Confirmed with Link: Jay Woodcroft and Dave Manson fired - no more Woody during NNN - Kris Knoblauch hired, Coffey as assistant

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That is an answer a diplomat would be proud of. ;)

I think it is a concern because there is no way to know if Coffey is staying in his lane. How can Katz resist getting information (about how the team is being run and how the players are responding to management) directly from his trusted friend and advisor? Especially with the chaotic train wreck that this team has been in past years under Katz.
Its a lot to ask that everyone just believe that Coffey wont use his direct conduit to Katz.

Referring to this as the path less traveled is being very kind. :nod:
The simple fact of Coffey being on the bench at all while also being employed higher up in the organization means he’s already well outside his lane.

This is just as bad as MacT deciding he needed to hold Todd Nelson’s hand and be on the bench before letting Nelson fully take over.
 
One of the media podcast guys with an old Coffey story about how he was brought into Arizona when Gretz was coaching to help with the powerplay, and he showed a video of the 80s Oilers and told them to do that

Not a flattering story to say the least :laugh:
Well...I have no doubt that Knoblach will welcome any high level insight that Coffey might bring.

He has to,,,he has no choice because the owner hired Coffey...not him.

With all due respect to Behindenemylines...based on the optics alone...this is a ridiculous hire.
 
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Paul Coffey is going to coach defense? That’s like hiring Gretzky as a boxing coach. Completely bizzaro world. I watched Coffey play a lot, he was terrible at defense.
Gifted offensive player but certainly not a tough or hard working defenseman. Even during the glory days the Oiler fans got on him with "dont-coff-up the puck"
 
Jackson in the presser looks like he's hasn't slept since the season started.

The simple fact of Coffey being on the bench at all while also being employed higher up in the organization means he’s already well outside his lane.

This is just as bad as MacT deciding he needed to hold Todd Nelson’s hand and be on the bench before letting Nelson fully take over.

Yeah, think the reason is along those lines as well. Coffey is there to give Katz insight of what's happening in the room. This season has been a disaster and no one seems to know why. Coffey has replaced Lowe as Katz's go-to guy for answers.
 
Gifted offensive player but certainly not a tough or hard working defenseman. Even during the glory days the Oiler fans got on him with "dont-coff-up the puck"
Some of the worst coaches are the super talented players. Hard for guys where everything came so natural to them to understand the struggle the peanut brains go through to make decisions out on the ice :) So many good coaches are the bubble guys that had to grind and grind in every zone and figure out how to be noticed and have any impact on games.

Oh well, good luck to Coffey in his first ever pro in-game coaching experience/spying for Katz.
 
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Jackson got his man in Knoblauch.
I guess the bottom line for me is that the optics around the Coffey hire is worthy of extreme skepticism.
Not sure how you feel I'm a keen advocate of this. I'm close to your opinion, "In any event (because i am a fan) I am hoping that this works out but I just dont like the optics around any of this."

The new staff has a head coach with no NHL experience; a solid experienced guy in GG; and Mark Stuart with two college years as an assistant coach and one pro year primarily as their eye in the sky. Given all considerations, I'm open minded to Coffey for the niche experience intangibles I've stated might value a fragile team under diamond pressure. But have said I can appreciate others who feel this organization hasn't earned the benefit of their doubt.

I'd like to hear your alternative options though. It's November 12 and teams aren't going to let their staff go for lateral movements to other organizations. Highly unlikely Knoblauch wants to reach into an AHL assistant coach pool of people he doesn't know. Further to a point I've repeated, who leaves their job for an interim situation where new coach likely builds up his staff? Oil opt to roll the dice on an internal guy who the players are familiar with.


Pretty high level but a bit of a peek into the day-to-day of assistant coaching:
 
We might need to dust this off--Paul Coffey has me concerned--CALL HUDDY


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Gifted offensive player but certainly not a tough or hard working defenseman. Even during the glory days the Oiler fans got on him with "dont-coff-up the puck"
Actually I would disagree that Coffey was soft, He actually played with a bit if bite in his own end. He was also one of the best defensemen I have ever seen at getting the puck moving in the right direction while he was an Oiler. What he was was a risk taker. But his skating would allow him to often negate his mistakes.
 
Todays damned if you do and damned if you dont

Some of the same people on line, both fans and reporters who we saying the oilers needed to do a change behind the bench are not saying they rushed things
The coach bump is real.

Just look at the lowly Canucks and how bringing in Bruce changed that team, pretty much 2 wins to one loss and the next year Tocchet shows up with the same results. Neither coach had much time to institute a new system. This happened with the Canucks, a team that has half the wins of the Oilers. They didn't change anything else just the coach.
 
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Disagree, Woodcroft and Manson came in as a package deal. They were in synch with coaching philosophy. It's just the same as Tippett and Playfair leaving the building together as well. The fundamental issue is goal prevention and defending.

We don't know if Coffey will airlift into the defense coach role or if Knoblauch tweaks his staff's roles and responsibilities. Fyi, a coaching impact study I posted stated an NHL coach's ability to impact is greatest for goal prevention versus goal creation.

The optics are shitty. However we'll see how things transpire under Knoblauch's direction.
I saw you post that yesterday and found it interesting. Vividly remember Woodcroft, Tippett, and other coaches making a mention of how while they can try and teach anyone how to play defence, they prefer to let their offensive creativity shine through all on its own. No one offensive system strategy works due to the hundreds of variables on each puck possession I guess. Coupled with having McDavid and Draisaitl, it makes sense. I don't believe any NHL coach employs any sort of rigid offensive structure or idea past things like how you want to approach a zone entry for success or what to do with puck possession out of the corner. Sustained offensive zone time may benefit significantly from a strategy, but off the rush it would be impossible past generalities.

The coach having 20% impact on games sounds about right really. At the end of the day there are 20 men going out on the ice who need to get it done.

In your previous post you mention the disjointed nature of our rebuilds and I agree completely. Only in Oil country does everything seem horribly out of whack. We're removing a coach, an assistant, and replacing them with other people who are fresh or have been deeply embedded in the organization already, maintaining some of the other coaching staff, hiring fresh people for roles above our ancient GM. It's like everything is done in a roundabout way that makes no sense at all, I can feel the frustration.

Something that bothered me at the press conference was Jackson stone cold lying to the reporter and everyone watching when he corrected Kenny. You hold an interview with a lot of these high end coaches we're talking about in here and they'll give it to you straight. No bullshit on what went wrong or what they did or tried to do and why it succeeded or failed. Kenny is from that straight shooter, hockey guy type style of man even though I do think he is going senile and is clearly not fit to be running an NHL club.

It admittedly struck a nerve seeing the man in charge of what changes are made here straight up lying to everybody without hesitation. The personality of a hockey agent who needs to weigh out when it's appropriate to lie, deceive, bluff his way into getting his clients the most amount of money possible. It's comical knowing that Jeff Jackson, sitting beside Holland, has multiple times flipped Kenny upside down over the years to take all the change out of his pockets with his clients, and now works above him. Kenny is like a beaten, onset of dementia dog. Very sad to see.

Yea, it would be one thing for your GM or agent to be lying to the other teams he is negotiating with to try and get us a player we need. Him doing that at a coach introduction press conference really rubbed me the wrong way. What else is this guy blatantly lying about in his day to day, lying to his own people? The fans? That's something I haven't noticed before from any of our past GM's or Hockey Ops people.
 
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Woody was a .250 coach when fired. I think thats the point. The team was clearly sinking with him as coach. This is how pro sports works. Its what are you doing now. I've already dispelled this anyway. Woodys record was due to coachign the back end of seasons twice when McDrai superheat. In either season BEFORE NYE Woody record is cumulative sub .500
You keep focusing on these random small samples. Whether it's this or Campbell you're always taking the smallest possible sample size.

You don't think Woodcroft had at least something to do with McDavid going supernova? Because Dave Tippett sure never unlocked that level of play for him.
 
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Woody is a great guy, but his coaching is sub par (regardless of his record)
no accountability, poor training camps and slow starts sunk him

wish him the best
Poor training camps is legitimate.

I personally don't see slow starts as a negative like Todd Nelson was the same slow starts, but gradual improvement during the season and then you peak at the right time; I've seen coaches who just push and push for the best out of their guys and flame out down the stretch or in the playoffs cause they burned too much gas getting there and pushed all the players buttons to illicit that top performance, until players stop responding to those buttons being pressed. For a team that believes they are strong enough to survive a slow start and gradual build up, peaking at the right time is the way to go IMO, also if you are executing everything to the best of your ability straight out the gate it gives teams time to adjust and coach there way to beating your best gameplan (I think BOS had this issue last season).

Obviously this season was more than a typical slow start, more of a stall at the starting gate to a severe enough extent to jeopardize our ability to make the playoffs, which we can't have.

With respect to accountability and by that most people mean benching players for poor performances, I think a lot of fans are quite frankly brain dead in how they perceive that, so it should never be as simple as you played bad this game so you are getting benched, it should be done when you think the act of benching is going to illicit the proper positive response afterwards.

So first off the coaching staff did bench or reduce minutes for players, both Kane and Bouchard received this treatment and both played better afterwards. Who else deserved a benching and didn't get one?

The injured or recently recovered guys trying to get their game/timing back? Ekholm? McDavid? Kulak? McLeod? Brown?

The hard working guys, who even if they aren't playing their best never cheat you on effort? Like D. Ryan or Desharnais?

Draisaitl who even when he struggles is still far better than any replacement level forward we could ice and who has shown the ability to brute force his way through rough patches before?

Perhaps Darnell Nurse who I predicted would struggle to adjust early cause zone style defense isn't is his forte, he thrives more in man to man coverage and as a leader on the team I don't think he'd take the benching well and I'm doubtful it would help adjust to the new system any quicker.

I certainly don't think Woodcroft resume is long enough to say whether or not he has it in him to be a great coach or a Stanley Cup winning coach, but I think he showed enough and we improved enough under him to atleast acknowledge him as a good coach.
 
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Give the first 10+ minutes of Rishaug’s pod a listen. His take on Paul Coffey sitting in the coach’s group is bang on.

It’s clear that the management group aren’t totally sold that Kris K is capable of taking this role and making it his. They have put a weird dynamic in play for the players and other coaches with having the special advisor to the OWNER hanging around the room. First time Coffey and KK disagree on something significant, Knoblauch will lose even if he temporarily “wins”.

 
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What possible f***ing reason did they have to do this

I hate this organization

This would be the negotiation from Kris's end. I'm not jumping into something for part of a year when I could be let go right away. Just like trading from a place of weakness....this was the coaching version....still not sure it needed to be done though...
 
Venturing out of HF to see the general consensus on this decision. I thinks genral consensus from Oilers fans is that this was a dumb move and Woody didn’t deserve the firing.

When Oilers fan universally agree on something they are probably right. And management will look dumb in short order.
Nice. You talked to all the fans or just a specific few.
 

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