James Wisniewski
- Thread starter Xoggz22
- Start date
SuperGenius
For Duty & Humanity!
- Mar 18, 2008
- 4,639
- 199
Florida's 2nd rounder is pretty much a late 1st. The Demers 1 should be changed to a late 2nd to make it more even probably. You guys should watch Demers and Kulikov play some games.
You guys have issues with the NJ one? Its 2 NHL defensemen for 1. Andy Greene is a better overall defenseman than Wiz. Way smarter player. You say no, I say yes. Larsson is also in the NHL while Erixon is not. It'd would be trading 2 offensive d men for 2 more well rounded guys. The value is pretty close and it probably makes both teams better.
Just for discussion sake what are some trades you would accept for Wisniewski? And they cant be completely in our favor.....
EspenK
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2011
- 15,842
- 4,445
While I am usually in favor of trading I don't see Wiz as a guy we should trade. Demote him to a bit less playing time and more of a 3rd pair guy okay but I don't think we have a viable substitute for him on the pp (which I know you disagree with) and he was an overall even. So I guess my answer is no one unless it contains a guy who can fulfill his role on the pp. And if that is the case, why bother? And if he is as bad as you make him out to be why would other teams want him?
One way I might consider trading him is if the return included a top 6 forward and a comparable D-man offset by us adding a F to the deal.
Double-Shift Lasse
Just post better
Why not make a "Value of" thread on the mains if you're this interested? Lay it out and ask what other teams' fans would be willing to offer?
cslebn
80 forever
- Feb 15, 2012
- 2,802
- 1,366
Double-Shift Lasse
Just post better
The mains is crazy. People will ask for our first to take him
Fortunately, no one on the CBJ forum is certifiable.
I'll make this easy. I have no interest in trading Wiz and have no desire to discuss his value.
He's entering the value portion of his contract. We've already paid 20 of the 33 million half way through the contract.
He's entering the value portion of his contract. We've already paid 20 of the 33 million half way through the contract.
So I'm ignorant because of my ideas of Wisniewski's play and his value but I can't get 2-3 examples of names or trades from any of you that you think is fair "value" for him.
I think you guys know that you really don't know how to gauge his true value
I think you guys know that you really don't know how to gauge his true value
Double-Shift Lasse
Just post better
As we know, there are known knowns; there are things that we know that we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, the ones we don't know we don't know.
The mains is crazy. People will ask for our first to take him
And some of you guys would be asking for OEL.
Wiz's value will shift dramatically from team to team. All I will say is that most teams would be happy to have him. His salary is reasonable for his production, even with his injury issues.
Names and trade ideas are just idiotic in that they don't prove anything. It's just another reason for you or someone else to jump on and tell each other how big of idiots they are. As soon as someone goes outside of what you think a reasonable value is (which is horrifically low) you'll just tell them how stupid they are. I'm firmly convinced that is really all you want.
You really are latched on to this bone aren't you? You are free to hate him with a fiery passion and we're free to disagree with your assessment. Most of your input has been opinion based on your observation. As far as I can tell you haven't provided facts or stats to back your opinions.
Wiz is far from perfect, but he's far better than you make him out to be. Most of us already have reservations with him. You aren't going to convince us he's useless and should be moved for a bag of pucks, so get over it already.
Fro
Cheatin on CBJ w TBL
based on my post over here http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=86572049&postcount=926
the line i found interesting is:
James Wisniewski: Every player, with the exception of Gaborik, Prout, and Savard, is better when James Wisniewski is on the ice
the line i found interesting is:
James Wisniewski: Every player, with the exception of Gaborik, Prout, and Savard, is better when James Wisniewski is on the ice
That's what happens when you have to pick your game up to 110% and cover for him haha. But really.
Can somebody explain to me what Corsi is? I don't agree with it, I'm just not sure what I'm not agreeing with.
Can somebody explain to me what Corsi is? I don't agree with it, I'm just not sure what I'm not agreeing with.
Double-Shift Lasse
Just post better
I mean just a quick look at the numbers in relation to certain pairs and players shows that something is clearly off. If this list proves something positive for Wiz, what does it tell you for JJ and Comeau?
I just really have no idea how people come up with these numbers. With all the different things that happen during the year, all the different real "stats" that are tracked.... How does a player finish +0.1??
I just really have no idea how people come up with these numbers. With all the different things that happen during the year, all the different real "stats" that are tracked.... How does a player finish +0.1??
Fro
Cheatin on CBJ w TBL
Haha I actually clicked that expecting the answer to pop up in front of me. In my defense, don't most of you know more than google anyway?
EspenK
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2011
- 15,842
- 4,445
I too am baffled by these stats. And I can't possibly see how they can be used in a game.
Richards: Dubi get in there. Oh wait, I forgot Prout's on the ice and it is a neutral zone face-off-Is there one of them Corsi things for that? Oh, Oh here comes Crosby,Dubi get out there you kicked his butt in the playoffs.Was your Corsi good?
I mean c'mon. Put me in the crowd that says all of this mumbo jumbo is just that.
Richards: Dubi get in there. Oh wait, I forgot Prout's on the ice and it is a neutral zone face-off-Is there one of them Corsi things for that? Oh, Oh here comes Crosby,Dubi get out there you kicked his butt in the playoffs.Was your Corsi good?
I mean c'mon. Put me in the crowd that says all of this mumbo jumbo is just that.
Fro
Cheatin on CBJ w TBL
its not an exact science...but there's something to playing matchups and HCTR and GMJK are both pretty good with getting the right guys on the ice in the right situations...
It's just analytics. There is value and it's hardly "mumbo jumbo". It would be difficult to use in the situation you described. However it can certainly be used to build trends on certain players. If you have a good Corsi with mostly defensive zone starts, that's usually a good thing - although I think some take too much stock in the data. Data can certainly be skewed based on quality of team and linemates.
It's just another tool.
Is Wiz better than what people make him out to be on here? Hell yes.
Mayor Bee
Registered User
- Dec 29, 2008
- 18,087
- 535
The Art Howe crowd
Art Howe basically was a bot that followed whatever instructions were fed into him. A friend who's an Oakland fan called him "Moses", as in he would wander around until a clear sign from a higher power told him exactly what to do.
A big part of why I admire Earl Weaver is that he was the first to really use analytics in baseball, but he allowed for a certain amount of intuition to enter into the picture. There's a story from Terry Pluto, who was hanging around Weaver for the purpose of writing a book. Jim Palmer was on the mound, and Weaver was setting his lineup and vocalizing his various computations. The best lineup he had would have three particular outfielders, but he had to change that because "Palmer will kill me if he has those three". He had considered that Palmer was allowing line drives against multiple opposing hitters for that day, plus the lack of speed among those three outfielders that would cause more to drop in for hits, and that it was unlikely they'd produce enough additional offense to offset the loss of a (likely) run or two.
It took him an hour to set the lineup, going through hundreds of possible variables before finalizing it. Contrast that to Art Howe, whose lineup (with Jeremy "Glacial Speed" Giambi in the outfield) was set from the front office and passed onto him.
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