to expect Booch to make that correct instantaneous read there. Most D we have wouldn;t
 
  • Like
Reactions: Behind Enemy Lines

Behind Enemy Lines

Registered User
Feb 19, 2003
16,913
18,723
Vancouver
Thanks. I think it comes down to how we were taught, and that I'm a fossil. heh. I'm old school in D coverage. Don't open up what you don't have to.

I'm Willie Mitchell Kiss approach. Stay in front of net, bang anything in sight. ;)

But if Ekholm stays back do you think its a GA? Ekholm created the opening by vacating, not Bouchard. If thats whats wanted I don't agree with the approach. Ekholm is best used as a rock around his net. jmo
Hey, I love and miss old school hard, physical net front defending. In part why I love Adam Larsson's game so much.

I'd view that play differently. If Bouchard had made his read, the Wild do not get a scoring chance and the puck is quite possibly turned over through the aggressive defending work of that pair.

But per my first point, the reality of this modern game is to defend away from your net beginning from the offensive zone 200 feet away, more aggressive neutral zone play, and ideally stepping up the own zone gap at the blue line to take away time and space to make offensive plays in homeplate, high danger areas of your zone.
 

TheNumber4

Registered User
Nov 11, 2011
44,192
55,121
Yeah...I get that sense too.
For me when I see this team consistently lock games down and not just cheat for offence all the time thats a sign that they are a legit contender.

More of a team game is what I am hoping to see and Knoblauch is already laying the foundation for that.
Just the ice time distribution and his insistence that bottom 6 players have a specific role (PK) have helped already IMO. When a team has the 2 best offensive weapons in the League if they can be used strategically instead of all out offence all the time that in and of itself makes this a much tougher team to play against.

Agreed. You just absolutely need that ability if you ever want to win a Cup. To lock down games when you are ahead. 4 line offence and possession too instead of relying on jus the big dogs. Roles for every member of the team to excell at.

This Oilers team really is closer to Cup winning templates from the past now, than it’s ever been.
 

guymez

The Seldom Seen Kid
Mar 3, 2004
34,602
15,174
Agreed. You just absolutely need that ability if you ever want to win a Cup. To lock down games when you are ahead. 4 line offence and possession too instead of relying on jus the big dogs. Roles for every member of the team to excell at.

This Oilers team really is closer to Cup winning templates from the past now, than it’s ever been.
Couldnt agree more. :thumbu:

Thats why I hope that Knoblauch splits up Darisaitl and McDavid 90% of the time. The occasional shift together is fine but Woody played them together way to much IMO.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: AM

Drivesaitl

Finding Hemingway
Oct 8, 2017
49,702
64,112
Islands in the stream.
Agreed. You just absolutely need that ability if you ever want to win a Cup. To lock down games when you are ahead. 4 line offence and possession too instead of relying on jus the big dogs. Roles for every member of the team to excell at.

This Oilers team really is closer to Cup winning templates from the past now, than it’s ever been.
Could not understand coaches use of McDrai on pk in regular season. In playoffs is another matter if you need a goal. In regular season it shouldn't happen. The goal of a coach, one of, should be to optimize every player on the team and make them all feel part of the team. One way to get some minutes specifically to adept bottomsix players is give them pk duty. If you don't do that they don't feel as much part of things. If you give the stars rotation its potentially a message you don't want sent that its about the stars and nothing else. Thats not a team message.
 

MoneyGuy

Wandering
Oct 19, 2009
7,016
1,409
Which skills are you talking about? The Oilers were constantly worked 5 on 5 but got bailed out by the best PP in history. It wasn’t a recipe for playoff success.
Didn’t he have the best regular-season record in team history; either that or number 2 behind Sather. He was a young coach improving.
 

MoneyGuy

Wandering
Oct 19, 2009
7,016
1,409
I’m not technical but you don’t get that record without skills. I measure success by the on-ice results and he’s led this team to regular-season and playoff success; the latter wasn’t all that we wanted, or course
 

TopShelfGloveSide

Registered User
Dec 10, 2018
19,931
28,883
I’m not technical but you don’t get that record without skills. I measure success by the on-ice results and he’s led this team to regular-season and playoff success; the latter wasn’t all that we wanted, or course
The team was terrible 5 on 5. The team never showed up on time. The team had glaring bad habits on defence. Everything was just masked by a historically good PP and McDrai putting up Gretzky numbers imo.

I think he’s a decent coach but not great and I think the Vegas series really exposed that. Still young and lots of room to grow though.
 

Soundwave

Registered User
Mar 1, 2007
74,165
30,357
Didn’t he have the best regular-season record in team history; either that or number 2 behind Sather. He was a young coach improving.

Team was regressing defensively under him.

Initial hire (2022):

Regular season 2022 w/Woodcroft: 2.78 goals against (good!)
2022 Playoffs: 3.68 GA (bad! but we won the BOA!)

Regular season 22-23: 3.17 GA (poor)
2023 Playoffs: 3.5 GA (bad)

Regular Season 23-24 w/Woodcroft: 3.9 GA (terrible)

Now in fairness to him some of this is the fault of dog shit goaltending, but still. He started his tenure here with 2.78 GA and by the time he was fired, the Oilers were floundering at 3.9 GA (Eakins era bad).
 

FlameChampion

Registered User
Jul 13, 2011
14,722
17,322
The team was terrible 5 on 5. The team never showed up on time. The team had glaring bad habits on defence. Everything was just masked by a historically good PP and McDrai putting up Gretzky numbers imo.

I think he’s a decent coach but not great and I think the Vegas series really exposed that. Still young and lots of room to grow though.
The thing that has always made me curious about Woodcroft was his trajectory.

I thought he did pretty well when he first came up. Felt like he distributed ice time and had roles for guys.

Felt like Bednar outclassed him and he kinda crumbled. To be fair to him, I don’t think the Oilers were winning that series regardless.

Then training camp happened (last year) and the Oilers were pretty dreadful. Luckily our PP allowed us to win games till we finally got rolling in the new year. But he had a pretty lousy playoffs and Cassidy made him look like a chump.

Skip forward to this year. Started again poorly but because of the McDavid injury, we couldn’t get on track due to our poor to average power play.

Long story short. I think Woodcroft had a tendency of over analyzing the playoff losses. I don’t think he was able to get his messages through early on. I think he was over complicated things where the players were spending more time thinking than actually playing. I think he thought he was some kind of genius. He was so arrogant and secretive about his systems. He wasn’t able or couldn’t answer simple questions.

I don’t really know how he got so far away to what he started as. Which is crazy because it was only 2 years. But by the end it felt like he was just propped up by a crazy good powerplay.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Oilhawks

K1984

Registered User
Feb 7, 2008
15,530
17,336
The thing that has always made me curious about Woodcroft was his trajectory.

I thought he did pretty well when he first came up. Felt like he distributed ice time and had roles for guys.

Felt like Bednar outclassed him and he kinda crumbled. To be fair to him, I don’t think the Oilers were winning that series regardless.

Then training camp happened (last year) and the Oilers were pretty dreadful. Luckily our PP allowed us to win games till we finally got rolling in the new year. But he had a pretty lousy playoffs and Cassidy made him look like a chump.

Skip forward to this year. Started again poorly but because of the McDavid injury, we couldn’t get on track due to our poor to average power play.

Long story short. I think Woodcroft had a tendency of over analyzing the playoff losses. I don’t think he was able to get his messages through early on. I think he was over complicated things where the players were spending more time thinking than actually playing. I think he thought he was some kind of genius. He was so arrogant and secretive about his systems. He wasn’t able or couldn’t answer simple questions.

I don’t really know how he got so far away to what he started as. Which is crazy because it was only 2 years. But by the end it felt like he was just propped up by a crazy good powerplay.

This is a pretty good analysis I think. Almost everything he did slowly got worse, not better. When you go down the list everything started ok, then started to slip as you said.

Lineup distribution and personnel decisions - started balanced; didn't move McDrai together until injury forced it; all 4 lines had a role - fast forward and it's McDrai together as a default, a random patchwork 2nd line that changes daily, and two bottom 6 lines that play like shit, also change daily and have no role.

Penalty Kill - started with Tippett's box and a consistent, defined group of personnel - fast forward and he switches to a hybrid diamond for pretty much no reason and decided to run almost every player in the roster through the PK. Results cratered and no changes seemed to be on the horizon.

Break out/in - started with everyone playing more connected. Forwards coming back deeper to break out as a unit, controlled break ins with support up ice - fast forward and forwards are blowing the zone, d men are looking to hit stretch passes that aren't there, break ins die at their blue line and the team is too spread out creating seams for teams to abuse us on all over the ice

Overall Team Management - this one may have always been poor because he didn't have a camp in his first season. Last year's camp sucked, this year's camp sucked and surprise, surprise both starts of the season sucked. As you touched on, this year's start isn't actually a whole lot different from last year's on the whole, we just didn't have the luxury of McDavid and Drai keeping everything afloat and a 40%+ PP.

If the 8-1 score didn't make it obvious enough, I knew we were in deep trouble after the first game of the year. No team, good or bad ever no shows on opening night. Some teams might get their ass kicked because they aren't good or are overmatched, but nobody lays an egg. Just doesn't happen. To no show to that degree is a pretty clear indicator the group isn't ready, and if you're not ready to start the year it quickly becomes an uphill battle to catch up. It's also no coincidence that the starts to games have instantaneously gone from a big problem to a big advantage pretty much the moment he was gone.

Woodcroft had some sort of problem getting this team ready for, well, anything really. Starts of games? Sucked. Starts to seasons? Sucked. Starts to playoff series? Sucked. Play after time off? Sucked. This is what did him in above all.
 

rboomercat90

Registered User
Mar 24, 2013
15,718
10,819
Edmonton
The day Woodcroft got fired the consensus around the league seemed to be that he didn’t deserve it, was a really good young coach and that he’d be at the top of the list to get hired as soon as jobs started opening up. Assuming these experts actually watch the games I can’t help but wonder if that perception has changed with how drastically different the oilers have looked consistently and immediately after he was fired. It’s hard to watch these guys and not conclude that Woodcroft was the biggest piece of what was going wrong here.
 

K1984

Registered User
Feb 7, 2008
15,530
17,336
The day Woodcroft got fired the consensus around the league seemed to be that he didn’t deserve it, was a really good young coach and that he’d be at the top of the list to get hired as soon as jobs started opening up. Assuming these experts actually watch the games I can’t help but wonder if that perception has changed with how drastically different the oilers have looked consistently and immediately after he was fired. It’s hard to watch these guys and not conclude that Woodcroft was the biggest piece of what was going wrong here.

I don't think this will land outside of Edmonton because the perception to people that don't watch the Oilers every night is that now we're getting better goaltending, McDavid is healthy, and the shooting % is up so it was all bound to happen anyways.

You really have to watch this team nightly over the past three years to understand why that probably wouldn't have been the case.
 

Whyme

Registered User
Nov 3, 2019
1,784
1,878
Just a quick hi from Finland. This is such a strange team, but when it gets going it's definitely among the best ones in the NHL. I'm staying out of these conversations nowadays but read the main threads daily. I just hope Holland or whoever pulls the strings nowadays is ready to make a big move or two at the trade deadline as this year there could really be a good chance to win the SC. Of course it's early especially after the slow start, but I do believe in this team. All the best to everyone, I'll step back outside after this message!
 

94 Oil Drops

Copa o Muerte
Sep 19, 2019
5,300
8,244
Alberta
Even though Coffey has made a lot of improvements to the way the defense plays, I really really really really hope that management doesn't think it's "good enough" to win a championship. It isn't. Still need another top 4 D if we want a chance at the cup.
 

Drivesaitl

Finding Hemingway
Oct 8, 2017
49,702
64,112
Islands in the stream.
The day Woodcroft got fired the consensus around the league seemed to be that he didn’t deserve it, was a really good young coach and that he’d be at the top of the list to get hired as soon as jobs started opening up. Assuming these experts actually watch the games I can’t help but wonder if that perception has changed with how drastically different the oilers have looked consistently and immediately after he was fired. It’s hard to watch these guys and not conclude that Woodcroft was the biggest piece of what was going wrong here.
I can't fathom how the 8-1 shellacking wasn't the message needed to wonder that the coach had lost the team. No team that feels its a team comes out with a performance like that. I said all along Woody lost the club either in the playoffs or in another lame duck preseason.

The team then proceeded to go 2-9-1. They had to fire the coaching staff and we've since found out why Manson was not performing in the role. (not blaming him) just acknowledging his grieving.

I remember a lot of pundits, bloggers, even professed Oilers bloggers saying the coaching change had been the worst decision made yet in the history of the org. Saying the org had one upped its worst ever decisions. Those guns seem quiet now.
 
Last edited:

tiger_80

Registered User
Apr 11, 2007
10,341
3,609
Gifted offensive player but certainly not a tough or hard working defenseman. Even during the glory days the Oiler fans got on him with "dont-coff-up the puck"
He'll be a perfect mentor for Bouchard then.

Even though Coffey has made a lot of improvements to the way the defense plays, I really really really really hope that management doesn't think it's "good enough" to win a championship. It isn't. Still need another top 4 D if we want a chance at the cup.
Can Coffee still skate?
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad