James Wisniewski

[DarkandStormy]

Who do you think is more important to the team JJ or Wiz?

Where was the uproar when Wiz wasn't named or even brought up in discussions about the US Olympic team?

1) JJ.

2) There was no uproar because he hasn't been on a U.S. team since Worlds in 2008. If this is in comparison to JJ, well...Jack has been on a U.S. team in International competition for every year since 2004, with the exception of 2008 (injured I believe) and I don't think he went to Worlds in '13. That...and he's not that good in his own zone compared with the guys that were under consideration.

 

[thebus2288*]

1) JJ.

2) There was no uproar because he hasn't been on a U.S. team since Worlds in 2008.

Why is that you think? Maybe not good enough?

That...and he's not that good in his own zone compared with the guys that were under consideration.

So intelligent hockey minds understand that his offense doesn't make up for his defense.

How many of these Top-whatever lists that you guys rank Wiz on have any of the US Olympic guys ahead of him?? Or Jack Johnson.

 

[Tulipunaruusu*]

Why is that you think? Maybe not good enough?
So intelligent hockey minds understand that his offense doesn't make up for his defense.

How many of these Top-whatever lists that you guys rank Wiz on have any of the US Olympic guys ahead of him?? Or Jack Johnson.

Committee of American hockey minds also decided to not invite Keith Yandle because of his risky passing play. 5-0 exit in bronze game.

U.S.A has number of Olympian-level defenders (systematic approach behind it all) and Wisniewski is somewhere on that list. Form in six latest games shouldn't really make the decision.

 

[Nordique]

Why is that you think? Maybe not good enough?




So intelligent hockey minds understand that his offense doesn't make up for his defense.

How many of these Top-whatever lists that you guys rank Wiz on have any of the US Olympic guys ahead of him?? Or Jack Johnson.

Brooks Orpik was an olympian in 2014. Claude Giroux was not.

 

[SuperGenius]

What I'm trying to get to you guys is that MAYBE just MAYBE Wisniewski's success has more to do with the TEAM and the guys he plays on the PP with AND Ryan Murray. Wisniewski is not the driving force of the CBJ.

You continue to be all over the place here.

You can't contribute the 'good' he does to TEAM and the bad he does to WIZ. It's a mixture of both, as with anyone else. Your little crusade is fun to watch, but rather than continue to bash your head against the wall and continue to find new ways to disagree with 10-12 others in the discussion, maybe you could allow the idea that you might be letting your emotions get in the way of an objective analysis. At this point, you're not even trying to be logical about any of this. The others posting data and supporting facts are not the ones being irrational. Remember the old gambler's saying about looking around a room and if you can't find the sucker....

 

[blahblah]

You continue to be all over the place here.

You can't contribute the 'good' he does to TEAM and the bad he does to WIZ. It's a mixture of both, as with anyone else. Your little crusade is fun to watch, but rather than continue to bash your head against the wall and continue to find new ways to disagree with 10-12 others in the discussion, maybe you could allow the idea that you might be letting your emotions get in the way of an objective analysis. At this point, you're not even trying to be logical about any of this. The others posting data and supporting facts are not the ones being irrational. Remember the old gambler's saying about looking around a room and if you can't find the sucker....

Nicely put.

So we some back with "who was more important to the team, JJ or Wiz". We jump back into the world of subjective.

Did we ever think that a guy that until last year has never played more than 70 games during the regular season was ever going to be considered for the US hockey team? We've all already questioned his two way game.

Most of us that want to keep him would like to see role adjusted and his minutes reduced.

I'm really not sure what he's looking for. I'm convinced he doesn't either.

He's making some odd comment about "team", well this level of production isn't uncommon through his career. The issue was that he was injured so he couldn't prove that over the course of a season. This last one was the closest he's gotten. Having said that he's been consistently at and under 45 minute PROD (which is pretty darn good) and if you take out that disaster of a short season with the Islanders he's actually a plus player for his career. JJ is like a -100 (although is roles are usually larger - but still). Having said that Wiz has been averaging over 22 minutes since 09. That is where most of his minus numbers have come from, however mostly on bad teams. That should probably be an indicator that we should reduce his minutes a bit.

At one point JJ was maligned and Wiz was at the top of his game. During that time, before the Olympic snub, it could be said that Wiz was far more important to the team.

I think what we are dealing with is someone who is backed into a corner... The Captain going down with the ship. Whatever saying you want to apply here.

 

[thebus2288*]

There's people saying he's a top 10 offensive guy or a top 15 OVERALL defenseman. The JJ comments are to highlight that I (AND MOST OF YOU) understand that JJ is a more valuable/better overall defenseman. I think Murray is better too. So should most of you. I'll leave Savard out but that's 2 guys who can easily be seen as more important than Wiz. So does this mean that we have 2-3 top 20 defenseman in the NHL on our team? You guys sound like Toronto fans with all this Wiz hype. He may not be as bad as I believe, but he definitely isn't as good as some of you make it seem.

And the captain comments haha. Not very long ago almost all of you were soooo certain about the Umberger situation. I was very adamant that I thought we should find any way to get him off the team as it would make us better. A buyout was the thing that always made most sense to me but just the idea of it made most of your emotions flare up. 1.5 years later look where we're at. He's getting bought out. A lot of the same things being said about my feeling for Wiz were said about what I thought about Umberger. Slowly but surely after you guys opened your eyes a bit more MOST of you came to understand what he does for us, nothing. This "hate" that you think I have for these guys only develops when I think they're not helping the team as much as they could or should.

 

[Mayor Bee]

There's people saying he's a top 10 offensive guy or a top 15 OVERALL defenseman. The JJ comments are to highlight that I (AND MOST OF YOU) understand that JJ is a more valuable/better overall defenseman. I think Murray is better too. So should most of you. I'll leave Savard out but that's 2 guys who can easily be seen as more important than Wiz. So does this mean that we have 2-3 top 20 defenseman in the NHL on our team? You guys sound like Toronto fans with all this Wiz hype. He may not be as bad as I believe, but he definitely isn't as good as some of you make it seem.

And the captain comments haha. Not very long ago almost all of you were soooo certain about the Umberger situation. I was very adamant that I thought we should find any way to get him off the team as it would make us better. A buyout was the thing that always made most sense to me but just the idea of it made most of your emotions flare up. 1.5 years later look where we're at. He's getting bought out. A lot of the same things being said about my feeling for Wiz were said about what I thought about Umberger. Slowly but surely after you guys opened your eyes a bit more MOST of you came to understand what he does for us, nothing. This "hate" that you think I have for these guys only develops when I think they're not helping the team as much as they could or should.

The only thing missing is a closing line of "But obviously you plebs couldn't begin to understand these things."

This basically reads like it was written by me if I went on a three-day bender.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

There's people saying he's a top 10 offensive guy or a top 15 OVERALL defenseman. The JJ comments are to highlight that I (AND MOST OF YOU) understand that JJ is a more valuable/better overall defenseman. I think Murray is better too. So should most of you. I'll leave Savard out but that's 2 guys who can easily be seen as more important than Wiz. So does this mean that we have 2-3 top 20 defenseman in the NHL on our team? You guys sound like Toronto fans with all this Wiz hype. He may not be as bad as I believe, but he definitely isn't as good as some of you make it seem.

And the captain comments haha. Not very long ago almost all of you were soooo certain about the Umberger situation. I was very adamant that I thought we should find any way to get him off the team as it would make us better. A buyout was the thing that always made most sense to me but just the idea of it made most of your emotions flare up. 1.5 years later look where we're at. He's getting bought out. A lot of the same things being said about my feeling for Wiz were said about what I thought about Umberger. Slowly but surely after you guys opened your eyes a bit more MOST of you came to understand what he does for us, nothing. This "hate" that you think I have for these guys only develops when I think they're not helping the team as much as they could or should.

What I read was "I'm always right and every one else, and I mean everyone else on this board (since nobody agrees to my level of hatred for Wiz) is wrong. So that means you're wrong. Regardless of what the stats say."

 

[Mayor Bee]

What I read was "I'm always right and every one else, and I mean everyone else on this board (since nobody agrees to my level of hatred for Wiz) is wrong. So that means you're wrong. Regardless of what the stats say."

There's only one person around here who can have that attitude and still be both logical and slightly endearing, and I'm right here.

 

[Socks]

What I read was "I'm always right and every one else, and I mean everyone else on this board (since nobody agrees to my level of hatred for Wiz) is wrong. So that means you're wrong. Regardless of what the stats say."

I'm amazed he managed to reach the keyboard while sitting so high up on his horse.

 

[blahblah]

This basically reads like it was written by me if I went on a three-day bender.

Tone, perhaps. Content, doubt it.

 

[Nordique]

There's people saying he's a top 10 offensive guy or a top 15 OVERALL defenseman. The JJ comments are to highlight that I (AND MOST OF YOU) understand that JJ is a more valuable/better overall defenseman. I think Murray is better too. So should most of you. I'll leave Savard out but that's 2 guys who can easily be seen as more important than Wiz. So does this mean that we have 2-3 top 20 defenseman in the NHL on our team? You guys sound like Toronto fans with all this Wiz hype. He may not be as bad as I believe, but he definitely isn't as good as some of you make it seem.

And the captain comments haha. Not very long ago almost all of you were soooo certain about the Umberger situation. I was very adamant that I thought we should find any way to get him off the team as it would make us better. A buyout was the thing that always made most sense to me but just the idea of it made most of your emotions flare up. 1.5 years later look where we're at. He's getting bought out. A lot of the same things being said about my feeling for Wiz were said about what I thought about Umberger. Slowly but surely after you guys opened your eyes a bit more MOST of you came to understand what he does for us, nothing. This "hate" that you think I have for these guys only develops when I think they're not helping the team as much as they could or should.

I got nothing...

 

[thebus2288*]

Karlsson, Keith, Weber, Byfuglien, Subban, Markov, Yandle, OEL, Pietrangelo, Hedman, Kronwall, Giordano, Sekera, McDonagh, Suter, Spurgeon, Doughty, Campbell, Fowler, Letang are all better than Wisniewski when it comes to offense generated from the back end. Other than Campbell(maybe) and Letang(maybe) you guys would be crazier than me to NOT accept a 1 for 1 trade for Wiz. There's quite a few mainly younger guys(around 10) that I believe are better but I'll stop here at 20.

How many of the above guys do you think play worse DEFENSE than James?

The all-around ranking I'm not even gonna attempt. Believing or saying that Wiz is a worse defenseman than somebody is showing "hate" for him? So what exactly is believing that somebody is worse than Wiz?

How would you rank Wiz, Johnson and Murray overall? I honestly believe most of the year the rook was our best guy but by next year its gonna be clearly 1)Murray 2)JJ 3)Wiz..Or do you hate Ryan Murray!!??

 

[stevo61]

Karlsson, Keith, Weber, Byfuglien, Subban, Markov, Yandle, OEL, Pietrangelo, Hedman, Kronwall, Giordano, Sekera, McDonagh, Suter, Spurgeon, Doughty, Campbell, Fowler, Letang are all better than Wisniewski when it comes to offense generated from the back end. Other than Campbell(maybe) and Letang(maybe) you guys would be crazier than me to NOT accept a 1 for 1 trade for Wiz. There's quite a few mainly younger guys(around 10) that I believe are better but I'll stop here at 20.

How many of the above guys do you think play worse DEFENSE than James?

The all-around ranking I'm not even gonna attempt. Believing or saying that Wiz is a worse defenseman than somebody is showing "hate" for him? So what exactly is believing that somebody is worse than Wiz?

How would you rank Wiz, Johnson and Murray overall? I honestly believe most of the year the rook was our best guy but by next year its gonna be clearly 1)Murray 2)JJ 3)Wiz..Or do you hate Ryan Murray!!??

Who cares how people rank them? Fact of the matter is Murray and Savard will be ready for more time consistently and Wiz as a result should get less PK and even ES time. Wiz was 8th in points and was an even player who was playing over 22 minutes a game. You don't like him we get it. That doesn't mean a guy who's career high is 26 points is a better offensive player

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Karlsson, Keith, Weber, Byfuglien, Subban, Markov, Yandle, OEL, Pietrangelo, Hedman, Kronwall, Giordano, Sekera, McDonagh, Suter, Spurgeon, Doughty, Campbell, Fowler, Letang are all better than Wisniewski when it comes to offense generated from the back end. Other than Campbell(maybe) and Letang(maybe) you guys would be crazier than me to NOT accept a 1 for 1 trade for Wiz. There's quite a few mainly younger guys(around 10) that I believe are better but I'll stop here at 20.

How many of the above guys do you think play worse DEFENSE than James?

The all-around ranking I'm not even gonna attempt. Believing or saying that Wiz is a worse defenseman than somebody is showing "hate" for him? So what exactly is believing that somebody is worse than Wiz?

How would you rank Wiz, Johnson and Murray overall? I honestly believe most of the year the rook was our best guy but by next year its gonna be clearly 1)Murray 2)JJ 3)Wiz..Or do you hate Ryan Murray!!??

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...2=5v4&f4=D&f7=70-&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+17+18+19+20

Only Shea Weber was more productive on the PP in points generated per 60 minutes than Wiz was. Giordano was tied. Of note, Wiz had over 2.5 times the rate of primary assists than Weber did. None of the other non bolded 20 you listed were as good as Wiz in PP production/60 minutes. So, you are very wrong about offense generated from the back end on the PP. There's no getting around these numbers.

How hard is it to get a grip on the fact that Wiz is an OUTSTANDING PP producer. He has great vision and has a ridiculously hard cannon of a shot.

He would be on the first unit of every power play in the league. Every single team.

Get used to him. He ain't going anywhere. Nor should he.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Karlsson, Keith, Weber, Byfuglien, Subban, Markov, Yandle, OEL, Pietrangelo, Hedman, Kronwall, Giordano, Sekera, McDonagh, Suter, Spurgeon, Doughty, Campbell, Fowler, Letang are all better than Wisniewski when it comes to offense generated from the back end. Other than Campbell(maybe) and Letang(maybe) you guys would be crazier than me to NOT accept a 1 for 1 trade for Wiz. There's quite a few mainly younger guys(around 10) that I believe are better but I'll stop here at 20.

How many of the above guys do you think play worse DEFENSE than James?

The all-around ranking I'm not even gonna attempt. Believing or saying that Wiz is a worse defenseman than somebody is showing "hate" for him? So what exactly is believing that somebody is worse than Wiz?

How would you rank Wiz, Johnson and Murray overall? I honestly believe most of the year the rook was our best guy but by next year its gonna be clearly 1)Murray 2)JJ 3)Wiz..Or do you hate Ryan Murray!!??

It's been clearly refuted that Wiz is far superior in PP point production to those you've mentioned with the exception of Weber.

I've taken it upon myself to check on ES production. Byfuglien is out because he played forward a good portion of the year.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...4=D&f7=50-&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+17+18+19+20#snip=f

Rankings based on ES points/60 minutes:

1) Hedman-1.60
2) Karlsson-1.56
3) keith-1.49
4) Pietrangelo-1.23
5) Sekera-1.19
6) Giordano-1.13
7) Weber-1.04
T8) Subban-0.99
T8) Kromwell-0.99
10) Wiz-0.98**31st overall in league for dman playing over 60 games**
11) McDonaugh-0.97
12) OEL-0.87
13) Spurgeon-0.86
T14) Yandel-0.83
T14) Letang-0.83
16) Fowler-0.81
T17) Campbell-0.80
T17) Suter-0.80
19) Markov-0.72
20) Doughty-0.67

So, you're wrong again. Hate to break it to you. Even at ES Wiz is right in the middle of the group you listed. In fact, he's a stones throw away from #7 Weber...almost in the top third in the group.

Add in his PP acumen and Wiz is in (or around) the top 5 overall in total offense produced/60 minutes of the group you just listed.

Wiz is a very good offensive defenseman in all circumstances. He just happens to be exceptional on the PP.

 

[thebus2288*]

It's been clearly refuted that Wiz is far superior in PP point production to those you've mentioned with the exception of Weber.

Focused on numbers too much. Numbers that mean nothing to me. Some of you understand what I'm trying to get at and others are just in blind defense of Wiz. I understand he's a good offensive defensemen. I also understand that he's terrible when it comes to defense. You say he's even 5 on 5, so that makes him "not bad" defensively. That's just simply NOT TRUE. He's the worst guy when it comes to defense on our team and he would be on most other teams... true or not? Instead of downplaying it, understand that there's negative value there.

Going back simply to "offensive production from the back end" you have to understand that when somebody does something that leads to a goal they don't always get credited with points. You throw POINTS in there because he had a good statistical season and then divide a couple times then POOF...he's a top 5 guy offensively? There's NO WAY you can possibly feel that he's top 5-10 in pure offensive IMPACT as a defensemen, even if he did finish 8th in points.

The fact that out of all those guys on the list you decided to keep comparing Wiz to Weber, is further proof to me that a lot of you are strongly OVERVALUING Wiz's offensive impact on our team. I don't even wanna know what your trying to suggest with the primary assist comment. Tell JK n JD to get the stones ready I guess.

 

[stevo61]

Focused on numbers too much. Numbers that mean nothing to me. Some of you understand what I'm trying to get at and others are just in blind defense of Wiz. I understand he's a good offensive defensemen. I also understand that he's terrible when it comes to defense. You say he's even 5 on 5, so that makes him "not bad" defensively. That's just simply NOT TRUE. He's the worst guy when it comes to defense on our team and he would be on most other teams... true or not? Instead of downplaying it, understand that there's negative value there.

Going back simply to "offensive production from the back end" you have to understand that when somebody does something that leads to a goal they don't always get credited with points. You throw POINTS in there because he had a good statistical season and then divide a couple times then POOF...he's a top 5 guy offensively? There's NO WAY you can possibly feel that he's top 5-10 in pure offensive IMPACT as a defensemen, even if he did finish 8th in points.

The fact that out of all those guys on the list you decided to keep comparing Wiz to Weber, is further proof to me that a lot of you are strongly OVERVALUING Wiz's offensive impact on our team. I don't even wanna know what your trying to suggest with the primary assist comment. Tell JK n JD to get the stones ready I guess.

He was on the ice for more goals for then against which is pretty much the point of hockey. Get over it hes not as bad as you think, did he kick your dog or something because it's very confusing and nothing here makes any sense

 

[SuperGenius]

Focused on numbers too much. Numbers that mean nothing to me.

This should pretty much end the argument. If you're not interested in statistics, facts, etc, then I think we're done here.

Some of us need a little more than "because I said so" in a debate. You say you're not simply a 'hater' but you've been pushing hard against facts and stats for the better part of two weeks now. If that's not a 'hater' I don't know what is. Everyone's opinions are different, but like I said earlier, if you think everyone here and everyone in the hockey world is wrong despite the facts that support them, I think you really need to look in the mirror and be honest with yourself about this whole thing. You don't like the guy, we get it. Time to move on.

Wiz has his issues, but at the end of the day, he's a valuable person on this team, tangibles and intangibles and I'm glad we have him.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

Focused on numbers too much. Numbers that mean nothing to me. Some of you understand what I'm trying to get at and others are just in blind defense of Wiz. I understand he's a good offensive defensemen. I also understand that he's terrible when it comes to defense. You say he's even 5 on 5, so that makes him "not bad" defensively. That's just simply NOT TRUE. He's the worst guy when it comes to defense on our team and he would be on most other teams... true or not? Instead of downplaying it, understand that there's negative value there.

Going back simply to "offensive production from the back end" you have to understand that when somebody does something that leads to a goal they don't always get credited with points. You throw POINTS in there because he had a good statistical season and then divide a couple times then POOF...he's a top 5 guy offensively? There's NO WAY you can possibly feel that he's top 5-10 in pure offensive IMPACT as a defensemen, even if he did finish 8th in points.

The fact that out of all those guys on the list you decided to keep comparing Wiz to Weber, is further proof to me that a lot of you are strongly OVERVALUING Wiz's offensive impact on our team. I don't even wanna know what your trying to suggest with the primary assist comment. Tell JK n JD to get the stones ready I guess.

So, all these other D are doing all these things that Wiz doesn't do at all is what creates offense but can't be measured in points or by any other know quantities? OK. Gotcha.

So, his point totals and rates of scoring production which rank in (or near) the top 10 by any measure really don't count? The "you say so, so therefore it's true" impression of offensive production is more meaningful in gauging offensive production than cold, hard statistics. OK.

A primary assist is the assist which generally impacts the production of a goal moreso than a secondary assist. That Wiz had a ratio of over 2.5:1.0 to Shea Weber in primary assists could reasonably infer that his playmaking ability on the PP is superior to that of Weber's. Weber's goal ratio compared to Wiz' on the PP strongly suggests that he's a better goal scorer on the PP than Wiz.

It's not rocket science. I give up

 

[thebus2288*]

This should pretty much end the argument. If you're not interested in statistics, facts, etc, then I think we're done here.

Some of us need a little more than "because I said so" in a debate.

There's just as many stats, facts, and most importantly "etc." that I throw out there that gets many "no because I said so" from you guys. The main one for me is the simple number of minutes that the dude played on the PP for us this year. But you guys divide those numbers and some **** and turn that into him being top-5 guy in the league.

The numbers or "stats" I have issues with are these corsi/advanced whatever they are.

1.34...2.6...5.86...11.75 all mean nothing to me. Along with all the /60 "stats" or whatever else behind the nets got.

Weber, Karlsson, Keith, Pietrangelo, OEL, Suter, Doughty, Giordano, Subban>>>>> Wisniewski. Its a joke that they're being compared, even if you and btn.ca say otherwise.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

Tell JK n JD to get the stones ready I guess.

I don't know what this means.

It is my favorite part of your post.

 

[thebus2288*]

A primary assist is the assist which generally impacts the production of a goal moreso than a secondary assist. That Wiz had a ratio of over 2.5:1.0 to Shea Weber in primary assists could reasonably infer that his playmaking ability on the PP is superior to that of Weber's. Weber's goal ratio compared to Wiz' on the PP strongly suggests that he's a better goal scorer on the PP than Wiz.

It's not rocket science. I give up

I was afraid that was the case. He's NOT superior to Shea Weber in any single aspect of ice hockey. Zero. Not foot speed, "playmaking", nothing. What does behindthenet say about that? Hard statistics don't have 12 decimal points or a "/" after everything.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

This 'debate' is such a joke now. It's obvious he won't change his mind or opinion no matter how many facts and stats are thrown his way. So, the simple answer is prepare yourself to see Wiz on the CBJ in October, because he'll likely be in the lineup for game one.