Post-Game Talk: Jarry, GMR, and CODY CECI bring their "A" game!

[Gurglesons]

That quote from Sully in the off-season about wanting Rodrigues because he was going to be a goal scorer seems to hint that HCMS doesn't think throwing Rodrigues on the top line would be so awful, Emp. I personally think Sully's lost it, but that's about as close as we can get to the organization's thinking on the potential of one Mr. E. Rod., Esq.

we have no idea if Sully was talking about Rodrigues in that clip.

 

[HandshakeLine]

That sounds great in theory, but I'm not sure that's how it works in practice.

In theory, if you were a new coach who was getting the room to buy in and you hadn't squandered your authority with some weird line up decisions, it's totally do-able. I don't know if it's possible with our current coaching situation, but, hey, stranger things have happened.

 

[HandshakeLine]

we have no idea if Sully was talking about Rodrigues in that clip.

Huh, I'll have to rewatch it.

 

[The Old Master]

That sounds great in theory, but I'm not sure that's how it works in practice.

i've been fired from coaching just like all the great ones. and i can still live with myself.

 

[KIRK]

In theory, if you were a new coach who was getting the room to buy in and you hadn't squandered your authority with some weird line up decisions, it's totally do-able. I don't know if it's possible with our current coaching situation, but, hey, stranger things have happened.

On the other hand, a new coach telling Sid the team is better if he's playing with the leftovers until the GM can address things . . . I'm hard pressed to think of the coach with a brass set like that.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Hell, if I were Sullivan, no would be the time to do all my wildest experimentation! I'd have a fat guaranteed contract, I have my two rings, might as well ice the weirdest lineup I can just to see what works. Sid wants to get me fired? f*** him, he's playing goal in both games of a B2B!

 

[HandshakeLine]

On the other hand, a new coach telling Sid the team is better if he's playing with the leftovers until the GM can address things . . . I'm hard pressed to think of the coach with a brass set like that.

I think you could easily sell it to Sid as a temporary thing, especially if the FO brought back one of the players he wants to play with. It'd be harder to sell to the fans and the media, hence the screaming here every time it's brought up.

 

[Pens x]

I hope the next head coach isn’t some former grinder type player that will favor garbage players.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Hextall could alleviate this issue.

And you're right . . . given the team's current makeup, the leftovers are better suited to work with Crosby than with Malkin. Hasn't always been that way through the years, but it is now.

I don’t honestly see a solution this year.

Hextall is like the guy strolling down Rodeo Drive, but he’s wearing a one size fits all George shirt and all he is packing is a Reflex MasterCard, two pennies and a pocketful of lint.

you do whatever it takes to win. sid and geno know their time is limited. both want to win more than any thing else. [you don't get to where they are with out it] they have enough personal hard ware they need except for one more cup and would love to help the other one get it.

Ok, but how does their willingness to sacrifice help the team if say, Crosby struggles without their best two wingers - much like Malkin does?

 

[The Old Master]

Hell, if I were Sullivan, no would be the time to do all my wildest experimentation! I'd have a fat guaranteed contract, I have my two rings, might as well ice the weirdest lineup I can just to see what works. Sid wants to get me fired? f*** him, he's playing goal in both games of a B2B!

preparing for your next job. i like it.

 

[KIRK]

I think you could easily sell it to Sid as a temporary thing, especially if the FO brought back one of the players he wants to play with. It'd be harder to sell to the fans and the media, hence the screaming here every time it's brought up.

I just think it's a lot easier said than done in practice.

Ironic, I know, because if there's a person we're told is all about the team, it's Sid, so you think he'd understand this type of pitch for the good of the team.

So, maybe it's not even Sid. Maybe it's the coach being afraid to do it given the risks. Or maybe the coach genuinely thinks, in spite of the last 80 games, give or take, that GCR and Malkin with the left overs gives them the best chance to win.

As I said, however you slice it, it's all academic, because it'll never happen.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I hope the next head coach isn’t some former grinder type player that will favor garbage players.

I'm pretty sure those are the only people getting into coaching.

 

[KIRK]

I don’t honestly see a solution this year.

Hextall is like the guy strolling down Rodeo Drive, but he’s wearing a one size fits all George shirt and packing a Reflex MasterCard.



Ok, but how does their willingness to sacrifice help the team if say, Crosby struggles without their best two wingers - much like Malkin does?

Does that mean if Sid struggles without the team's two best wingers and the same quality ice time that he's over the hill like Malkin was 48 hours ago?

 

[HandshakeLine]

So, maybe it's not even Sid. Maybe it's the coach being afraid to do it given the risks. Or maybe the coach genuinely thinks, in spite of the last 80 games, give or take, that GCR and Malkin with the left overs gives them the best chance to win.

I'm not sure which is worse, tbh. Option A is bad because any coach that can will this roster to the POs and into contention for the next few years needs to have vision and be bold about it. So if our coach is afraid to upset the apple cart, we're f***ed into mediocrity. Option B is bad because that means you have a coach that is both stubborn and dumb and he's going to alienate everyone regardless of our record.

 

[The Old Master]

I don’t honestly see a solution this year.

Hextall is like the guy strolling down Rodeo Drive, but he’s wearing a one size fits all George shirt and all he is packing is a Reflex MasterCard, two pennies and a pocketful of lint.



Ok, but how does their willingness to sacrifice help the team if say, Crosby struggles without their best two wingers - much like Malkin does?

no one knows until you try. but 1 thing i do know, if you don't try its not going to end well for any body.

 

[KIRK]

I'm not sure which is worse, tbh. Option A is bad because any coach that can will this roster to the POs and into contention for the next few years needs to have vision and be bold about it. So if our coach is afraid to upset the apple cart, we're f***ed into mediocrity. Option B is bad because that means you have a coach that is both stubborn and dumb and he's going to alienate everyone regardless of our record.

That has dawned on me once or twice this year.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

no one knows until you try. but 1 thing i do know, if you don't try its not going to end well for any body.

Well that’s been my point all along - but if it doesn’t work then it doesn’t mean Crosby is pouting like has been hinted at by others.

Does that mean if Sid struggles without the team's two best wingers and the same quality ice time that he's over the hill like Malkin was 48 hours ago?

They are both aging, but not Joe Thornton old yet.

 

[mpp9]

Having BART means Crosby doesn’t get Tanev, but some leftover spaz like McCann, who never meshes with either top pivot.

So I doubt Crosby would pout, but that doesn’t mean he won’t struggle either.

Again, Sullivan did break up the Crosby line to help Malkin and gave him Rust.

However, it waters down the lines, even though it’s meant to help your other star pivot.

We haven’t seen Crosby play with KK and Tanev together on a line though, and I’d at least like to see them together for a spell with GMR.

Those guys play with a shit ton of speed and grit, and I’d think that suits Crosby’s game more than Malkin.

It doesn’t get solved without bringing in another player. Maybe pick up Simon on waivers to try and tread water until a better solution comes along.

Zucker comes back, he should be stapled to Sid.

 

[KIRK]

Well that’s been my point all along - but if it doesn’t work then it doesn’t mean Crosby is pouting like has been hinted at by others.



They are both aging, but not Joe Thornton old yet.

I wonder what might have been against Montreal IF Sully had reunited GMR and put Zucker with Sid. Perhaps it would've been the same result, but like the argument for trying Sid with the leftovers now, it's hard to imagine the result being worse.

 

[The Old Master]

It doesn’t get solved without bringing in another player. Maybe pick up Simon waivers to try and tread water until a better solution comes along.

Zucker comes back, he should be stapled to Sid.

never set anything in stone or you'll end up just like sully

 

[DesertPenguin]

It is really up to Malkin to play like last night. When he is skating and seems to have a flow not sure line mates really matter as long as they are capable to read the play and react accordingly. Sid can be good with Kap and a LW who brings some wins on the boards and goes to the tough areas. I don't think McCann is that but I have thought about a Tanev, Sid Kap line.

If he ever recovers, sounds like you're talking about a Zucker - Sid - Kap line...

 

[wgknestrick]

The biggest problem this team has is that neither of our 2 old, "once superstar", Cs actually drive the play at 5v5 themselves anymore. Guentzel and Rust do. Kappy is probably more of a Rust than he is a Jake.

Crosby doesn't shoot enough so needs a shooter and also someone who has legs to back check for him (IE one skilled W and another forechecker W)
Malkin is constantly going in too deep in the O zone on the forecheck and needs the same above. We don't have enough wings with good shots going to the high % areas like Jake does.

I do agree that Malkin is best with Jake and Rust because Crosby isn't quite as bad away from them as Malkin is.
Tanev and McCann also have to be together because of the incredible results they have (better than either with Crosby).
Zucker being pretty much terrible (and out for the season) is the main issue with no solutions.

This board keeps bitching at Sully, but he is really out of cards to play to make up 3 consistently productive lines at 5v5. We have 2 productive lines and then have a superstar C's line on the outside looking in.

 

[Ugene Magic]

These options are pretty yikes. If Malkin gets Guentzel and Rust then you probably need to get another player for Crosby because if Zucker and Kappy don’t work you’re out of meaningful options.

But... they have a meaningful 3rd line with an adequate 3c. If you slot TB there, fine, see how it goes.

I'd want two deals to happen, I don't care what it takes...

Dumoulin/Petts for Rakell.

Some form of (not all) Zucker, Rust, McCann, Tanev, Kapanen, Jankowski, Riikola, Poulin, Lee, 1st 2022 (if 1st is used a 2nd 2021 must come back) or 2 2nds 2021 & 2022 (if the two 2nds are used a 3rd 2021 must come back) and there's more... assets

1 top forward (Zucker/Rust/Kapanen), 1 secondary forward (McCann/Tanev) and fill in from there. Jankowski, Riikola, Poulin, 1st 2022 (switch out what you think, but it's not impossible)

For Forsberg with one season remaining after this, Granlund UFA - 50% retained and 2nd 2021.

Make it happen...

without Zucker/McCann

Guentzel, Crosby, Kapanen
Forsberg, Malkin, Rust
Rakell, Ganlund, Angello
ZAR, Blueger, Tanev

Without Kapanen/McCann

Guentzel, Crosby, Rakell
Forsberg, Malkin, Rust
Zucker, Granlund, Angello
ZAR, Blueger, Tanev

Without Rust/McCann

Guentzel, Crosby, Kapanen
Forsberg, Malkin, Rakell
Zucker, Granlund, Angello
ZAR, Blueger, Tanev

Without Rust/Tanev

Guentzel, Crosby, Kapanen
Forsberg, Malkin, Rakell
Zucker, Granlund, Angello
McCann, Blueger, ZAR

Without Kapanen/Tanev

Guentzel, Crosby, Rust
Forsberg, Malkin, Rakell
Zucker, Granlund, Angello
McCann, Blueger, ZAR

Without Zucker/Tanev

Guentzel, Crosby, Kapanen
Forsberg, Malkin, Rust
Rakell, Granlund, Angello
McCann, Blueger, ZAR

I think it's plausible....It would certainly have to be a hockey trade, and I think Poile would like to have more longer controlled players. It's just down to what you'll have to give up he wants.

What do you want? A cup or the futures?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

People seem to be using Malkin and Zucker’s xGF% to defend their usage. Crosby and Rodrigues have pretty dominant numbers together.

Long term, I don’t think it is a solution. But as I said, try any of Kapanen, McCann, Bleuger, ERod or Tanev with Sid and see how it works and if GMR are still as dominant as they’ve been.

There's a difference between someone of Zucker's ability and someone of E-Rod's ability. That's not even close to comparable arguments.

You've used the "eye test" argument multiple times in this thread to counter any mention of stats or analytics, yet you advocate for E-Rod next to Sid despite the fact it was obvious to anyone watching that he absolutely killed any offensive chances when he was with Sid and Jake.

I thought at first you were just joking, but you seem serious about him as an option. That's just utterly nuts to me, unless your entire motive is to see Crosby fail miserably.

 

[KIRK]

But... they have a meaningful 3rd line with an adequate 3c. If you slot TB there, fine, see how it goes.

I'd want two deals to happen, I don't care what it takes...

Dumoulin/Petts for Rakell.

Some form of (not all) Zucker, Rust, McCann, Tanev, Kapanen, Jankowski, Riikola, Poulin, Lee, 1st 2022 (if 1st is used a 2nd 2021 must come back) or 2 2nds 2021 & 2022 (if the two 2nds are used a 3rd 2021 must come back) and there's more... assets

1 top forward (Zucker/Rust/Kapanen), 1 secondary forward (McCann/Tanev) and fill in from there. Jankowski, Riikola, Poulin, 1st 2022 (switch out what you think, but it's not impossible)

For Forsberg with one season remaining after this, Granlund UFA - 50% retained and 2nd 2021.

Make it happen...

without Zucker/McCann

Guentzel, Crosby, Kapanen
Forsberg, Malkin, Rust
Rakell, Ganlund, Angello
ZAR, Blueger, Tanev

Without Kapanen/McCann

Guentzel, Crosby, Rakell
Forsberg, Malkin, Rust
Zucker, Granlund, Angello
ZAR, Blueger, Tanev

Without Rust/McCann

Guentzel, Crosby, Kapanen
Forsberg, Malkin, Rakell
Zucker, Granlund, Angello
ZAR, Blueger, Tanev

Without Rust/Tanev

Guentzel, Crosby, Kapanen
Forsberg, Malkin, Rakell
Zucker, Granlund, Angello
McCann, Blueger, ZAR

Without Kapanen/Tanev

Guentzel, Crosby, Rust
Forsberg, Malkin, Rakell
Zucker, Granlund, Angello
McCann, Blueger, ZAR

Without Zucker/Tanev

Guentzel, Crosby, Kapanen
Forsberg, Malkin, Rust
Rakell, Granlund, Angello
McCann, Blueger, ZAR

I think it's plausible....It would certainly have to be a hockey trade, and I think Poile would like to have more longer controlled players. It's just down to what you'll have to give up he wants.

What do you want? A cup or the futures?

1800 different combos and not one that's GMR.