Jason Botterill Discussion Part 5

[CrazyPsycho]

Could you let Ralph assume the GM role as well as coach until the end of the season?

Good lord how long do you want to be bad for?

I want to start getting rid of the garbage players, and don't want Botts or a guy who just came back into the league doing these moves

 

[flashsabre]

I agree with Firing Botts now.

Bring in Gillis as President, Rick Dudley as GM, Hunter head of scouting, Meghan Chayka, head of analytics.

GO out and hire the best in the business.

They won’t hire Gillis because his personality is like Murray’s. Hunter won’t leave London unless he is GM. I like the names you mentioned but a more likely reality is Dudley as President and Hunter as GM but I doubt Pegula would do either.

 

[Jame]

And actually I dislike the hockey ops position even more because it adds another layer of muk to sift through when things go south.

If the sabres hire a lousy hockey czar its going to be that much more waiting than it already has been.

Year 1: The VP screws up and hires a bad GM, bad GM gets a mediocre coach. Not awful, just not good
Year 2: Mediocre coach gets 2nd chance
Year 3:GM fires coach, and hires another bad one because the GM is still bad
Year 4:GM has made 2 bad coaching hires and gets fired. Bad VP hires new GM who is also bad because VP is bad, and hires another bad coach.

This lasts until the VP and the 2nd GM get fired and it's back to square 1.


Rinse/repeat-2028 draft looking deep at least

It's not that we keep hiring "bad" GMs per say, it's that we never f***ing ever hire one with any real experience running an organization. We just keep hiring guys who might be good at if they get a shot. Seriously, who is the last GM this organization has had that has RUN an organization before? Is it f***ing Punch? I bet it's Punch... that's how stupid this franchise is.

 

[OkimLom]

It's not that we keep hiring "bad" GMs per say, it's that we never ****ing ever hire one with any real experience running an organization. We just keep hiring guys who might be good at if they get a shot. Seriously, who is the last GM this organization has had that has RUN an organization before? Is it ****ing Punch? I bet it's Punch... that's how stupid this franchise is.

I believe Bowman came the closest, but was passed over in Montreal I believe.

I think we were Muckler's first team as he was hired as the head coach and later named GM.

Definitely not Darcy, Murray, Botterill.

I don't know enough of Anderson to give a firm answer on his history.

 

[Jame]

I believe Bowman came the closest, but was passed over in Montreal I believe.

I think we were Muckler's first team as he was hired as the head coach and later named GM.

Definitely not Darcy, Murray, Botterill.

I don't know enough of Anderson to give a firm answer on his history.

I want a guy with experience. I don't care if his record is less than stellar. Just give me a guy with years of experience running an NHL franchise without Mike Milbury level blemishes on his record

.... unless Chris Drury wants to come back.... that's my one exception lol

And with minimal wikipedia scouring, I say Punch Imlach was the last GM we had, who had prior first hand GM experience.

F this stupid franchise...

 

[CrazyPsycho]

. We just keep hiring guys who might be good at if they get a shot.

Its worked amazingly well for the Bills, they just need to find an experienced guy who can find the proper people. I highly suspect our analytics department is also terrible.

 

[Jame]

Its worked amazingly well for the Bills, they just need to find an experienced guy who can find the proper people. I highly suspect our analytics department is also terrible.

I just don't think they are the same at all... that is running an NHL vs NFL team.

Also, not sure I'd call passing on Mahomes and then taking Josh Allen over Lamar Jackson "working out amazingly".

 

[Chainshot]

Is Tulsky really good or he just made some comment on Twitter that you enjoyed?

I was talking about him well before the twitter comment.

 

[Chainshot]

I believe Bowman came the closest, but was passed over in Montreal I believe.

I think we were Muckler's first team as he was hired as the head coach and later named GM.

Definitely not Darcy, Murray, Botterill.

I don't know enough of Anderson to give a firm answer on his history.

Muckler was brought in as a special advisor and then got both gigs.

 

[OkimLom]

I want a guy with experience. I don't care if his record is less than stellar. Just give me a guy with years of experience running an NHL franchise without Mike Milbury level blemishes on his record

.... unless Chris Drury wants to come back.... that's my one exception lol

And with minimal wikipedia scouring, I say Punch Imlach was the last GM we had, who had prior first hand GM experience.

F this stupid franchise...

I agree wholeheartedly.

I would love to pick some organizations' personnel guys that have been with franchises with long sustained years of consistent top notch seasons. Give me guys from the Boston organization, give me guys that are from St Louis. From San Jose as well. Franchises that have shown an ability to have a consistent "model" of a player that has sustained for years.

We need stability, we need standards from what we want in our players when scouting (whether pro or amateur). I want to be an organization that has a high bar of fitness to earn a roster spot and STICK with it. I want to be a team that when a guy goes down, you have a guy who plays the exact same way at a consistent level. When, say Reinhart goes down, you don't need to blowup the makeup of your lines because you only have a few players that can play with Skinner and that throws off the chemistry for the rest of the team. Our organization needs standards in the worst way.

I want to be a team that has some damn self-respect.

 

[OkimLom]

Muckler was brought in as a special advisor and then got both gigs.

thanks for clearing it up. I was young when he was hired.

 

[Jame]

I agree wholeheartedly.

I would love to pick some organizations' personnel guys that have been with franchises with long sustained years of consistent top notch seasons. Give me guys from the Boston organization, give me guys that are from St Louis. From San Jose as well. Franchises that have shown an ability to have a consistent "model" of a player that has sustained for years.

What? No... that's literally how we got Botts

 

[brian_griffin]

I want a GM who crosses the door threshold, realizes he has stepped in dog crap and knows to stop walking through the house, clean his shoes, and clean up the mess. Instead, Botterill goes back outside, does burpees in the piles, then returns inside to sit on the furniture while folding baskets of clean laundry. Everything he touches is tainted.

 

[sabremike]

My fear in that? It'll be Shero. Ex-Penguins, gotta catch 'em all!

Well it could end up a lot worse: I believe Ed Johnston is still alive.

 

[Chainshot]

What? No... that's literally how we got Botts

Botts was cap and dev (farm) for the Pens, he was never touted as a player personnel guy/talent evaluator. They got an office manager.

 

[BananaSquad]

Krueger up to the front office. Pegula drives down to the island , tells Luo whats it gonna take to get you to Buffalo. They then call Toronto and tell them they are hiring Babcock as their new head coach.

 

[OkimLom]

What? No... that's literally how we got Botts

im not just talking about GM as I want someone with experience, but for filling other roles in the organization, I want as many guys that have come from successful teams.

 

[Jame]

im not just talking about GM as I want someone with experience, but for filling other roles in the organization, I want as many guys that have come from successful teams.

my mistake

 

[itwasaforwardpass]

I'm listening to (delayed) impeachment trial at work.

Impeach Botterill!!! High Crimes and Misdemeanors!!!

Not that I particularly mind, but I made a post in this thread making an intended humorous analogy to the impeachment trial and it was removed without explanation.

 

[CrazyPsycho]

I just don't think they are the same at all... that is running an NHL vs NFL team.

Also, not sure I'd call passing on Mahomes and then taking Josh Allen over Lamar Jackson "working out amazingly".

Beane wasnt there yet when that happened. And yes, the NFL is way easier to clear up your garbage cap space.

Im mostly concerned at how terrible our scouting/player development is, and that falls on everyone

 

[5 Minute Major]

At least Botts is consistent.

His playing career mirrors his career as a GM.

 

[Buffaloed]

How come first time GM's can be successful with other organizations?
Randy Sexton was the GM of the Sens 1993-95 and Panthers 2009-10. He was director of amateur scouting for the Penguins. He's pretty much done everything. Odd that his name doesn't come up when there's a GM opening. Maybe it was that Diagle thing. I get the impression he's happy where he is, behind the scenes, doing work he enjoys.
Randy Sexton - Wikipedia

The Pegulas are like Ralph Wilson. They want coaches and gm's who will hold their hands and tell them all about hockey/football. They got incredibly lucky with Beane and McDermott in that they found people who were competent that were willing to explain things to them. They may even enjoy it. The same is true of Wilson and Marv Levy. The relationship the coach and gm have with ownership is just as important as competency. Hiring a great gm who couldn't be bothered to explain analytics to Terry isn't going to end well. The Pegulas got the relationship part right with Botterill and Krueger, but at least one of them isn't competent. It's not easy, maybe not even possible, to find established professionals, willing to spend time with high maintenance owners. Imagine John Tortorella's reaction if Kim Pegula called him and wanted to know why composite sticks cost so much? Ralph Krueger would probably be delighted to discuss stick technology.

 

[Buffaloed]

I want a GM who crosses the door threshold, realizes he has stepped in dog crap and knows to stop walking through the house, clean his shoes, and clean up the mess. Instead, Botterill goes back outside, does burpees in the piles, then returns inside to sit on the furniture while folding baskets of clean laundry. Everything he touches is tainted.

Mike Milbury would take off his crap covered shoes and beat people with them.

 

[brian_griffin]

Can Botterill have the humility - at least once in his tenure - to admit to the fans he made a mistake?

 

[Buffaloed]

Can Botterill have the humility - at least once in his tenure - to admit to the fans he made a mistake?

I'm waiting for a disgruntled fan to plant bugs and expose what's really going on.