Post-Game Talk: Jarry, GMR, and CODY CECI bring their "A" game!

[Ryder71]

Hart gets beat between the legs an awful lot. His five hole must look huge to the Penguins.

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

You have iron stomach

That or its my cultural drinking background being Irish, Scottish, German and Russian. With some Welsh in there

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

Hart gets beat between the legs an awful lot. His five hole must look huge to the Penguins.

Gotta wonder if they are gonna try to coach the guys to shoot there, like other teams being coached to shoot high glove on Murr

 

[SEALBound]

Patrick was consensus #1 before his injury. His development really went off the rails due to health problems. Kinda sad.

Indeed...but imagine taking Patrick and then seeing Heiskanen, Makar, Pettersson, and Glass going next. Woof.

 

[SEALBound]

Just seen Jarry finally reached .900 save% after this win, almost at 3.00 GAA too.

Good for him. Imagine if Jarry had started the year like this. The standings would look very different IMHO.

 

[Ryder71]

Gotta wonder if they are gonna try to coach the guys to shoot there, like other teams being coached to shoot high glove on Murr

That would make sense so.... probably not.

 

[radapex]

Malkin looked like Malkin because he's at that point in his career where he needs the right help to have that kind of impact. You set him up to succeed like you set up Sid to succeed, and lo and behold . . .

Jarry looked like Jarry because they played in front of him like they played in front of him when Sid was out. Smart plays. Structure. Support. Doing their damndest to protect the house. Tying up sticks.

Almost like there's a lesson in this . . . you set up Malkin and Jarry to carry you, and they'll help to carry you.

The problem is that Sid is also at the point in his career where he needs that help, but there's not enough if it for both of them - so you get the two top 6 wingers (Guentzel and Rust) split so that each C has one.

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

I watch a great game and then read these:







And wonder what the F game some people watched...

Don't give a shit about the rest but I'm not in favor of breaking up GMR. It balances the team. I don't like the idea of Kapanen on the top line, nor would I put Tanev there as a first option. But if it means we keep GMR then it's better than an ok Crosby line, a shit second line, an ok third line (BART is not that impressive), and a shit fourth line. At some point something has to give. It's all moot anyway, Sullivan will put Guentzel back with Crosby as soon as he comes back.

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

I just threw a Modelo into the mix tonight and all I know now is that Kapanen is happenen and i'm here for it. Might go hit the excercise bike and throw some anime on the tele.

Kapanen seems like a lethal weapon to have on the 3rd line. But I really want him to work out with Sid

 

[Tender Rip]

------- I couldn't watch this one due to early meetings.

Purely based on the highlights package on NHL.com and stats, I would caution that we cannot get too high yet when the win required Jarry to be that good and the PK to be that effective.
Nor is it time to say that GMR will carry us to the promised land based on one game. Replay this a couple of times, and we will do so this week, and with similar shot and penalty distribution we don't likely get a lot of points.

BUT.... as one of those zealous "Malkin still has it, and the problem is that Sully does not allow him to be the flow-player he is, and doesn't give him the trust or responsibility he craves", it is heartening to read so many messages here on how that line looked re-united.

As KIRK mentioned elsewhere, and I am sure many have agreed with, IF this is something they carry on with, you really have to keep it going no matter what Sid (or Sully) would ideally like.
At least you have to try to see, for the good of the team, if Sid is better than Geno at making lemonade of that situation.

But again, we will see the Flyers again shortly, and we might sing a very different tune if special teams are back to their sad normal; we do not get secondary scoring like this and if Flyers get GMR more under control.
Because as I understand comments, it was how they looked that give us comfort. That line getting one goal without being scored on is not in itself evidence of last years' magic being back. But at least it provides hope and is something you can build on.

 

[dogthateats]

I thought Currie looked more useful than some of the other guys we have had on the 4th line this year. Way too small of a sample size, but wanted to give him props.

 

[ChaosAgent]

------- I couldn't watch this one due to early meetings.

Purely based on the highlights package on NHL.com and stats, I would caution that we cannot get too high yet when the win required Jarry to be that good and the PK to be that effective.
Nor is it time to say that GMR will carry us to the promised land based on one game. Replay this a couple of times, and we will do so this week, and with similar shot and penalty distribution we don't likely get a lot of points.

BUT.... as one of those zealous "Malkin still has it, and the problem is that Sully does not allow him to be the flow-player he is, and doesn't give him the trust or responsibility he craves", it is heartening to read so many messages here on how that line looked re-united.

As KIRK mentioned elsewhere, and I am sure many have agreed with, IF this is something they carry on with, you really have to keep it going no matter what Sid (or Sully) would ideally like.
At least you have to try to see, for the good of the team, if Sid is better than Geno at making lemonade of that situation.

But again, we will see the Flyers again shortly, and we might sing a very different tune if special teams are back to their sad normal; we do not get secondary scoring like this and if Flyers get GMR more under control.
Because as I understand comments, it was how they looked that give us comfort. That line getting one goal without being scored on is not in itself evidence of last years' magic being back. But at least it provides hope and is something you can build on.

It was totally how we looked.

Not just GMR either. With Crosby out guys play...freer. Kapanen. McCann (though he boofed a play which nearly ended up in our net), Ceci, etc. Angello and whatshisface on the 4th line. ZAR was quietly good again.

The PK looked better though a lot of that was Jarry. We got penalized a lot and on some very, very soft calls and Lafferty idiocy as well. Outside of the penalties the Flyers didn't generate a ton. They outshot us in the first but I didn't think we got remotely outplayed. The PP soared.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

It was totally how we looked.

Not just GMR either. With Crosby out guys play...freer. Kapanen. McCann (though he boofed a play which nearly ended up in our net), Ceci, etc. Angello and whatshisface on the 4th line. ZAR was quietly good again.

The PK looked better though a lot of that was Jarry. We got penalized a lot and on some very, very soft calls and Lafferty idiocy as well. Outside of the penalties the Flyers didn't generate a ton. They outshot us in the first but I didn't think we got remotely outplayed. The PP soared.

The answer is simple.



We trade Crosby for Eichel.

 

[radapex]

Well, to borrow an argument from other threads, Sid should be able to make that work if he's still elite.

He isn't. Neither is Geno. Time has caught up to both. Hence the problem... we've got two high-paid Cs that need help on their lines, but only two top 6 wingers to help them.

 

[Tacitus Kilgore]

I wonder how tonight's team would've faired against the Isles in the shutout game

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I wonder how tonight's team would've faired against the Isles in the shutout game

GMR generated more chances in this game than the entire team did vs the Isles in that one.

 

[radapex]

except you get a better Geno...which is important...probably more important than having a L2 that doesn’t work

Instead of having a L2 that doesn't work, we'd have a L1 that doesn't work.

That's a fairly significant sample size @ 375 minutes, and Crosby is under 50% in every category.

Pulling the same data with Crosby + Kapanen and, though the sample size is smaller, we can see that they shouldn't work and it's likely a statistical anomaly that it has worked so far.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

He isn't. Neither is Geno. Time has caught up to both. Hence the problem... we've got two high-paid Cs that need help on their lines, but only two top 6 wingers to help them.

You're right and also wrong.

We had 4 top 6 wingers, 3 currently because 1 is injured. Kapanen, Rust, and Guentzel are the healthy ones, with the option of McCann possibly filling in until Hextall finally pulls the trigger. What is clear is that GMR still has the magic and wasn't the flash in the pan that Sullivan assumed it was last year like HBK.

Crosby has shown chemistry with Zucker. Crosby also showed chemistry with Kapanen. I mean even if you think that maybe Tanev should stay up as the LW, that still works with how Crosby plays. The issue with Jake and Sid is that Jake has to change to play with Sid. Jake doesn't change to play with Malkin, you see the Guentzel that was blossoming after the 40 goals and his season last year when he's away from Crosby. We've seen it over and over again for over 15yrs that players at times, will force themselves into a role that isn't always natural to them, to play with Sid. It's not always the case for Geno for whatever reason. In Geno's case, he likes players to play their game if they compliment his game or he's found ways to work with it like Jokinen's, Neal's, Talbot's, Fedotenko's, Rust's, etc.

Guentzel, Malkin, Rust
Tanev, Crosby, Kapanen
McCann, Blueger, ZAR
TRADE FOR COUSINS - O'Connor, Cousins, Sceviour

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Instead of having a L2 that doesn't work, we'd have a L1 that doesn't work.

View attachment 402651

That's a fairly significant sample size @ 375 minutes, and Crosby is under 50% in every category.

Pulling the same data with Crosby + Kapanen and, though the sample size is smaller, we can see that they shouldn't work and it's likely a statistical anomaly that it has worked so far.

View attachment 402653

Yeah, good sample size, the year he had a hernia. Sid might need Jake, but that combo literally doesn't move the needle enough in the right way to dominate the way GMR does.

Do one for Jake's numbers with Geno last year.

 

[radapex]

You're right and also wrong.

We had 4 top 6 wingers, 3 currently because 1 is injured. Kapanen, Rust, and Guentzel are the healthy ones, with the option of McCann possibly filling in until Hextall finally pulls the trigger. What is clear is that GMR still has the magic and wasn't the flash in the pan that Sullivan assumed it was last year like HBK.

Crosby has shown chemistry with Zucker. Crosby also showed chemistry with Kapanen. I mean even if you think that maybe Tanev should stay up as the LW, that still works with how Crosby plays. The issue with Jake and Sid is that Jake has to change to play with Sid. Jake doesn't change to play with Malkin, you see the Guentzel that was blossoming after the 40 goals and his season last year when he's away from Crosby. We've seen it over and over again for over 15yrs that players at times, will force themselves into a role that isn't always natural to them, to play with Sid. It's not always the case for Geno for whatever reason. In Geno's case, he likes players to play their game if they compliment his game or he's found ways to work with it like Jokinen's, Neal's, Talbot's, Fedotenko's, Rust's, etc.

Guentzel, Malkin, Rust
Tanev, Crosby, Kapanen
McCann, Blueger, ZAR
TRADE FOR COUSINS - O'Connor, Cousins, Sceviour

Kapenen is not a top 6 winger. He may be some day, but not now. As far as "Crosby also showed chemistry with Kapanen" goes, take a look at the WOWY numbers I posted above. They're getting killed in 5v5 possession playing together, and both are significantly better away from the other.

 

[radapex]

Yeah, good sample size, the year he had a hernia. Sid might need Jake, but that combo literally doesn't move the needle enough in the right way to dominate the way GMR does.

Do one for Jake's numbers with Geno last year.

Basically, Geno works with or without Guentzel. He also works with or without Rust. He's typically above 50% in any combination, meaning that no matter who he plays with he drives possession. Sid has been the opposite; his numbers are good with Guentzel, but without him they're pretty bad.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Kapenen is not a top 6 winger. He may be some day, but not now. As far as "Crosby also showed chemistry with Kapanen" goes, take a look at the WOWY numbers I posted above. They're getting killed in 5v5 possession playing together, and both are significantly better away from the other.

It goes back to the issue we've all been seeing.

Instead of having 1 insanely dominant line and figuring out the right mix for the 2nd, we have 2 lines that under perform and we get to complain for threads upon threads.

Edit:

So say we move McCann and Dumoulin and try to land another winger, it positions this team to do something like...

Guentzel, Malkin, Rust
______, Crosby, _____
Tanev, Blueger, Kapanen

 

[Pittsburgh1776]

It was nice to see a functioning Malkin again, he looked good tonight. He has had a couple other good games so I'm not ready to say he's back. I still think he's not in top shape and this might be as good as he looks this year. You can't make up for lost time during the season. But he was a lot better than I thought he would be and so was the line. Two of the three haven't been playing well but by the end of the game they were regaining the chemistry they had last year. The line works because Malkin gets out of the way and then reappears when he needs to to support or direct the puck to a different area and create space. Crosby is too much the center of what happens on the line and while he has great success with Guentzel, as a line they aren't as good as GMR. Sullivan's pet idea of 'pairs' just makes us mediocre throughout the lineup with Sid and Geno not being the players they were.

But that's as far as it goes for me. I know what Sullivan is going to do and I have no confidence that he will put together the rest of the lineup in the best way. There are so many combinations that haven't been tried this year and he no longer has the flexibility or humility to go against his inclinations. This happens after 6 years and it happens to every coach.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Kapenen is not a top 6 winger. He may be some day, but not now. As far as "Crosby also showed chemistry with Kapanen" goes, take a look at the WOWY numbers I posted above. They're getting killed in 5v5 possession playing together, and both are significantly better away from the other.

Kapanen isn't a top 6 winger with Crosby.

To the shock and horror of the idiots on the main board, Crosby doesn't magically make wingers into Andy Hilbert/Colby Armstrong level of success.

 

[radapex]

I prefer the way Sid plays when he doesn't have a lot of wing support and he has to be selfish and I like the way Geno gets up for games when he has the better wingers. I'll take Sid not scoring as much but allowing Geno to play in the offensive zone with better wingers all night.

The problem is that I don't think Sid can play that way anymore. He needs help just like Geno does.