Jason Botterill Discussion 3

[darcyRegier]

This is definitely the most important offseason of Botteril's career, I'm interested to see how it goes. There's a huge amount of pressure on management to make the playoffs next season, but a lot of good decisions are needed to get the team there.

This team desperately needs 2 top 6 forwards, and most likely will have to trade a top 4 dman in Risto to get one. And then from there a top 4 dman will have to be added to replace Risto.

I think a bottom 6 consisting of Erod/Mitts/Nylander and Girgs/Larsson/Smtih could be good enough, but I think a couple solid 3rd/4th liners need to be added to the forward corps. Foligno and Brett Connolly are my choices.

 

[joshjull]

Don’t get baffled by semantics... Casey was rushed to the NHL, he wasn’t ready (as evidenced by being generally terrible in the easiest minutes possible).

Mitts being rushed to an NHL job he wasn’t SSU for was absolutely a byproduct of the ROR trade.

Semantics? Not quite. You’re changing the topic a bit.

The poster I quoted (@sabremike) said Mitts wasn’t sheltered. He clearly was. He also argued Mitts was tasked with being a big contributor this past season. He wasn’t. Maybe if Mitts had played 13+mins a night at ES while being a staple on the top PP unit for a month or two. But that never happened.

Now you're talking about whether Mitts was ready for the NHL or if the the trade forced him onto the roster. Thats fine I’ll address it. I have zero doubt Mitts would have been on the NHL roster this past season with or without the ROR trade happening. He was Botts golden boy brought in at the end of the previous season. An act that burned the first year of his ELC. I find it very hard to imagine Mitts wasn't going to be on the roster after that.

 

[kirby11]

Imagine getting transported back to the day Eichel got drafted. And you're told you'll have to be patient and not to expect too much from the team. Not in year 1, no, but as Eichel's entering ****ing year 5 in the NHL. Oh, and the GM will piss away a year of a potential generational defenseman's ELC because reasons.

Unless the Sabres magically get to 85-90ish points or so, I don't see how Botts comes back, barring the team getting decimated by injuries...which is very possible. At which point we're either hoping Botts improves in year 4 on the job or we're back on the Pegulas' dumbass hiring carousel.

This team, man...

 

[Rasmus CacOlainen]

Imagine getting transported back to the day Eichel got drafted. And you're told you'll have to be patient and not to expect too much from the team. Not in year 1, no, but as Eichel's entering ****ing year 5 in the NHL. Oh, and the GM will piss away a year of a potential generational defenseman's ELC because reasons.

Unless the Sabres magically get to 85-90ish points or so, I don't see how Botts comes back, barring the team getting decimated by injuries...which is very possible. At which point we're either hoping Botts improves in year 4 on the job or we're back on the Pegulas' dumbass hiring carousel.

This team, man...

The f*** does 85 point do for you in the East?? We would need around 100 to be sure of a playoff spot. That should be the target, not 85-90.

 

[GOALOFSSON]

We probably have a better chance at drafting a high end player than not at 7, to be added to one of the best groups of young, up and coming talent.

Maybe a good player at 31 with our extra 1st.

Yet people want to **** on our GM all day for no reason.

 

[itwasaforwardpass]

We probably have a better chance at drafting a high end player than not at 7, to be added to one of the best groups of young, up and coming talent.

Maybe a good player at 31 with our extra 1st.

Yet people want to **** on our GM all day for no reason.

So it's a feather in the GMs cap that we were 5th worst in the league which resulted in us drafting 7th? Okay.

 

[Chainshot]

Don't f*** this up again Botts.

 

[Chainshot]

We probably have a better chance at drafting a high end player than not at 7, to be added to one of the best groups of young, up and coming talent.

Maybe a good player at 31 with our extra 1st.

Yet people want to **** on our GM all day for no reason.

There are plenty of reasons to shit on the GM. He isn't good at his job and the team is actually worse than the last noob they hired who was widely reviled. His teams weren't even status quo bad, they went backwards. So... maybe that?

 

[joshjull]

Don't **** this up again Botts.

Simple but needed advice

 

[Rowley Birkin]

Not sure what there is to not see if you start with the actual decline in the standings.

We'll have to agree to disagree. He's done nothing to show me that he should still have a job.

Take one step back to move two steps forward?

The main reason we finished so low in the standings was Housley. Botterill has dealt with that.

You can argue that he should have canned Housley mid season but I think Krueger was his target all along & knew he wouldn't be available before he eventually got him.

 

[Jame]

Take one step back to move two steps forward?

The main reason we finished so low in the standings was Housley. Botterill has dealt with that.

You can argue that he should have canned Housley mid season but I think Krueger was his target all along & knew he wouldn't be available before he eventually got him.

Yes, the main reason we finished so low in the standings were Housley and the ROR trade.

Yes, you can argue that everything Botts has done has make the team significantly worse.

We’ve taken 3 steps back and no steps forward

 

[SabresFan26]

GMs should be given a 4-5 year initial contract to see the progress they make as that’s about the time it takes to truly change a program and then an extension would be warranted based on results. GMJB has had half that time.

 

[OkimLom]

Still not seeing anything, chief.

Patience has all but run out with most of you folks, so it's probably good the wait is almost over.

Preach about drafting and development, which is a patient process, and consistently make decisions that clearly go against that. Botterill has dropped the ball with his decision making on key players he drafted and brought in.

For example, signing Mittelstadt to an ELC and burning those years off quicker than you should, pushing the timeline to get him to his 2nd contract faster. Not only that, but doing so when it was pretty clear in college against the older stronger kids, that he had a ways to go in his development, but that Juniors TOURNAMENT was so fun to watch. And then doubled down when he was one of the worst prepared prospects in camp for what was expected of him. He EARNED a spot in Rochester, but they kept him up in Buffalo all year long under poor coaching.

Then there’s the Thompson handling, again a guy that earned a spot in Rochester but was kept up in Buffalo under the same poor coaching and played horrible up here, minus a half a dozen games. Not shockingly, when he went down to Rochester under Taylor and that coaching staff, he flourished and even commented on the positive atmosphere.

If you’re a GM, and not actively trying to be competitive based on the moves or lack of moves you made, you want your prospects in the Rochester atmosphere 10/10 times over the Buffalo atmosphere.

Then there’s the idea that Housley wasn’t Botterill’s guy. If that was the case, and Botterill knew he just needed to wait to bring in his own guy, prospects would’ve been protected from the poor coaching of Housley and in a more trusting atmosphere of Taylor, a guy Botterill brought in. No self-respecting GM, would risk putting his prospects in places where they can learn poor habits if the GM is capable of seeing his head coach as something awful.

Just a couple things I don’t like about Botterill. I can keep going if you want to know more things I don’t like about the guys tenure.

 

[BananaSquad]

GMs should be given a 4-5 year initial contract to see the progress they make as that’s about the time it takes to truly change a program and then an extension would be warranted based on results. GMJB has had half that time.

I agree. Chevy in Winnipeg couldn’t make the playoffs for years and people wanted a change, now look at him.

 

[Reddawg]

I agree. Chevy in Winnipeg couldn’t make the playoffs for years and people wanted a change, now look at him.

To be fair he luckboxed into Patrik Laine which definitely didn't hurt.

 

[Jame]

I agree. Chevy in Winnipeg couldn’t make the playoffs for years and people wanted a change, now look at him.

He missed the playoffs in 5 of 8 years and got past the first round once... after all his patience, the cap caught up with him and now he’s got to give away talent...

Everytime someone points to Winnipeg as a positive model my eyes roll out the back of my head.

 

[Aladyyn]

I agree. Chevy in Winnipeg couldn’t make the playoffs for years and people wanted a change, now look at him.

Look at him still being bad!

 

[Chainshot]

GMs should be given a 4-5 year initial contract to see the progress they make as that’s about the time it takes to truly change a program and then an extension would be warranted based on results. GMJB has had half that time.

Oddly, so did his much-hated predecessor.

They've had two inexperienced hires, and both have made errors. Imagine if Murray had decided to sack Bylsma, he might still be here. The Amerks would probably suck. They likely wouldn't have a few draft picks. And alcohol sales in town would likely be much higher.

 

[kirby11]

The **** does 85 point do for you in the East?? We would need around 100 to be sure of a playoff spot. That should be the target, not 85-90.

I concur, but I think Botts could sell 85-90 pts. as enough progress to convince the Pegulas that he should keep his job.

 

[OkimLom]

GMs should be given a 4-5 year initial contract to see the progress they make as that’s about the time it takes to truly change a program and then an extension would be warranted based on results. GMJB has had half that time.

I agree with you actually. But so far, Botterill has done a poor job of convincing me he deserves anything more going forward. This is his 3rd offseason. This is surely a big and important offseason for him. I’m sure he’s even convinced others not to finish that contracts.

Depending on the path he takes this year, if he punts another offseason and decides to use this to give Krueger a year to see what he has (which is what I think happens), then he needs to go. You can’t go 3 offseasons in a row of minimal moves to improve the team. That’s just too much time wasted. That’s not even counting the lack of in-season moves that he sat on his hands for. For a team that supposedly has a lot of holes and is a mess he sure is taking glacial pace to fix the those areas, and those areas go far beyond contracts.

If you can’t determine which areas need improvement where you should focus, in a half season, then you are not cut out for the job. I gave him his first year to study the team. From then on, it’s all on him.

 

[Jame]

I agree with you actually. But so far, Botterill has done a poor job of convincing me he deserves anything more going forward. This is his 3rd offseason. This is surely a big and important offseason for him. I’m sure he’s even convinced others not to finish that contracts.

Depending on the path he takes this year, if he punts another offseason and decides to use this to give Krueger a year to see what he has (which is what I think happens), then he needs to go. You can’t go 3 offseasons in a row of minimal moves to improve the team. That’s just too much time wasted. That’s not even counting the lack of in-season moves that he sat on his hands for. For a team that supposedly has a lot of holes and is a mess he sure is taking glacial pace to fix the those areas, and those areas go far beyond contracts.

If you can’t determine which areas need improvement where you should focus, in a half season, then you are not cut out for the job. I gave him his first year to study the team. From then on, it’s all on him.

... and when you look at the decisions he made after a year of “studying the team”, it’s terrifying to think about what he’ll do next.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

Oddly, so did his much-hated predecessor.

They've had two inexperienced hires, and both have made errors. Imagine if Murray had decided to sack Bylsma, he might still be here. The Amerks would probably suck. They likely wouldn't have a few draft picks. And alcohol sales in town would likely be much higher.

... So let's keep changing GMs every 2 to 3 years. Each one likely having his own philosophy, his own types of players he wants to bring in, his own vision. Which obviously takes time to execute. Rinse & repeat.

I was one of the guys here who DIDN'T want Botterill leading up to his hiring. Despite all his bad moves (more than JB has made thus far imo) I actually wanted them to keep Murray to let him finish his plan. Once he was gone I wanted an experienced GM to come in who would likely be able to execute quicker. But once he was given the job... You need to get behind whoever is there & hope ownership give him that sufficient period of time to execute.

 

[Jame]

... So let's keep changing GMs every 2 to 3 years. Each one likely having his own philosophy, his own types of players he wants to bring in, his own vision. Which obviously takes time to execute. Rinse & repeat.

I was one of the guys here who DIDN'T want Botterill leading up to his hiring. Despite all his bad moves (more than JB has made thus far imo) I actually wanted them to keep Murray to let him finish his plan. Once he was gone I wanted an experienced GM to come in who would likely be able to execute quicker. But once he was given the job... You need to get behind whoever is there & hope ownership give him that sufficient period of time to execute.

You think Murray made more bad moves than Botts? That’s crazy... You must think depth and draft picks are more important than star players and coaches...

 

[jcbeze]

Take one step back to move two steps forward?

The main reason we finished so low in the standings was Housley. Botterill has dealt with that.

You can argue that he should have canned Housley mid season but I think Krueger was his target all along & knew he wouldn't be available before he eventually got him.

this. Botts wanted him but settled for Phil.

 

[Montag DP]

You think Murray made more bad moves than Botts? That’s crazy... You must think depth and draft picks are more important than star players and coaches...

What good coach did Murray ever hire? Botterill has the edge over him in coaching, because he at least fired the terrible coach he hired after two years.