Post-Game Talk: Jarry, GMR, and CODY CECI bring their "A" game!

[Honour Over Glory]

Like I said...

Tanev-Crosby-Kapanen could work. If they give it a chance.

 

[KIRK]

Like I said...

Tanev-Crosby-Kapanen could work. If they give it a chance.

So could world peace. If they give it a chance.

It's as likely as Tanev-Crosby-Kapanen, but I digress . . .

 

[Honour Over Glory]

So could world peace. If they give it a chance.

It's as likely as Tanev-Crosby-Kapanen, but I digress . . .

I've already accepted that this team isn't going to win anything significant again until the next new core is revealed in maybe 4-5 years.

 

[KIRK]

I've already accepted that this team isn't going to win anything significant again until the next new core is revealed in maybe 4-5 years.

Well, I can't help you with that, but I can help with that issue with the future missus you were discussing last night with two simple words: SELECTIVE HEARING (the ability to hear a pin drop a mile away but to only be able to hear a third of what your better half is saying from six inches away is the key to a successful, albeit eventful, relationship ).

 

[Turin]

Tanev with Crosby could work but definitely not long term.

 

[Ugene Magic]

1800 different combos and not one that's GMR.

Why does this have to be GMR?

Guentzel, Crosby, Kapanen
Forsberg, Malkin, Rust
Rakell, Ganlund, Angello
ZAR, Blueger, Tanev

I think I made the scenario better. Now if you want to switch Gentzel/Forsberg? Whatev', I don't think you'll have a different impact. The common theme will be Forsberg on the #1 PP unit making both Geno/Sid a Monster again. Not just 5 on 5. So... I'll take either scenario.

 

[KIRK]

Why does this have to be GMR?

Guentzel, Crosby, Kapanen
Forsberg, Malkin, Rust
Rakell, Ganlund, Angello
ZAR, Blueger, Tanev

I think I made the scenario better. Now if you want to switch Gentzel/Forsberg? Whatev', I don't think you'll have a different impact. The common theme will be Forsberg on the #1 PP unit making both Geno/Sid a Monster again. Not just 5 on 5. So... I'll take either scenario.

Well, you came up with a GCR option, so . . .

 

[Ugene Magic]

Well, you came up with a GCR option, so . . .

Well, there's so many that can happen with shrewd moves, nobody said playtime was over. In the end, we all want participation awards.

 

[KIRK]

Well, there's so many that can happen with shrewd moves, nobody said playtime was over. In the end, we all want participation awards.

 

[vodeni]

I wonder what might have been against Montreal IF Sully had reunited GMR and put Zucker with Sid. Perhaps it would've been the same result, but like the argument for trying Sid with the leftovers now, it's hard to imagine the result being worse.

little bit off the topic...but I really think there were many f***ed up things in that series. If you recall Geno' line came out guns blazing, I think he had 8 shots on Price, they were dominating, no luck and than just everyone just got deflated, that was typical example when you needed Herb Brooks with a speech or something like that...This whole narrative could have been different...

 

[Trade]

wrong thread

 

[KIRK]

little bit off the topic...but I really think there were many f***ed up things in that series. If you recall Geno' line came out guns blazing, I think he had 8 shots on Price, they were dominating, no luck and than just everyone just got deflated, that was typical example when you needed Herb Brooks with a speech or something like that...This whole narrative could have been different...

Like 2012 with the Briere offsides?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

OT, but what were the rules about fans in the stands? It looked like they were limited to one group of 3 per row. Were they season ticket holders? Or was it just first come, first serve?

 

[KIRK]

OT, but what were the rules about fans in the stands? It looked like they were limited to one group of 3 per row. Were they season ticket holders? Or was it just first come, first serve?

I believe it was 15% of capacity limit, spread out like you saw last night.

 

[ottawah]

My opinion on Ceci was that he was a vanilla, stay at home guy, a decent 3rd pairing defenseman. But, that was my opinion of his play in Boucher's rigid defensive system in Ottawa. He's got some skilz.

He has shown offensive prowess in the past even moreso than this year. 2019 he was 39th in ES scoring for D men and was 30th in 2016. Playing no PP, lots of PK, and as a shutdown D behind Karlsosn hampered his ability to put up numbers somewhat, so those are relatively impressive numbers.

That said, he had opportunities last year and it just did not work out in the least.

 

[radapex]

Jake and Sid haven't exactly been that dynamic this season after nearly 20 games. That's a pretty big and very recent sample size right there.

Well they are 1st and 2nd on the team in scoring and are both right around a point-per-game, so it's not like that's entirely awful.

 

[Ryder71]

Well they are 1st and 2nd on the team in scoring and are both right around a point-per-game, so it's not like that's entirely awful.

If not being awful is the criteria to meet you're not exactly setting the bar very high. Sid has one, maybe two goals 5 on 5. And that's playing with Jake for 20 games. That's pretty awful actually no matter how you slice it.

 

[radapex]

That’s a fair take. I don’t think them becoming a one line team is out of the realm of possibility. It’s just a matter of Crosby or Malkin leading the way.

I mean, we're already a one line team. We don't have enough pieces to be more than that.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

If not being awful is the criteria to meet you're not exactly setting the bar very high. Sid has one, maybe two goals 5 on 5. And that's playing with Jake for 20 games. That's pretty awful actually no matter how you slice it.

The thing that gets ignored in this is they also spent the first 5 and a half games of the season with Rodrigues on their line. Crosby had 1 goal and 0 assists at even strength in those 5 and a half games with Rodrigues bogging them down.

Since the switch to Rust when Rodrigues got hurt, in 14 and a half games without Rodrigues on that line, Crosby has 3 goals and 8 assists at even strength.

That's at even strength, including OT, mind you. But the fact Crosby's production at ES is 11 points in 14.5 games since he no longer had to drag around Rodrigues, I'd say arguments about his lack of production are incorrect.

 

[radapex]

If not being awful is the criteria to meet you're not exactly setting the bar very high. Sid has one, maybe two goals 5 on 5. And that's playing with Jake for 20 games. That's pretty awful actually no matter how you slice it.

Sid has 1 5v5 goal this season, as does Malkin. Guentzel leads the team with 6, Rust is second with 5, and Zucker + Tanev are tied for third with 4.

For individual expected goals (5v5), Rust leads the way at 5.26. Guentzel is second at 4.01, and Crosby third at 3.03. Malkin clocks in 10th at 1.35, right between Jared McCann and Colton Sceviour.

High danger scoring chances rank about the same. Rust is first at 31, Guentzel second at 30, Crosby third at 14. Malkin is tied for 13th with Jankowski. (Brady Tkachuk leads the league with 38, so 31 is an exceptional number).

So these numbers suggest that Crosby is generating a lot of chances but not finishing them, while Malkin isn't generating chances at all. And it really goes to back the idea that Guentel & Rust are the ones driving their lines.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

 

[radapex]

If this allows us to keep GMR together I'm all for it. I guess I just like KK in a third line role where he can be more comfortable being his own guy. But he and Tanev need to stay together regardless of who the center is. Their speed is overwhelming.

I'm not getting into the Crosby checking role stuff. It's never going to happen with this coach and I don't think it needs to. Look, GMR was an amazing line last year and there are two keys to it. One is Guentzel and Rust just get eachother. Their chemistry is perfect and they understand how to play together. The second key is what Malkin does (and doesn't do) on that line. He's a different player than Crosby and how he develops plays just fits with that pair better. Crosby and Jake are a great combination but with Rust they aren't as good as GMR. Period. So the frustration is there are a ton of options for Crosby's wing that we haven't tried yet that don't leave him with spare parts on a third line. But the coach won't try it because he is beholden to his idea of pairs, beholden to what he's used to, and beholden to catering to Crosby. He's going to sink us just like last year.

What's going to sink us is that we're looking at long-established 4th line wingers (like Tanev) as viable possibilities on Crosby's line because we don't have enough skilled players to even stick a Matt Cooke-like band-aid there. A line of Tanev-Crosby-Kapanen isn't going to be a threat to anyone IMO, and makes us ridiculously easy to shut down because you only have to worry about 1 line.

 

[radapex]

I’ve been saying since the trade KK is an elite third liner. Something always disconnects in his brain when he’s trying to fit into a top six role.

This roster doesn’t afford that luxury though so... there is always hope he finally figures it out as well as he’s still a young guy.

I assume someone else talked about Crosby in a checking line role?

Not sure about the logic there, as that’s TBs role and Crosby is still an 80 point pivot - so that speaks for itself.

I can’t see any reason Crosby can’t center Tanev-KK and see how it goes... those two are a menace with their speed and Crosby seems a more logical fit between them than Malkin IMHO.

The disconnect is that he doesn't have the hockey IQ to be an effective player when he's not the line driver, but he's not skilled enough to be a line driver in a top 6 role.

 

[radapex]

Still surprised Geno had a more decent improved night... be it crowd or line mates... I hope it continues.

Surprised even knowing he is really good with jake and rust... it's been a long time since they got to play together, but whadayaknow... snapped into place like a lego.

That's something that may be overlooked. I recall a lot of PGA Tour players commenting about how difficult they were finding it getting up for tournaments without fans being present, and a lot of guys showed a very sudden improvement once the fans returned. It could very well be that Malkin just wasn't feeling the empty arenas... can't say that I'd blame him.

 

[radapex]

Guentzel - Crosby - Rust is a good line, but it does not shape our system the way GMR does.

Guentzel plays an east west game with Crosby that is about him finding holes in the oppositions coverage and capitalizing while Crosby and Rust cycle.

GMR plays a north south game which is about stretching the ice and the oppositions coverage and dominating the team from a 200ft level.

GMR just looks so exhausting to play against where as Guentzel - Crosby - Rust just looks like another example of Crosby with good line mates.

The way Crosby plays is possibly more exhausting that Malkin's north-south style, but it's equally exhausting (and very difficult for a lot of guys) to play. It's why most wingers haven't worked with him -- and I don't mean just with the Pens. When he's played for Team Canada, he's typically had the same wingers every tournament because most of the guys don't care to play with him. IIRC Corey Perry described him as impossible to play on a line with because of the physical and mental drain of trying to keep up.

 

[radapex]

Having BART means Crosby doesn’t get Tanev, but some leftover spaz like McCann, who never meshes with either top pivot.

So I doubt Crosby would pout, but that doesn’t mean he won’t struggle either.

Again, Sullivan did break up the Crosby line to help Malkin and gave him Rust.

However, it waters down the lines, even though it’s meant to help your other star pivot.

We haven’t seen Crosby play with KK and Tanev together on a line though, and I’d at least like to see them together for a spell with GMR.

Those guys play with a shit ton of speed and grit, and I’d think that suits Crosby’s game more than Malkin.

The question I'd have there is whether Crosby still has the speed to keep up with them. I can't remember the last time he showed any significant burst of speed, or ability to out-stake anyone else.