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Jason Botterill Discussion Part 5

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Smiling Ivan said:
It's been a country club culture ever since the Pegulas arrived. That totally irrational $10 million locker room set the tone.
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The idea that posh player facilities lead to poor results is pretty easily to disprove. The Pegula's did the same thing with the bills (upgraded a ton of amenities and fieldhouse) and the results have been the opposite.

It's about the people they've hired. They have two people in the Bills front office they trust (McDermott and Beane) and have gotten results. They don't have that in the Sabres org and to some extent, that is wholly on them.
 
If I have to hear one more national person say Botterill is trying but trades like he wants happen in the offseason I’m going to lose it.

He’s had two offseason to address 2C. So shut the hell up and admit he’s incapable of doing the job.
 
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Boy, if Botts gets Ehlers for Risto, wonder where people would land with regard to him holding onto all these D. Desperate teams that have to make the playoffs. Winnepeg is a hot mess, injuries, Big Buff not coming back. I also watched a TNS clip where they were talking about having to give up Montour for a forward and that Botterill is on the hot seat to do something.
 
kummelweck said:
Boy, if Botts gets Ehlers for Risto, wonder where people would land with regard to him holding onto all these D. Desperate teams that have to make the playoffs. Winnepeg is a hot mess, injuries, Big Buff not coming back. I also watched a TNS clip where they were talking about having to give up Montour for a forward and that Botterill is on the hot seat to do something.
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Botterill will mess it up.
 
Smiling Ivan said:
I remember something Muckler said about the Mogilny for Peca trade, a trade that wasn't popular at the time but Mogilny demanded out...that Peca was a player who hustles and has heart and the team was put together as a rough team that puts forth a lot of effort and that's something the blue collar fans of Buffalo could relate to. I haven't heard a GM say that since. Seems like matching the personality of the team with the personality of Buffalo fans was a winning strategy once upon a time, a philosophy that the Buffalo fans relished. But over time, it was scrapped for the usual scoring stars who when faced with the toughest competition, would fold up the tent.

Of course if it wasn't for Meehan trading for Hasek (and acquiring Mogilny) that '99 team wouldn't have went too far.
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I was thinking last night this current squad needs a Jim schoenfeld type badly. (Player)
 
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kummelweck said:
Boy, if Botts gets Ehlers for Risto, wonder where people would land with regard to him holding onto all these D. Desperate teams that have to make the playoffs. Winnepeg is a hot mess, injuries, Big Buff not coming back. I also watched a TNS clip where they were talking about having to give up Montour for a forward and that Botterill is on the hot seat to do something.
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I would think a Copp and a 2nd for Montour deal could be worked out.

Then use that 2nd to get another quality bottom 6 forward, preferably a younger guy squeezed out by abundance. Perhaps Johnsson or Kapanen in Toronto. Get over the division rivalry, both teams would have made 3 deals by now if they were in separate conferences.
 
kummelweck said:
Boy, if Botts gets Ehlers for Risto, wonder where people would land with regard to him holding onto all these D. Desperate teams that have to make the playoffs. Winnepeg is a hot mess, injuries, Big Buff not coming back. I also watched a TNS clip where they were talking about having to give up Montour for a forward and that Botterill is on the hot seat to do something.
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The whispers are that Ehlers was the offer over the summer, not that he's available now.
 
One thing we can agree on is that Botterill doesn't think the Sabres are actually good right? He doesn't believe they're close to winning either. At least that's my belief.
 
Sabre Dance said:
One thing we can agree on is that Botterill doesn't think the Sabres are actually good right? He doesn't believe they're close to winning either. At least that's my belief.
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It's a perfect storm of trades not contributing (Sheary, Vesey, Thompson), poor depth exposed due to injuries (grinders/goal-tending), high-end signing not producing (Skinner, Johansson), development stagnating (Mittelstadt), and a tight trade-market.

He really has control over most of that, so it's his mess. Whether or not the org feels they are making progress or are executing on a plan, is still unclear to me.
 
kummelweck said:
It's a perfect storm of trades not contributing (Sheary, Vesey, Thompson), poor depth exposed due to injuries (grinders/goal-tending), high-end signing not producing (Skinner, Johansson), development stagnating (Mittelstadt), and a tight trade-market.

He really has control over most of that, so it's his mess. Whether or not the org feels they are making progress or are executing on a plan, is still unclear to me.
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Are there any quotes on his time frame for competing? I know he's different from Murray in the way he speaks to the media. Botterill says what he's supposed to say most of the time. Murray told us he wasn't trying to win until after 2 years. I found a quote while searching old articles. He was talking about Reinhart being a part of the rebuild. This was last year. It's strange to hear him say rebuild, I don't think I saw that quote before.

It's possible he's convinced ownership that this is a long-term rebuild of the entire organization. Murray was on a 3 year plan, Botterill is acting like it's at least a 5 year plan. Maybe the plan was set up the franchise for post expansion draft in 2021. Maybe I'm reaching.
 
Sabre Dance said:
Are there any quotes on his time frame for competing? I know he's different from Murray in the way he speaks to the media. Botterill says what he's supposed to say most of the time. Murray told us he wasn't trying to win until after 2 years. I found a quote while searching old articles. He was talking about Reinhart being a part of the rebuild. This was last year. It's strange to hear him say rebuild, I don't think I saw that quote before.

It's possible he's convinced ownership that this is a long-term rebuild of the entire organization. Murray was on a 3 year plan, Botterill is acting like it's at least a 5 year plan. Maybe the plan was set up the franchise for post expansion draft in 2021. Maybe I'm reaching.
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let’s say that was the plan for these years to, he did a terrible, and I mean terrible job of doing that as he did next to nothing to build up the pipeline during these years which he should’ve been doing from the beginning. He draft 6 players in each draft, and it wasn’t even a matter of moving up in the draft to get better prospects. He hasn’t done any progressing actions to set us up for the post expansion draft, TIME has been the biggest impact on the roster.

What has he done to help Dahlin, Pilut, and Joker out in terms of mentoring? If you’re going to waste these years, what exactly was the purpose of his roster for all this time?
 
Sabre Dance said:
One thing we can agree on is that Botterill doesn't think the Sabres are actually good right? He doesn't believe they're close to winning either. At least that's my belief.
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The past few games may have changed the outlook but not too long ago there was belief within some members of the organization that they were close to being competitive
 
OkimLom said:
let’s say that was the plan for these years to, he did a terrible, and I mean terrible job of doing that as he did next to nothing to build up the pipeline during these years which he should’ve been doing from the beginning. He draft 6 players in each draft, and it wasn’t even a matter of moving up in the draft to get better prospects. He hasn’t done any progressing actions to set us up for the post expansion draft, TIME has been the biggest impact on the roster.

What has he done to help Dahlin, Pilut, and Joker out in terms of mentoring? If you’re going to waste these years, what exactly was the purpose of his roster for all this time?
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He's tried and failed to add quality veterans. He's loaded up with D to surround the young defensemen you mention.
 
On the one hand you want Botterill to do something. On the other hand you don't want him to do anything. It's like being chained to a pole while a time bomb ticks down and the only person around who can try to diffuse it is your grandmother with Parkinson's disease. Isn't there a law against this kind of torture?
 
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Smiling Ivan said:
It's been a country club culture ever since the Pegulas arrived. That totally irrational $10 million locker room set the tone.
Click to expand...

You know, I think about that locker room all the time. Giving these guys the fruits of success without having actually achieved anything is not the right way to go.

It's human nature to become soft and lazy when you are given the paycheck before the work has begun.
 
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This guy KILLED this team absolutely.

- traded ROR, Selke and Conn Smythe winner, for free.... OMG

- Skinner´s contract is like.... woooow. 8 more years, right? So forget on play-off hockey in Buffalo for at least, 8 years. Trust or not, this is the worst than Lucic situation...

- his draft picks are horrible. Except of top 10 picks (where is every prospect great in terms of prospects and it´s easy to draft Dahlin or so), he´s not able to find a value pick like f.e. (Fagemo, Hoglander, Kaliyev... )

- it´s clear that his draft picks are horrible, because he is not able to recognize good hockey player - his acquisitions are.. Frolik? hahah... Sobotka? Berglund? Johansson? Miller? Montour? Vesey? Hutton? - all wrong, something more something less

- rushing development of our most promised players at that time, Mittelstadt and Giraffe

He is a joke of general manager, with this big headed guy I don´t see a light at the end of the tunnel, game over.
 
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Royisgone said:
You know, I think about that locker room all the time. Giving these guys the fruits of success without having actually achieved anything is not the right way to go.

It's human nature to become soft and lazy when you are given the paycheck before the work has begun.
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with that mindset, that’s how you become running a Mickey Mouse club. It’s ridiculous to think in that way, especially for a sports team.
 
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I think about the O'Reilly debacle way more than I care to. It made absolutely no sense to trade that great of a player, in his prime for the entirety of his contract no less, for "quantity" and that's putting it nicely. I knew as soon as I saw the return in the deal that the Sabres got hosed and it was going to set the franchise back multiple years, unless Thompson immediately turned into a 60 point player(lol). I live in Edm and saw how trading Taylor Hall for Larsson set the Oilers back a few years and compare it to the O'Reilly trade, you can't trade elite talent for lesser parts and succeed.

It pains me to think what this team could've looked like if JB kept ROR and still traded for Skinner that summer. I think we would be a playoff team right now if they kept him.
 
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