Post-Game Talk: Jarry, GMR, and CODY CECI bring their "A" game!

[canadianguy77]

Kap is a top 6 winger in so many ways. But he is being used to function as a secondary winger for two centers that want to control the flow. He is used as a primary driver and puck handler then you have a winger who can score from just about anywhere. His speed off the wing allows him to drive the focus to him and he has options from there. Sid needs to get him the puck as a scorer and not a complement.

Did you notice how aggressive the forwards on L2 were being in the defensive end tonight? It gave me flashbacks of how the team played after Sullivan first came to Pittsburgh.

They forced the Philly dmen to bobble pucks at the blueline and hurry passes and they pounced on the loose pucks and quickly went the other way. It’s how the entire team should be playing. We have the wingers to play that type of game again, but Sullivan wants them to collapse and play “safe.” We’ll see if L2 plays that way again next game or if it was just a one-off.

 

[radapex]

5v5 possession isn’t everything. Crosby’s GF% is better with Kappy then without.

But every other stat, including xGF%, tanks which suggests the GF% almost certainly won't last.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

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Basically, Geno works with or without Guentzel. He also works with or without Rust. He's typically above 50% in any combination, meaning that no matter who he plays with he drives possession. Sid has been the opposite; his numbers are good with Guentzel, but without him they're pretty bad.

And yet, all we see is people crapping all over Geno.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

In Sully’s defense, talking about pairs or trying to make that approach work is also because he doesn’t have the horses to do trios. If he had two explosive such, you’d never hear about pairs. While he certainly tilts towards Sid whenever he feels a change is needed, he knows he cannot leave Geno without support for long. The same will be true for Sid even if Sully gives GMR a chance to stick.

True, but that's why he gets paid the big bucks. When something isn't working and one of your superstars is struggling and two of the four lines are terrible and the other two aren't that good, you need solutions. His have been to stack the top line and let Malkin figure it out. I can't think of a single time when Sullivan didn't place Crosby well above Malkin in terms of support. Hell, Malkin's line had a good game a couple games ago and Sullivan blew the whole team up after one bad period where L1 wasn't very good.

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

there's just that small matter of the x vs the no-x with Simon and Erod.

That said: I know we all hate reunions but like...Dom Simon is a good hockey player.

Look at all the points he's racking up this season!

Honestly he would be fine here if he wasn't stapled to Sids hip

 

[Honour Over Glory]

there's just that small matter of the x vs the no-x with Simon and Erod.

That said: I know we all hate reunions but like...Dom Simon is a good hockey player.

Let me clear...I f***ing dislike Dominik Simon.

But if the Flames would do that deal for Sam Lafferty, I would do it.

Ideally, I'd want neither.

 

[Gurglesons]

But every other stat, including xGF%, tanks which suggests the GF% almost certainly won't last.

Kapanen doesn’t seem to shoot very often. I’m sure that frustrated the f*** out of Sullivan, but he’s not someone that peppers goalies. That’s going to significantly effect his advanced analytics.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

Just for reference, WOWY numbers have GMR from last season and GCR from this season as very even.
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Advanced stats don't tell the story of how that line tilted the ice and provided momentum in key moments. They dominated the eye test and scored key goals. They were dynamic and that changes a team and has an effect that can't be measured. GCR never looked great, let alone exceptional.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Did you notice how aggressive the forwards on L2 were being in the defensive end tonight? It gave me flashbacks of how the team played after Sullivan first came to Pittsburgh.

They forced the Philly dmen to bobble pucks at the blueline and hurry passes and they pounced on the loose pucks and quickly went the other way. It’s how the entire team should be playing. We have the wingers to play that type of game again, but Sullivan wants them to collapse and play “safe.” We’ll see if L2 plays that way again next game or if it was just a one-off.

So true. Cross-sport but I don't care. Prevent defense and collapsing will still end up with the puck in your net. Pressure and have an actual presence in your own zone and you prevent marathon possession and end up in a much better position to counterattack.

 

[radapex]

Crosby’s CF% and xGF% has looked great with Rodrigues and Simon the past two years also.

xGF% seems wonky this year anyways.

xGF% is always going to be pretty iffy with a small sample size. Sid & Rodrigues have 72 minutes played together 5v5, which is quite a small sample size. As far as Sid & Simon go, the sample size is larger (390 minutes) but their xGF% was 50.06% which isn't even good, let alone great; it means they're giving up as many goals as they're scoring (and their GF% was even lower) so the best thing you could say is that they have no actual impact on the game.

 

[canadianguy77]

I just have a very extreme reaction to seeing Pettersson on this roster.

The guys moves like he’s 250 lbs. There’s really no excuse as to why he takes so long to pivot along the walls. And he has exactly zero acceleration. If he’s still with the team in the summer, they need to send him to multiple power skating camps. And also dose him with a few cycles of peds.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

It's just so bizarre that this team plays one of its best games of the season, not even just the production, but on both sides of the puck and special teams (PK) and it's without Crosby.

Same as last season during December & parts of January.

Not sure what to make of it.

 

[ncm7772]

I thought he was coming back before playoffs

Others may have already replied, if so, disregard. He was only announced "as longer term". So who knows how long that will be.

A win thursday would be huge. We got to string a few together here especially against teams directly in our way in trying to make the post season.

Yes. 100%. And they've got to be in regulation. The OT/SO wins are certainly better than losses, but they're giving away WAY too many loser points. I have no doubt their playoff seeding (if they make it) or simply whether or not they qualify for the playoffs will be decided by three points or less. So yeah, they're big.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

The guys moves like he’s 250 lbs. There’s really no excuse as to why he takes so long to pivot along the walls. And he has exactly zero acceleration. If he’s still with the team in the summer, they need to send him to multiple power skating camps. And also dose him with a few cycles of peds.

Or dump him and focus that attention on POJ who actually has immense potential to actually let that sort of thing absorb and get better.

 

[AlphaMikeFoxtrots]

At first glance I thought you were making fun of him for spelling winger wrong. Man that would have been hysterical

Given the Pens had just gone up 3-1, I felt it best not to disturb the force in any way and turned my attention elsewhere until the game was over

 

[Gurglesons]

xGF% is always going to be pretty iffy with a small sample size. Sid & Rodrigues have 72 minutes played together 5v5, which is quite a small sample size. As far as Sid & Simon go, the sample size is larger (390 minutes) but their xGF% was 50.06% which isn't even good, let alone great; it means they're giving up as many goals as they're scoring (and their GF% was even lower) so the best thing you could say is that they have no actual impact on the game.

I just mean xGF% looks weird across the league.

 

[radapex]

Advanced stats don't tell the story of how that line tilted the ice and provided momentum in key moments. They dominated the eye test and scored key goals. They were dynamic and that changes a team and has an effect that can't be measured. GCR never looked great, let alone exceptional.

GCR looked excellent the minute they were put together for the same reason GMR looks fantastic -- because the combination of Guentzel and Rust can drive the play and make it so Crosby/Malkin doesn't have to do everything themselves. Which is great because, at their ages, Crosby and Malkin can't do everything themselves anymore... but it's not great because there's only 2 of them, not 4.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

GCR looked excellent the minute they were put together for the same reason GMR looks fantastic -- because the combination of Guentzel and Rust can drive the play and make it so Crosby/Malkin doesn't have to do everything themselves. Which is great because, at their ages, Crosby and Malkin can't do everything themselves anymore... but it's not great because there's only 2 of them, not 4.

GCR looked good for a couple of games.
GMR looks good, period.

They need to find 2 wingers that fit Crosby and allow GMR to stay together.

 

[ChaosAgent]

GCR looked excellent the minute they were put together for the same reason GMR looks fantastic -- because the combination of Guentzel and Rust can drive the play and make it so Crosby/Malkin doesn't have to do everything themselves. Which is great because, at their ages, Crosby and Malkin can't do everything themselves anymore... but it's not great because there's only 2 of them, not 4.

I genuinely think Zucker has it in him to be a play-driver, but coming to the Pens is intimidating. Everyone wants to play with Sid/Geno but then you come here and there's the implicit expectation that you gotta get them the puck all the time. They are living legends still with their original club.

Unlike Rust with his 2016 heroics or Jake with his 2017-2018 playoff demigod-ness or Kessel with his past All star stuff...he didn't have the confidence to be his own guy out there.

Would Kapanen have really tried that move if he was on a line with Sid?

 

[canadianguy77]

It's just so bizarre that this team plays one of its best games of the season, not even just the production, but on both sides of the puck and special teams (PK) and it's without Crosby.

Same as last season during December & parts of January.

Not sure what to make of it.

Eh… we probably lose tonight’s game more often than not, but Jarry held down the fort.

The team played well without Geno last season too. So Im not sure at what you’re getting at? Are you suggesting that they trade one of 87 or 71? Maybe there isn’t enough room for the both of them? IF that’s what you’re suggesting then I strongly disagree.

 

[radapex]

GCR looked good for a couple of games.
GMR looks good, period.

They need to find 2 wingers that fit Crosby and allow GMR to stay together.

They're gonna have to move cap to do that. And probably extra assets like picks as well. Not an easy task, and only puts the team in a worse position to rebuild from.

 

[Tender Rip]

GCR looked excellent the minute they were put together for the same reason GMR looks fantastic

Because they immediately connected against Washington (just like we will look at this game and say that GMR were really good). Most judge on the immediate effect, but what matters is if there is consistency in performance and results.

I do not care about a Sid or Malkin line having strong Corsi or "advanced" metrics if it doesn't mean that they're consistently looking like being about to score. Because when they look like that, they tilt the ice and the rest of the team follows. I saw little of that with GCR this season and a lot of it from GMR last season. No matter what the advanced stats say. Your links are the same Empoleon used earlier in the season, and to me it remains nuts to compare.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Eh… we probably lose tonight’s game more often than not, but Jarry held down the fort.

The team played well without Geno last season too. So Im not sure at what you’re getting at? Are you suggesting that they trade one of 87 or 71? Maybe there isn’t enough room for the both of them? IF that’s what you’re suggesting then I strongly disagree.

Jarry played well (like he has been since the Flyers games early in the season)
PK played well
We had a 1st line performing like a 1st line

I am not suggesting moving either, but rather that if they keep trying to pander to both lines instead of sorting out 1 and then figuring the 2nd line out, it allows them a more focused solution to fix. Instead, they're splitting the difference and making it an issue for 2 lines and that will just make a bigger mess out of things.

You have 2 wingers that work very well with Malkin.
You can split them and put 1 each with Sid and Geno and have 2 lines that sort of perform and then keep swapping parts, or you can put the 2 that work very well with Malkin, together, and then focus on getting 2 that work with Crosby.

 

[radapex]

Jarry played well (like he has been since the Flyers games early in the season)
PK played well
We had a 1st line performing like a 1st line

I am not suggesting moving either, but rather that if they keep trying to pander to both lines instead of sorting out 1 and then figuring the 2nd line out, it allows them a more focused solution to fix. Instead, they're splitting the difference and making it an issue for 2 lines and that will just make a bigger mess out of things.

You have 2 wingers that work very well with Malkin.
You can split them and put 1 each with Sid and Geno and have 2 lines that sort of perform and then keep swapping parts, or you can put the 2 that work very well with Malkin, together, and then focus on getting 2 that work with Crosby.

Outside of Guentzel and Rust, the only wingers that have every really worked with Crosby been Kunitz and Dupuis - and that was at a point where the was the most dominant player in hockey. But Sid is notoriously difficult to play with, always has been; we could make 100 trades to get wingers for him and I'll bet the vast majority are failures.

 

[canadianguy77]

Jarry played well (like he has been since the Flyers games early in the season)
PK played well
We had a 1st line performing like a 1st line

I am not suggesting moving either, but rather that if they keep trying to pander to both lines instead of sorting out 1 and then figuring the 2nd line out, it allows them a more focused solution to fix. Instead, they're splitting the difference and making it an issue for 2 lines and that will just make a bigger mess out of things.

You have 2 wingers that work very well with Malkin.
You can split them and put 1 each with Sid and Geno and have 2 lines that sort of perform and then keep swapping parts, or you can put the 2 that work very well with Malkin, together, and then focus on getting 2 that work with Crosby.

See I’m not so sure that this was even that good of a game. I feel like Philly pretty much carried the play for most of the 1st and 3rd periods. We probably should’ve won the 1st 2 games we played against them at the beginning of the season but Jarry kind of shit the bed. Tonight Philly probably should’ve walked out with 2 points but Tristan had himself a game.

Malkins line had 4 or 5 real solid shifts, but then they had a few where they were hemmed in their zone. Geno had a lazy penalty and a few lazy giveaways. If I’m taking anything away from tonight, it’s that the Tanev, McCann, Kapanen line won the game.

I dunno, maybe I need to rewatch the game, because I didn’t see anything that screamed to me that L1 was any more effective with Geno as the pivot than if 87 had been the center. This was Philly and there is a lot more ice out there than there would be if it was the Islanders.