Fourier
Registered User
Sorry, I should have given the reference. They are from Hockeyviz:
Confirmed with Link: Jay Woodcroft and Dave Manson fired - no more Woody during NNN - Kris Knoblauch hired, Coffey as assistant
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I didn't say it is a bad move... but it is obvious that the Oilers try to please McDavid... from Foegele, Brown, Jackson and now to Knoblauch....
heck even Nurse got that contract in part because he is close to McDavid... well that may be a reach....
but I am not sure whether all these moves are in the best interest for the Oilers... unless this is what it takes that McDavid will not walk in FA....
Ahhh.. thank youSorry, I should have given the reference. They are from Hockeyviz:
You see enough of these over the year and wonder if the tide will ever turn. In my estimation we have simply built a team full of players who can not score goals, even if they're capable of getting to the correct areas of the ice to do so. It is not out of the realm of possibility that we've drafted and signed non goal scoring forwards who looked good via these metrics, in hopes that with enough time the goals would come.Oilers vs Vegas in pictures:
For me the Oilers record is a matter of too many big mistakes rather than poor overall defense, not enough saves and a lack of finish.
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Well, they have not, and will not. It's not like we're talking about a team of Ovechkin's here just getting unlucky. This is years of people underperforming dramatically in relation to the 'chances' the metrics show they generate. At some point we must accept this is who we have. The strategy would be to get players who can put pucks in the net rather than get players who can direct pucks to the net.
I speak mostly about our bottom 6 by the way.
General consensus from oiler fans is that woody shouldn’t be fired?
You not paying attention lately?
Fourier
Registered User
Except the best measure of a team's ability to score goals is how many goals they score. If you look back over the last two years where the core of the offense has been similar they are second in total goals scored.
Now I agree that they have a limited number of shooters. But the offense is definitely underperforming. Some of thsi may well be an injury to McDavid. But odds are it improves. The question is will that be too little too late.
I agree completely that our top guys are not scoring at the rate that is expected of them. However, would you agree last year was an anomaly in terms of goal production by our secondary, tertiary guys?
Would enjoy seeing that chart for our bottom 6 players only as well.
Just getting a chance to read through the thread now.
It's funny that so many here crapped on Woody endlessly starting with last years' playoffs and now all the sentiment that he didn't deserve this. Odd
I've always been of the mindset that this isn't Woody's fault but it seemed pretty clear to me that the top players in particular were tuning him out as they tend to do after a year or two with their previous coaches. I don't think it's a coincidence that we saw a much higher effort level and attention to detail from the core guys in the Seattle game almost as if they knew that the job to get Woody fired was accomplished.
It's funny that so many here crapped on Woody endlessly starting with last years' playoffs and now all the sentiment that he didn't deserve this. Odd
I've always been of the mindset that this isn't Woody's fault but it seemed pretty clear to me that the top players in particular were tuning him out as they tend to do after a year or two with their previous coaches. I don't think it's a coincidence that we saw a much higher effort level and attention to detail from the core guys in the Seattle game almost as if they knew that the job to get Woody fired was accomplished.
10?
Outside of a few months in 2006, they haven't had a top pairing D and goalie for over 30 years. I guess one can argue '16-'17 as well but that went to shit pretty quickly.
KeithIsActuallyBad
SPEEN!
Just like CFP covered up a lot of problems (Roloson did his part too) so too do McDavid and Draisatl.
Fourier
Registered User
It's hard to say what is an anomaly with the secondary and tertiary guys. Nuge is very unlikely to score nearly as many as he did last year but Kane is also very likely to score more than he did last year. 53 goals between the two is not a big stretch by their normal standards.
Guys like Foegele, Ryan and McLeod were not that much more productive last year than in the year before. They scored 31 goals combined in 2021-22 and 37 last year. Kostin's 11 goals is not so easy to replace, but in the end the big difference so far is McDavid and Leon. Is this a short term slump or is it going to last. Both guys are capable of going on insane runs.
IcyData has heat maps for individual players. For example you can find Foegele's data here:
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I guess it goes to show how poorly this club is structured if the difference between us being in the basement or competing for the division hinges on two players going supernova. A damn shame it has ended up like this. Every club has to make concession in how they build, and it does seem that relying on an extreme high end to carry versus building a balanced group that acclimates better to players going through funks is risky. Although we didn't have much choice given we drafted both superstars.
It sounds crazy to even contemplate what the team would look like without one of McDavid or Draisaitl, but at this point I'm willing to entertain it.
Yep, this is indefensible.
McDavid's old agent - Check
McDavid's old linemate - Check
McDavid's old coach - Check
McDavid is obviously a great player, we've all been very lucky to watch this amazing talent play for our favorite team for almost a decade now, but I'm getting sick and tired of watching the Edmonton McDavids. It's been obvious from what we see on the ice to what we're seeing now off the ice in the last year or so that this organization is shamelessly catering to McDavid's every need.
I feel like this is being run like an NBA team not an NHL team and it's a really ugly look.
I haven't even touched on the OBC hire in Coffey and the rumors that he's now running things.
This is all Katz's fault for enabling this. Just a really hard organization to root for.
This will all go away if they miraculously win a Cup but, lets be honest, that's just not happening maybe never again in our lifetimes as long as ownership remains as is and certainly not under his current regime.
KCC
Registered User
- Aug 15, 2007
- 19,449
- 10,735
10 coaches in 10 years. Nothing has changed with management. every gm comes in and never fixes the defence, goaltending and depth scoring, fires the coach instead of taking the blame rinse repeat.
Not every coach has obviously been good but woodcroft was a great coach. Yes he is partially to blame for the slow start but we all know the majority falls on Holland. And this new guy might help short term but isn’t going to be a long term success until the team gets a gm who can finally fix the weaknesses. and yes there’s a lot of them. The more things change, the more things stay the same.
Not every coach has obviously been good but woodcroft was a great coach. Yes he is partially to blame for the slow start but we all know the majority falls on Holland. And this new guy might help short term but isn’t going to be a long term success until the team gets a gm who can finally fix the weaknesses. and yes there’s a lot of them. The more things change, the more things stay the same.
Fourier
Registered User
I think it is more complicated than simply McDavid/Draisaitl.
Its been a combination of far fewer than expected goals for and far more than expected GA. Now it's not evene close to an exact science but the Hockeyviz data has them with 34.3% more goals against than you would expect vs league average equivalent shots and 23.1% fewer goals than expected vs league average. The defensive numbers are a combination of big mistakes and goaltending. The offensive numbers are even more challenging to explain since the Oilers tend to actually outscore their expected totals.
The construction of the team is certainly a factor. Some of this is bad luck. Losing Klefbom really hurt and I'd say Larsson's decision to leave was also a big negative. But there is no doubt that there have been real errors made in building the team.
KeithIsActuallyBad
SPEEN!
InTheBox
Registered User
- Feb 7, 2021
- 296
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Why didn't Knoblauch bring Steve Smith with him? Coffey is a legend, but Smith is a LEGEND. We need more of our guys to play like him, not Coffey
Drivesaitl
Finding Hemingway
The reason either McD or Drai go supernova is themselves. What we've seen in their career is a pretty natural progression that occurs as the players hits prime.
The other major factor is we finally had enough quality players to stick on a PP. I would attribute improvement on that unit also to Gulutzan, who is still here.
What you could focus on is Nuge. He's the one player that had a major bump. Argument could be made that Woody helped improve Nuges play.
Drivesaitl
Finding Hemingway
The Oilers fans of the day were jerks and got on any player. So much so that Grant Fuhr famously gave the home jeering fans the finger. Sather had to help several of the players deal with the inordinate and critical demands of the fans. He also had to speak to the media often to lay off his players.
Coffey was the hardest working player on the ice, covered the most miles, could do anything, and was tough enough.
Never heard the bolded and its silly anyway because in a risk/reward analysis Coffey was making great decisions out there. But when you produce to the degree he did theres going to be the occasional plays that go the other way.
You should be at least awarded an Ass't Coach job!
Ritchie Valens
Registered User
- Sep 24, 2007
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I just watched about 15 minutes of the presser. I get bored quickly of the same answers being rephrased-lol. If the defense still sucks under Coffey, he already gave himself an out by saying he didn't want to coach but said "ok, I'll do it to help" because he was voluntold by his boss.
I do wonder though if there was a tug-o-war going on between Coffey & Manson. The way those answers sounded, Coffey talks to the d-men alot to begin with.
With Knoblauch, I thought he spoke fine. Of course he's going to be nervous AF, it's his first presser as an NHL coach in a hockey-mad environment. He knows what he's getting into especially with the pressure put on him.
Once again though, and time will tell if this is the right hire, but this is coach #4 where no formal interview process was held. They had their sights set on one person and hired him.
McLellan, Tippett, Woodcroft, now Knobby.
I do wonder though if there was a tug-o-war going on between Coffey & Manson. The way those answers sounded, Coffey talks to the d-men alot to begin with.
With Knoblauch, I thought he spoke fine. Of course he's going to be nervous AF, it's his first presser as an NHL coach in a hockey-mad environment. He knows what he's getting into especially with the pressure put on him.
Once again though, and time will tell if this is the right hire, but this is coach #4 where no formal interview process was held. They had their sights set on one person and hired him.
McLellan, Tippett, Woodcroft, now Knobby.
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No the bolded was true. Mostly in his inaugural years. But like anyone he matured. Of course he wasn't anything near the stay at home shut down defenceman type, but he played the position to his strengths. And incredibly so. Pretty hard to argue that he couldn't play defense when he had the puck all the time. Also as you say - being the most beautiful skater in the game - he got back fast when mistakes were made.
I'm reserving judgement on this coaching gig as I don't like the optics of him / Katz.
But...
I think he could actually be a tremendous asset to Darnell Nurse. If Nurse can be molded into how Coffey played, we'd have a true #1A
TheNumber4
Registered User
- Nov 11, 2011
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Looks like it. There’s a lot of support for Woody and lots that say he shouldn’t have been fired. Me included.
Just Twitter and Reddit along with here to get an idea. Is that not possible?
Ritchie Valens
Registered User
- Sep 24, 2007
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- 43,398
Spun by the Rangers board to see what their take was...some disappointed to see him go as Hartford was off to a good start, some even saying he'll turn the Oilers around. McTony asked for some thoughts on him and only one responded with a lengthy post but did say "he did a decent job but nothing special" at the start of his post but then ended it by saying he was mediocre, so I'm not sure which one it is. Decent or mediocre. 
