Jason Botterill Discussion 3

[BuffaloGooner]

Once again we've moved into angry hypotheticals

The worst part of this board unfortunately

 

[truthbluth]

Once again we've moved into angry hypotheticals

If you are going to be shitty and superior, the least you can do is quote me.

 

[jc17]

If you are going to be ****ty and superior, the least you can do is quote me.

Stop getting worked up about things that haven't happened. Its not worth the stress

And for the record, many people agreed with you so, its not directed just at you

 

[haseoke39]

Stop getting worked up about things that haven't happened. Its not worth the stress

And for the record, many people agreed with you so, its not directed just at you

I don't know. Plenty of these hypotheticals have come true.

And at least when it's prospective, you avoid the wave of people who come to pile on any move the Sabres move with rationalizing praise. For dead sure, if Sam Reinhart is traded for a late first and a B prospect, half the board will celebrate because "it was a move that had to be made" or something, even if they don't think so now.

 

[jc17]

I don't know. Plenty of these hypotheticals have come true.

Huh?

 

[truthbluth]

Stop getting worked up about things that haven't happened. Its not worth the stress

This is literally the same advice this board gave me last year when I worried that Botts would blow the O’Reilly trade.

 

[joshjull]

This is literally the same advice this board gave me last year when I worried that Botts would blow the O’Reilly trade.

After Lebrun’s article I’m getting less worried about Botts and more worried about owner interference

 

[zbubble]

"For as much as the Sabres are being criticized for the deal, what’s puzzling to me looking back was how few teams actually showed interest, probably shying away from a contract that pays him $7.5 million a year. Montreal dabbled a bit and there were reports Carolina called, but really, the stunner now a year later is that more teams didn’t show interest in a great buy-low candidate."

This leaves out the 7.5 million signing bonus he was due by midnight on the same day he was traded, which the Blues paid out. O'Reilly made 15 million this past year for the bonus + his salary. I have to believe there would have been more teams interested, and the return gone up, had the Sabres been willing to pay the bonus and then trade him. And I also believe that call had to be an ownership decision.

 

[jc17]

This is literally the same advice this board gave me last year when I worried that Botts would blow the O’Reilly trade.

That was after there was significant talk about ROR being traded.

Not just, "pick random good player on the team and act like he's going to be moved for nothing"

If there were reports that the team was looking to move Reinhart, sure be worried, but there's nothing significant out there yet

 

[slip]

This leaves out the 7.5 million signing bonus he was due by midnight on the same day he was traded, which the Blues paid out. O'Reilly made 15 million this past year for the bonus + his salary. I have to believe there would have been more teams interested, and the return gone up, had the Sabres been willing to pay the bonus and then trade him. And I also believe that call had to be an ownership decision.

ROR's compensation for 2018-2019 was 8.5 million, 7.5 bonus money and 1 million salary.

 

[Jim Bob]

That was after there was significant talk about ROR being traded.

Not just, "pick random good player on the team and act like he's going to be moved for nothing"

If there were reports that the team was looking to move Reinhart, sure be worried, but there's nothing significant out there yet

I expect Ristolainen to be the guy that gets moved for pennies on the dollar this off season. Just hope Botts brings in a legit upgrade at RHD if he does because the remaining RHD on the roster have bad fancy stats, too:

 

[OkimLom]

Would like to switch topics (since even I'm tired of discussing "that", but stay in the realm of the Botterill discussion.

Where do you think Botterill needs to go from today in regards to correcting the ship that is our team?
How confident are you in his ability to perform those tasks?
What do you think Botterill will actually get done this offseason?
Where do you think he needs to grow as a GM?
In your opinion, what appear to be his strengths and weaknesses as a GM?

 

[HaNotsri]

Once again we've moved into angry hypotheticals

Anything to get away from the sad facts.

 

[The Red Helmet]

Would like to switch topics (since even I'm tired of discussing "that", but stay in the realm of the Botterill discussion.

Where do you think Botterill needs to go from today in regards to correcting the ship that is our team?
How confident are you in his ability to perform those tasks?
What do you think Botterill will actually get done this offseason?
Where do you think he needs to grow as a GM?
In your opinion, what appear to be his strengths and weaknesses as a GM?

Based off not only the ROR trade, but the Reinhart bridge (could have had Reinhart long term for around 7, now you are paying him 9 or more), the handling of Housley and the 6th round pick trade, I have no confidence in Botterill. This is easily the least amount of hope I have had for this team in years. Even with Eichel and Dahlin.

 

[joshjull]

Based off not only the ROR trade, but the Reinhart bridge (could have had Reinhart long term for around 7, now you are paying him 9 or more), the handling of Housley and the 6th round pick trade, I have no confidence in Botterill. This is easily the least amount of hope I have had for this team in years. Even with Eichel and Dahlin.

How do you know he could have had Sam long term for 7mil?

Do we know what Sam’s side was looking for in long term? Its hard to know where the impasse came on a longer term deal without knowing the numbers involved. If it was 7mil per then I would be pissed we didn’t jump at that. I wanted Sam locked in for 8yrs.

As for having faith in Botts, I don’t have much becasue of the hiring of Housley as head coach. To me all the rot around the roster stems from that hiring. So I expect nothing this summer. I can only hope he proves me misguided in my lack of faith.

 

[The Red Helmet]

How do you know he could have had Sam long term for 7mil?

Do we know what Sam’s side was looking for in long term? Its hard to know where the impasse came on a longer term deal without knowing the numbers involved. If it was 7mil per then I would be pissed we didn’t jump at that. I wanted Sam locked in for 8yrs.

As for having faith in Botts, I don’t have much becasue of the hiring of Housley as head coach. To me all the rot around the roster stems from that hiring. So I expect nothing this summer. I can only hope he proves me misguided in my lack of faith.

I'm not going to fight you on the Reinhart point but much more accomplished players were signing for around 7 last off-season. Prices go up every year and players like to get under contract quicker rather than later almost all of the time. The bridge guaranteed that you would pay more on the cap when you will need the money more.

 

[Jim Bob]

Would like to switch topics (since even I'm tired of discussing "that", but stay in the realm of the Botterill discussion.

Where do you think Botterill needs to go from today in regards to correcting the ship that is our team?
How confident are you in his ability to perform those tasks?
What do you think Botterill will actually get done this offseason?
Where do you think he needs to grow as a GM?
In your opinion, what appear to be his strengths and weaknesses as a GM?

A question for each NHL team heading into the off-season - Sportsnet.ca

Buffalo Sabres: They can’t come back with the same roster and expect a different result, so how will they push this thing forward?

It really looked like the Sabres had finally turned a corner when they went on a 10-game winning streak in November, but from the end of that run to the conclusion of the regular season Buffalo went 16-33-8 and were the worst team in the league. So much for that.

Although Rasmus Dahlin can be expected to get better and perhaps new coach Ralph Krueger can get more out of Casey Mittelstadt or even Alex Nylander, there’s reason to believe some key pieces of the roster could slow from this season’s pace. Jeff Skinner just got huge term and a high salary that rewarded a 14.9 shooting percentage that was well over his career average. Sam Reinhart had a career year, but he slowed in the final two months. GM Jason Botterill can’t just assume a positive, natural progression. Buffalo hasn’t made the playoffs since 2011 or won a round since 2007 — it’s time to accelerate this thing.

That, of course, is easier said than done. Getting Krueger is an intriguing start. Once again Rasmus Ristolainen is in the rumour mill, but he and Dahlin are the only blueliners signed beyond next season. There’s more untradeable contracts (or at least ones that won’t return much of significance) than not up front. The goaltending underperformed so efforts have to be made to find an upgrade there. The Sabres hold two first-round picks, but their GM is signalling that he’s more likely to keep both of them. Maybe patience is the best way forward here, but Sabres fans have been patient over the years only to end up in more or less the same place they started.

“We’re looking long term here,” Botterill told reporters at Krueger’s hiring announcement. “We can understand a fan’s perspective, but it can’t impact our decisions, our vision of how our team needs to eventually look.”

I am in Missouri mode with Botterill (and the Pegulas) at this point.

Show me.

Show me you know how to make this team better.

 

[joshjull]

I'm not going to fight you on the Reinhart point but much more accomplished players were signing for around 7 last off-season. Prices go up every year and players like to get under contract quicker rather than later almost all of the time. The bridge guaranteed that you would pay more on the cap when you will need the money more.

I get what your saying and you make a good point. All I’m countering with is knowing what Sam’s side was asking for would help stoke the rage or calm it a little.

 

[itwasaforwardpass]

Fix this, Jason. Please.

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

He needs to find a 2nd or 3rd line. I don't see Buffalo being able to ice a successful 2nd line anytime soon.

That will could from some combination of UFA, promotions, or if players bouncing back. If Housley was suppressing player production it will be more likely .

 

[Chainshot]

After Lebrun’s article I’m getting less worried about Botts and more worried about owner interference

Hey, what's to worry about? The unsupervised spending on both UFA's and staff under Regier that went so well? How about the LaFontaine hire-and-fire-resignation? Or the hiring of two inexperienced GM's? Or the hiring of a completely novice HC on the heels of what may have been a reactionary move to hire the "best" coach not named Babcock based on Cup performances?

It's amazing that at this point they have such a poor scouting department, are recognized as being way behind on data and analytics, and their performance staff is regularly allowing some of the most man-games lost to injury in the league year after year. What a shit show.

 

[joshjull]

Hey, what's to worry about? The unsupervised spending on both UFA's and staff under Regier that went so well? How about the LaFontaine hire-and-fire-resignation? Or the hiring of two inexperienced GM's? Or the hiring of a completely novice HC on the heels of what may have been a reactionary move to hire the "best" coach not named Babcock based on Cup performances?

It's amazing that at this point they have such a poor scouting department, are recognized as being way behind on data and analytics, and their performance staff is regularly allowing some of the most man-games lost to injury in the league year after year. What a **** show.

But other than that how was the play Mrs Lincoln....

 

[Chainshot]

But other than that how was the play Mrs Lincoln....

Watching Walter Matthau and Barbara Streisand in "Hello Dahlin"? Or perhaps Jeff Skinner's ode to Chekhov with "The Cherry Picker Orchard"? Or the avant garde play about the tank "Eichquus"?

 

[kirby11]

Hey, what's to worry about? The unsupervised spending on both UFA's and staff under Regier that went so well? How about the LaFontaine hire-and-fire-resignation? Or the hiring of two inexperienced GM's? Or the hiring of a completely novice HC on the heels of what may have been a reactionary move to hire the "best" coach not named Babcock based on Cup performances?

It's amazing that at this point they have such a poor scouting department, are recognized as being way behind on data and analytics, and their performance staff is regularly allowing some of the most man-games lost to injury in the league year after year. What a **** show.

Schopp actually made a great point about all the on ice struggles as they relate to the Pegulas, and Botts, to a lesser extent, earlier today. The Sabres have been getting their teeth kicked in for going on 9 years straight. Why not try changing how the org. operates and take even a baby step into actively using data and analytics to inform some decisions?

Scouting, research and development, player wellness/health, analytics...these are all areas where Pegula bucks could make significant differences in the Sabres' success if they were valued at all by the higher ups in the organization.

 

[Zip15]

The organization really needs a win with the fanbase. I may need coffee, but I wonder if Botts offer sheets one of the Leafs. It's almost a no-lose scenario for him. If they match, then they match and we all understand that's a possibility under the CBA. That comes with the added bonus of positive press that you're trying to improve in creative ways. If the Leafs don't match, we poached a good player from a hated rival.

If I was hiding in my office like Botts should be right now, I'd be thinking hard about this (he should be, anyways, but I digress).

Schopp actually made a great point about all the on ice struggles as they relate to the Pegulas, and Botts, to a lesser extent, earlier today. The Sabres have been getting their teeth kicked in for going on 9 years straight. Why not try changing how the org. operates and take even a baby step into actively using data and analytics to inform some decisions?

Scouting, research and development, player wellness/health, analytics...these are all areas where Pegula bucks could make significant differences in the Sabres' success if they were valued at all by the higher ups in the organization.

I've made this analogy numerous times on this board: in terms of analytics, the Sabres are where the Baltimore Orioles were 2-3 years ago (minus all the winning the O's did from 2012-16, of course) when you could tell they were getting lapped by the field in data-driven analysis. The Sabres give nods to analytics, but anyone with half a brain can tell they've fallen way behind in that area. One can hope that the hire of Krueger is the first of a multi-step process to catch them up with the league. But there need to be more resources put into that area.