Jason Botterill Discussion Part 5

[Ace]

The Bills got lucky with McDermott. McDermott brought with him a great young front office as well. But remember though Greg Roman was actually the coach that they really loved before going with Rex Ryan. So maybe they just have to go with their gut feeling more often. Do interviews and hire the best person for the job.

He got very lucky with McDermott. It likely took being bamboozled by Rex to make him seek out as opposite a person as possible and he lucked into someone who could command a real culture change and hire a bright young GM on the same page to fully streamline everything they do. I love so much of how they run that organization...how they carry themselves and present it as well. If they believed in offense the way they do in D I think they’d win a SuperBowl.

But hey...they’re so far ahead of where they were for decades in believing in what they’re doing I’ll take it.

Now compare that to this Sabres mess. You can not believing in anything. Anything.

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

Break down the Beaulieu deal and the impact of Sheary/Hunwick. He trades a third and a fourth, starts to get value from Beaulieu in season two but Hunwick and a struggling Scandella get ice time over him even though he played better than they, leading to Nathan asking to be treated at which point they wound up with a sixth round pick for a useful top six defenseman on a playoff team. I’ll say that again: his trade return with a sixth round draft pick for a player who played meaningful games not just in the top six but in the top four with the Winnipeg Jets. Do you think you could take that sixth round draft pick and find another general manager who would trade him a useful top six defenseman?

So that’s trading a third and fourth, getting a sixth back and also shelling his own cap situation in consecutive years while getting almost no production from a heavily offensively favored forward last season and almost no production from that forward this year. If he can recoup a third for Conor alone at this deadline I would be shocked. So again over the course of three summers he turned two draft picks into two lower draft picks and less Space with no tangible improvement to his roster. He could have signed AHL players for Sheary’s minutes and gotten similar production, not giving up that other pick and probably had Nate in his lineup to get a more robust return (like the third he used to acquire him).

I was never impressed by much of anything Beaulieu did while he was a Sabre. So trading him seemed to be a good move. Never was a fan of Hunwick but Sheary had a decent resume. We know better now but at the time it seemed a like reasonable deal.

I'm not defending Botterill. He's way beyond his grace period and the team is worse as a result of his mismanagement. He's gotta go now. Not later....

 

[KiwiGriff]

Break down the Beaulieu deal and the impact of Sheary/Hunwick. He trades a third and a fourth, starts to get value from Beaulieu in season two but Hunwick and a struggling Scandella get ice time over him even though he played better than they, leading to Nathan asking to be treated at which point they wound up with a sixth round pick for a useful top six defenseman on a playoff team. I’ll say that again: his trade return with a sixth round draft pick for a player who played meaningful games not just in the top six but in the top four with the Winnipeg Jets. Do you think you could take that sixth round draft pick and find another general manager who would trade him a useful top six defenseman?

So that’s trading a third and fourth, getting a sixth back and also shelling his own cap situation in consecutive years while getting almost no production from a heavily offensively favored forward last season and almost no production from that forward this year. If he can recoup a third for Conor alone at this deadline I would be shocked. So again over the course of three summers he turned two draft picks into two lower draft picks and less Space with no tangible improvement to his roster. He could have signed AHL players for Sheary’s minutes and gotten similar production, not giving up that other pick and probably had Nate in his lineup to get a more robust return (like the third he used to acquire him).

It’s like chess. A GM should be thinking more than one move ahead. “If I can trade picks for this player, do I get value within two seasons? Or I can I move them for a better player or better picks than I started with so I’m come out winning?”

I think JB just thinks about the one move “I want player x”. He pays too much for them, a year or two later he decides they aren’t worth it and shifts them for less than what he paid. His shortsighted trades are robbing this team of long term strength. Not to mention we a cash strapped because he can’t negotiate a reasonable contract.

 

[Chainshot]

It’s like chess. A GM should be thinking more than one move ahead. “If I can trade picks for this player, do I get value within two seasons? Or I can I move them for a better player or better picks than I started with so I’m come out winning?”

I think JB just thinks about the one move “I want player x”. He pays too much for them, a year or two later he decides they aren’t worth it and shifts them for less than what he paid. His shortsighted trades are robbing this team of long term strength. Not to mention we a cash strapped because he can’t negotiate a reasonable contract.

Just picture what he’s going to do this summer. Somebody who’s shown this lack of ability to identify and acquire good NHL players isn’t suddenly going to have a revelation that it’s 2020 and it’s time to implement his secret plan (which is not his secret tank that was implied by some of the people who still say that there’s some as yet manifested grand plan for 2020). He (and his near-term successor) is going to be short on draft picks because he’s going to use some to trade for bad players. He’s likely to make poor UFA signings based on his track record, and they’re probably going to be over what we consider market value because that’s how unrestricted free agency works. His remarkable drafting has left them short on skill forwards. On top of that, he has some old guard media getting in the face of one of his players that they can now grease the skids to ship out of town. Have you noticed the same people who don’t like Reinhart also enjoyed running O’Reilly off? They also tend to be the ones who are the most entrenched on Jason being a “great“ GM or at least that he deserves another season of this madness that he’s inflicted on the fans with his roster buffoonery. The lack of action, the lack of decisive improvement, and above all the lack of ability to identify and acquire good players is why he must go.

 

[Chainshot]

I was never impressed by much of anything Beaulieu did while he was a Sabre. So trading him seemed to be a good move. Never was a fan of Hunwick but Sheary had a decent resume. We know better now but at the time it seemed a like reasonable deal.

I'm not defending Botterill. He's way beyond his grace period and the team is worse as a result of his mismanagement. He's gotta go now. Not later....

Oh I get that everything he’s done seems like a reasonable deal. Depth scoring that might work with Jack? He’s tried three or four players all of which seems reasonable. Veteran defensive players? He’s tried half a dozen between waivers and free agency and trade. Yet all but one of those was a complete waste of time. Almost to a man everyone he has acquired has been Yet all but one of those was a complete waste of time. Almost to a man everyone he has acquired has been a poor acquisition. And here’s the thing, it’s not like these guys are just slumping: Almost all of them are performing in terms of shot metrics and production based on the minutes they play about where you would expect them to looking at their careers. He’s lousy at scouting. The guy who acquired them, almost all of them are performing in terms of shot metrics and production based on the minutes they play about where you would expect them to looking at their careers. The guy who recommended they acquire Vesey Should be unemployed. Same thing with whoever was looking at Sobotka. Holy f*** I think I could get a couple of my friends and a few posters from this board together and do a better job scouting NHL talent then people are f***ing paid to scout for NHL talent have done for three years. Even longer than that actually: most of my adult life. It doesn’t seem like it should be that hard to watch someone who is good at the game away from the puck and recommend that player.

It also shouldn’t be that hard to miss manage you’re available caps space sold completely. They had options that would afraid up money over the summer just by sending people away. Just waive them and tell them enjoy the it also shouldn’t be that hard to miss manage your available caps space sold completely. They had options that would have freed up money over the summer just by sending people away. Just wave them and tell them enjoy the check Czexh league and it is a million freed up.

I’m reminded of the old Teddy Roosevelt quote: “In any moment of decision, the best thing you can do is the right thing. The worst thing you can do is nothing.” We have a general manager who regularly does the wrong thing or nothing. This cannot stand any longer.

 

[Aladyyn]

At least with Murray you got the impression that he wanted to make this team good, was aware of the holes in the roster and losing bothered him. I get nothing like that from Botterill.

 

[Duddy]

He should be fired for totally not being able to do his job. If you f*** up as many tasks at your job like he did, we all would've been fired a long time ago.

Smart thing would be to get himcout right now, have a AGM to finish the season or get a GM that is available right now. Keep RK until the end of the season, let the new GM evaluate. If he doesn't see a fit for him, fire him or move him to a random consultant role.

Get me a GM that has a plan, not just one that is sitting, waiting, wishing. Give me one that tells the Pegulas off, if they want to have a say in anything team/player related. There is no sense in bringing in another wishy washy guy like Botts, we need a smart, veteran GM that can do more than "fix" one thing per season.

No more waiting on stuff you have no control over, no more waiting for cap space in 2-3 seasons, no more waiting on random prospects to develop. Get help for the team for now and for the next bunch of seasons. Take chances on skill, instead of the trash we constantly take chances on. Other teams can improve their squad with smart moves, season after season. We take a step back, one forward and one back again to stay at square one. That is unacceptable.

Start the new decade right, be brave, be bold and f***ing finally get to work to give this fanbase a team that they can be proud of again. Because we all deserve it.

 

[5 Minute Major]

Is he still employed?

 

[explore]

I’m officially on the fire Botterill bandwagon. I’m terrified this clown is going to trade Eichel because of all the media attention being thrown that way.

 

[OkimLom]

At least with Murray you got the impression that he wanted to make this team good, was aware of the holes in the roster and losing bothered him. I get nothing like that from Botterill.

He showed that emotion ONCE in his tenure here, in the LA game (I believe his 1st season here; it feels like we've been through 10 honestly).

 

[Buffaloed]

Pierre McGuire believes the Sabres are on the right path
McGuire on the trade deadline:
"I think they're going to move some players out. These guys are incredibly well prepared as a management team... These guys are really in tune with what's going on in the league."

Botts working the phones. Some might think the red phone is the hotline to the Pegulas. But it's a direct line to La Nova Pizzeria.

2-6 NBCSN's Pierre McGuire with Schopp and the Bulldog

McGuire on the direction of the Sabres:
"To the fans out there that really want the positive truth, I do think this thing is going to get turned around. I truly honestly believe it."
Never have I wanted so much for Pierre to be right.

 

[Fjordy]

What nonsense is he talking about? Buffalo will never get into the playoffs while such a guy as Botterill is in the position of GM.

 

[jc17]

Timing is now a huge problem.

Again, unless Botterill is just a really bad boss all around, that doesnt take input from anyone else, I dont want an AGM taking over either. If they could go along with his plan, I see no reason they will come up with a better solution, and execute the deadline properly.

But at this point there's no way they could hire a GM before the deadline if they fire this group tomorrow. I mean they could, but we all know the won't within that time frame.

Also, while Botterill runs the show, we know he isnt the only one evaluating players, he has to rely on scouts. How a room with a GM, 2 assistant GMs, and 3 pro scouts (one of which used to be the analytics guy), allowed the ROR trade, and Mojo, Vesey, sheary, frolik, montour to fill the holes is beyond me. Ultimately the GM is responsible, but he's really not the only one that should face heat.

 

[EmeraldCitySabre]

Pierre McGuire believes the Sabres are on the right path
McGuire on the trade deadline:
"I think they're going to move some players out. These guys are incredibly well prepared as a management team... These guys are really in tune with what's going on in the league."

Botts working the phones. Some might think the red phone is the hotline to the Pegulas. But it's a direct line to La Nova Pizzeria.

2-6 NBCSN's Pierre McGuire with Schopp and the Bulldog

McGuire on the direction of the Sabres:
"To the fans out there that really want the positive truth, I do think this thing is going to get turned around. I truly honestly believe it."
Never have I wanted so much for Pierre to be right.

What exactly is Pierre basing this opinion on? All the great moves Botts has made in the last 3 years? Pierre's a tool and always has been. His own team hated him when he was a coach.

Journalists that I have waaaay more respect for are panning the Sabres roster management, as are most fans currently.

 

[CrazyPsycho]

Shut up pierre

 

[Buffaloed]

What nonsense is he talking about? Buffalo will never get into the playoffs while such a guy as Botterill is in the position of GM.

I find McGuire annoying to listen to but he's one of the few that expresses his opinion without hemming and hawing and being evasive. He doesn't leave himself an out if he's wrong. Botterill is painful to listen to with his circular arguments, scenarios, and situations. He's already calculating how he'll evade accountability if he's wrong.

 

[Jim Bob]

Timing is now a huge problem.

Again, unless Botterill is just a really bad boss all around, that doesnt take input from anyone else, I dont want an AGM taking over either. If they could go along with his plan, I see no reason they will come up with a better solution, and execute the deadline properly.

But at this point there's no way they could hire a GM before the deadline if they fire this group tomorrow. I mean they could, but we all know the won't within that time frame.

Also, while Botterill runs the show, we know he isnt the only one evaluating players, he has to rely on scouts. How a room with a GM, 2 assistant GMs, and 3 pro scouts (one of which used to be the analytics guy), allowed the ROR trade, and Mojo, Vesey, sheary, frolik, montour to fill the holes is beyond me. Ultimately the GM is responsible, but he's really not the only one that should face heat.

They should hire someone like Mike Gillis as the President of Hockey Ops today.

Then he has time between now and the TDL to determine if Botts should be the GM beyond the TDL.

 

[sabrebuild]

When I was young and he worked for the hockey news, I revered him. Then I read his emails in the concussion lawsuit that were released as part of Canadian freedom of information and I lost my respect for him. For a person who’s own son had serious post concussion issues, having to give up the game, bob’s responses in those emails were pretty horrible. He’s a dyed in the wool, old-school throwback hockey guy. Everybody connected talks to Bob and Bob talks to everybody. His opinion holds more weight than just about anybody not affiliated with the team or playing, perhaps even more so. And his outsized ego came through in those emails disclosures. He knows his stuff and he’s a great source because everybody runs to tell him first, but he’s kind of a disgusting human who never made amends or apologies for things that were in those documents.

Yup.

 

[jc17]

They should hire someone like Mike Gillis as the President of Hockey Ops today.

Then he has time between now and the TDL to determine if Botts should be the GM beyond the TDL.

I'd be ok with that. I just think there's a tiny chance the owners make a hire without a lengthy due diligence, as if it makes a difference.

And why not just GM? I think this is something we disagree about in general, but I dont see the point of the extra layer. If Gillis is good enough to be the hockey ops guy, he can just be the GM.

 

[sabrebuild]

Pierre McGuire believes the Sabres are on the right path
McGuire on the trade deadline:
"I think they're going to move some players out. These guys are incredibly well prepared as a management team... These guys are really in tune with what's going on in the league."

Botts working the phones. Some might think the red phone is the hotline to the Pegulas. But it's a direct line to La Nova Pizzeria.

2-6 NBCSN's Pierre McGuire with Schopp and the Bulldog

McGuire on the direction of the Sabres:
"To the fans out there that really want the positive truth, I do think this thing is going to get turned around. I truly honestly believe it."
Never have I wanted so much for Pierre to be right.

Nobody worth listening to can think a management team that traded a 6th for a later future 6th is well prepared.

I'm willing to hear a lot of theories about all sorts, but a team that does that at the draft, that stumbles thru a full year of not knowing what to do when Mitts and Tage were clearly not ready and that trades a star player at the last second of their own self imposed deadline is definitively not well prepared.

F U Pierre.

 

[Fjordy]

And why not just GM? I think this is something we disagree about in general, but I dont see the point of the extra layer. If Gillis is good enough to be the hockey ops guy, he can just be the GM.

Because Gillis does not want to be a GM, he wants to be hockey ops guy.

 

[jc17]

Because Gillis does not want to be a GM, he wants to be hockey ops guy.

A general manager, Gillis believes, must devote his full-time efforts to keeping ownership happy, communicating with his head coach, overseeing player personnel, and making staffing decisions.
Gillis is inspired by the bigger picture: challenging the dimensions of the NHL rink and the time of day teams practice, suggesting a complete overhaul of traditional scouting processes, and imagining a future where a team dresses five forwards and a goalie (seriously).

"As a general manager of a team, you’re really myopic. You’re really focused on your team performance, on your individual player performance, on your coaching performance. I like that part of the job, but right now I’m more interested in how you build an organization, how you see results, how you measure results," said Gillis

That's fine, but we need a general manager. Someone to make those decisions. If that's not what he wants, then he's not the right guy.

Good luck convincing the pegulas to hire a guy that wants to spend time thinking about rink dimensions and practice times to fix their struggling team. They need a life raft, which Gillis could be if he chooses, but not in that role.

 

[Fjordy]

That's fine, but we need a general manager. Someone to make those decisions. If that's not what he wants, then he's not the right guy.

Good luck convincing the pegulas to hire a guy that wants to spend time thinking about rink dimensions and practice times to fix their struggling team. They need a life raft, which Gillis could be if he chooses, but not in that role.

Well, they can just hire Hunter for the role of GM.

 

[sabrebuild]

The Pierre and Bobby Mac talk reminds me vividly of listening to wgr and having espn guys talk about how the Bills are getting better and it takes a while and this gm just needs more time, too much turnover.

Just a line of bullshit, because we don't get more access by crapping on franchises, so sell hope, because that's what pro sports is all about.

The ferraro and Button type interviews are interesting, because they are so out of the norm, it makes me suspect, they know this is a crazy Trainwreck and a lot of league people think Botts is a joke.

Edit: the ESPN guy was John Clayton. Like a decade of trust management, guve them more time. Blah blah blah.

 

[Fjordy]

What the hell does this guy need, for what? So that he again dragged such guys as Sheary, Vesey and Sobotka into the team? He has no plan, he says stupid things in the press, he can’t find 2C for a year and a half, goalie, he can’t do anything. He must be fired and a competent guy should take his place.