Fro
Cheatin on CBJ w TBL
good little piece here by Nick Biss
http://bshockey.com/2014/james-wisniewski-and-the-big-mistake-season-review.html
http://bshockey.com/2014/james-wisniewski-and-the-big-mistake-season-review.html
James Wisniewski
- Thread starter Xoggz22
- Start date
You have to mention zone starts and quality of the opposition. He didn't mention them at all. IMO you should never present Corsi numbers without first mentioning usage. At least he links to Coach's excellent roles of defensemen piece which is all about usage.
And is he actually saying Wiz was better than Jack in the playoffs? That's ridiculous.
Hard for me to disagree with much more than I did reading through that. Pretty much the only thing I do agree with is Wiz is definitely prone to the "big mistakeS" during any given game. And thats something that I think isn't looked at as important as it really is on here. It says in there that a "big mistake" is what usually leads to a goal against. Well actually, it says THE play that leads to a goal against as if there's no such thing as a good offensive play or luck involved in anything on the ice. Ok. It (biss via dellow)tries to pass off the idea that we shouldn't focus as much on the "big mistake" and just overall attempts to gloss over the fact that these "big mistakes" ARE what lead to goals against. Again, a point I try to get across is that a goal against is just as important as a goal for. Or do we get some extra "corsi points" at the end of the year I don't know about?? Even for an offensive defenseman, their 1st job is to DEFEND. 5.5 is way too much for a PP specialist on a team with other capable offensive defenseman.
4 of those guys on that list aren't on Wiz's level when it comes to total impact. Subban and Weber shouldn't even be in the same conversation. The defensive play of Girardi and Seabrook throw them above Wiz also IMO as they're really not much worse offensively than Wiz. I value Girardi's D more, obviously. Would you not accept Girardi or Seabrook for Wisniewski?? And I really don't know if our team is any better with a Wiz-Murray pairing than it would be with a Orpik/MacDonald-Murray pairing.
Then it talks about how Wiz is a monster in "possession" and that its LIKELY that more possession leads to giveways and mistakes. "Big mistakes"? He also relates "possession" to shots, and shots to goals. Conveniently leaving out anything powerplay related. He was NEVER "easily the best player on the ice at any given time" and will NEVER be the best mentor for Murray. Not last year, this year, ever.
Then it goes on to hit a whole new level of trash. If you don't see Wisniewski the player the same way I do, or look at our defensive situation going forward the same as I do, fine. But this Biss fellow is WAY OFF when it comes to real life on ice impact when it comes to Johnson and Wiz and there's no way any of you can agree with him. These "advanced numbers", to me, prove nothing other than they cant be trusted. He says how Johnson's "vision and decisions" make him pause and yet Wiz "usually knows what to do with the puck". The ****ing piece is titled, "James Wisniewski and the Big Mistake"!! Then it ends questioning how bad we'd be without Wiz and how much better we'd be without Johnson.
At least I made it INTO the Wiz thread, eh?
4 of those guys on that list aren't on Wiz's level when it comes to total impact. Subban and Weber shouldn't even be in the same conversation. The defensive play of Girardi and Seabrook throw them above Wiz also IMO as they're really not much worse offensively than Wiz. I value Girardi's D more, obviously. Would you not accept Girardi or Seabrook for Wisniewski?? And I really don't know if our team is any better with a Wiz-Murray pairing than it would be with a Orpik/MacDonald-Murray pairing.
Then it talks about how Wiz is a monster in "possession" and that its LIKELY that more possession leads to giveways and mistakes. "Big mistakes"? He also relates "possession" to shots, and shots to goals. Conveniently leaving out anything powerplay related. He was NEVER "easily the best player on the ice at any given time" and will NEVER be the best mentor for Murray. Not last year, this year, ever.
Then it goes on to hit a whole new level of trash. If you don't see Wisniewski the player the same way I do, or look at our defensive situation going forward the same as I do, fine. But this Biss fellow is WAY OFF when it comes to real life on ice impact when it comes to Johnson and Wiz and there's no way any of you can agree with him. These "advanced numbers", to me, prove nothing other than they cant be trusted. He says how Johnson's "vision and decisions" make him pause and yet Wiz "usually knows what to do with the puck". The ****ing piece is titled, "James Wisniewski and the Big Mistake"!! Then it ends questioning how bad we'd be without Wiz and how much better we'd be without Johnson.
At least I made it INTO the Wiz thread, eh?
Wanted to kill some time and start to look over the highlights of a lot of the games from the past year. Didn't make it too far in before I found this beauty of a goal. The call of it is even better. Its a goal the kid will remember forever.
If these players are injured, these organizations need to think of their health long term and not allow them to come back so soon without being fully recovered. Its clearly obvious that Wiz sustained a concussion during preseason that we didn't know about. Goals 2 and 3 were not much better.
If these players are injured, these organizations need to think of their health long term and not allow them to come back so soon without being fully recovered. Its clearly obvious that Wiz sustained a concussion during preseason that we didn't know about. Goals 2 and 3 were not much better.
CBJWerenski8
Rest in Peace Johnny
- Jun 13, 2009
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Seriously, you can't help yourself can you? You keep coming in here with an argument that nobody agrees with you on. Which is fine, you can have your opinion. But you keep bringing it up and bringing it up and are just doing it to get reactions out of people. Regardless of your stance on Wiz, he's staying this year in the least. You know it and I know it. Deal with it, because jesus this is getting very annoying.
Sore Loser
Sorest of them all
Give Wisniewski partial blame there for not tying up the stick, but partial blame also goes to Bobrovsky for not controlling his rebound.
Since we're picking out individual plays for our arguments:
We can probably go play for play also, since you know, Wisniewski was an EVEN RATING player this year. That's not counting his powerplay points, which clearly tip the scale in the right direction. I'd say the good outweighs the bad.
SuperGenius
For Duty & Humanity!
- Mar 18, 2008
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clearly you're missing the point here.
WIZ HAZ BAD HOCKEYZ.
I mean, if he says it enough times, it must be true, right? The best part is that he was somehow able to hold it in for nearly six weeks before the zombie post yesterday. One can only imagine what triggered it.
I'm still in the camp that Wiz must've kicked this guy's dog, fathered a child with his wife or something along those lines. It's almost comical at this point - I've really never seen anything at this level of stupidity before on here - and that's saying something. It must be exhausting.
Sore Loser
Sorest of them all
Either that, or he's really Brent Seabrook, still ******** over being checked to the head...
ORRRR its because all I hear about is how great he was during the regular season and that he was only bad in the playoffs and it was because he was injured. I honestly decided to just look over the highlights from the past season, and this happened 3 minutes into the year. I forgot all about this goal. I do however remember the Hudler goal where Wiz played the 1 on 1 JMFJ style. And I remember all the hate thrown Murray's way when he threw that pass across the blueline while Wiz's attempt to get back looked like he's got skates on from the 50's. Sure, its not a good rebound by Bobrovsky but that type of shot(quick, low blocker/pad) is probably the hardest for goalies to control. I'd argue the guy probably shot it just for the rebound to pop back out in front like it did. But that defensive play is about as terrible and lazy as you can get. And the same stuff has and will go on all throughout the year. The fact that some of you are in here defending him on THIS play is crazy. He's not on the defensive line blocking for our QB Bob, there's more to defense than body position. It looks like he has "textbook" position on him, but that's only because Monahan's worried about the puck and where his stick is positioned.
But now I guess I know why most of you don't have an issue with Wiz. You have no issue with this play. You really think this is a goal that should've been scored against us...
But now I guess I know why most of you don't have an issue with Wiz. You have no issue with this play. You really think this is a goal that should've been scored against us...
SuperGenius
For Duty & Humanity!
- Mar 18, 2008
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Or we're cool with disagreement and discourse, welcome it in fact, but when the poster is incapable of getting his point across without using sweeping generalizations and insults it gets old quite fast. I get enough name calling with my niece and nephew and they're 5 and 4. I don't need it among the adults I talk to. Drop the insults (and perhaps come up with another topic aside from WIZ ARE BAD!!1!) and I'll happily chat with you.
EspenK
Registered User
- Sep 25, 2011
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Mayor Bee
Registered User
- Dec 29, 2008
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No kidding. I think it's important to remember that all that it cost to get Wisniewski at all in the first place was a 5th-rounder, which is a pretty light price to pay for a defenseman who was 8th in points last year (and 6th in PPG). It was a great trade by Howson, who never really got the credit that he deserved while he was here and has only recently been vindicated.
(Before anyone gets worked up, I should clarify that this particular response was entirely a tongue-in-cheek reference to SuperGenius' post suggesting that it's time to move on to something else. I decided to both point out Wisniewski's value and lampoon what I was previously regarded as for the purpose of humor. I don't know if it's satirical, because with my literal-minded brain I was never able to grasp concepts like that.
In conclusion, humor. Only humor, not igniting or re-igniting a debate.)
I think its perfectly fair if you're opinion is that Wiz's mistakes outweigh his scoring. But its not fair to expect that you can persuade everyone to agree with you on this, and to think all you need to do is post another insult filled rant.
I agree, this Wiz business is old. Can we pleease get back to talking about how important Foligno is to the hockey club?
Yes you do understand humor, Mayor Bee, you do.
No kidding. I think it's important to remember that all that it cost to get Wisniewski at all in the first place was a 5th-rounder, which is a pretty light price to pay for a defenseman who was 8th in points last year (and 6th in PPG). It was a great trade by Howson, who never really got the credit that he deserved while he was here and has only recently been vindicated.
I agree, this Wiz business is old. Can we pleease get back to talking about how important Foligno is to the hockey club?
Yes you do understand humor, Mayor Bee, you do.
Mayor Bee
Registered User
- Dec 29, 2008
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LEMME TELL YA ABOUT THE FIRST TIME I SAW MIKEY FOLINGO IN A GAME. I WAS COACHING THE BRUINS AND WE WERE IN TORONNA TO PLAY THE LEAFS. WE HAD SOME EXTRA TIME SO I SAW A GAME IN SUDBURY, AND THE WOLVES HAD FOLINGO ON THE FIRST LINE WITH DALE HUNTER AND A GUY NAMED DAVE MACQUEEN. SO YOU GOT TWO GOOD OL' ONTARIO BOYS AND SOMEONE WHO THEY CALLED 'QUEENIE' EVEN THOUGH HE WASN'T A EURO.
SO FOLINGO HAD THAT BUBBLE HELMET EVEN THEN, AND RIGHT OFF THE DRAW THE OTHER CENTER SAID THAT HE LOOKED LIKE A BUG. FOLINGO SKATED RIGHT BY HIM AND SCORED 10 SECONDS IN, THEN WHEN HE CAME BACK HE SAID 'I MAY LOOK LIKE A BUG, BUT WE'RE UP ONE TA NOTHIN'.' SO I CALLED OUR GM HARRY SINDEN AND SAID THAT WE HAD TO DRAFT THIS GUY, AND HARRY SAID 'GRAPES, JUST FOCUS ON COACHING. WE'VE GOT A TEAM THAT CAN WIN THE CUP, AND IF YOU SCREW THIS UP FOR US BECAUSE YOU CAN'T COUNT TO SIX THEN YOU'LL BE LUCKY TO COACH THE COLORADO ROCKIES.' AND THAT WAS A PRETTY BAD THREAT SINCE COLORADO HAD THIS CHICKEN SWEDE GOALIE NAMED HARDY ASTROM, WHO THREATENED TO PUT ME IN AN EARLY GRAVE JUST BY PLAYING. HE DIDN'T HAVE TO SAY A WORD. I ONCE SAW HIM GIVE UP TWO STRAIGHT GOALS FROM CENTER ICE. ONE WAS A BLAST FROM REED LARSON WHO HAD A CANNON, AND I THINK THE OTHER WAS AQUAMAN.
[/CherryMode]
Sore Loser
Sorest of them all
Two classic Mayor Bee posts. I've come to expect nothing less!
All that's missing is Ron MacLean reminding him that he has no time left and still wanting him to comment on another issue.
Mayor Bee
Registered User
- Dec 29, 2008
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I'm just wondering if Ron MacLean would have pointed out that Cherry was rambling on about Mike Foligno and not talking at all about Nick Foligno.
Oh, what the hell, it's MY scenario! Early MacLean would point it out, later MacLean would just let it go.
Double-Shift Lasse
Just post better
You're saying here that Wiz's awesomeness is all you hear about. You don't hear about anything else? Are you only reading this thread? And then only select posts within this thread? Maybe that explains why you're the only person actively postin in this thread. Do you have it bookmarked or something? There are like two or three non-Wiz-related threads active just on the CBJ forum first page alone. There must be a couple others somewhere.
If you guys can at least admit that Johnson is our top defenseman I'll quit with the Wiz stuff until opening night.
