James Wisniewski

Zarathustra

This is not my hat.
Nov 21, 2007
3,981
194
Salzburg
Well I'll take blame for a lot of the Wiz talk in other threads. It just really bothers me that a lot of you don't look at the overall impact he has on this team. You guys have had your Rick Nash Fan syndrome flare up. How is it possible that we've been a better team the last 2 years without Nash and ALL THOSE POINTS!?! There were many fans of other teams (and even some of you) that would laugh at the thought of us being a better team NEXT YEAR let alone the day after that trade was made. How'd that turn out? The negative outweighs the positive with some of these "point producers". I can make the same case with Ovy in Washington.

Our PP was better this year than in the past, and Wiz is good on the powerplay. I'm not arguing that. I'm arguing how good it actually was and how much better you people think Wiz is on the PP than other guys we have. And does this so called power play expertise really make up for his terrible d zone play and turnovers that lead to many goals against? And if you think his 5.5 cap hit does not also negatively affect the make-up of the team then I don't know what to say, other than YES it does.

There were many times during the year that our powerplay "led" by Wiz was terrible. There were times it was good. I think we're really underestimating the offensive ability of our other defensemen if you guys really think that Wiz is the only 1 to make the difference he has with the amount of PP TOI he got. You're very wrong also if you really think this guy is a top 5-10 PPQB specialist. I don't care what the numbers say. He's nowhere near the difference maker that the top offensive(say 20-25) d men in this league are.

Wiz was on the score sheet for over 50% of our PP goals. I would say that's a very significant role on the PP. He also finished as an +/- 0 five-on-five. so I don't understand where the huge liability argument comes from--at least this year.

Yes, Wiz is prone to gaffes that cost the team. But I think his positives outweigh the negatives (by quite a lot). We finished in the upper echelon of PP effectiveness, and goal-scoring, and Wiz was second on the team in scoring.


If you think that, if Wiz went to the open market today, he wouldn't get 5.5 (or more) then you're dreaming. 50-point, RH defensemen who figure in on over 50% of the teams PP goals, do not grow on trees, and are difficult to acquire. Tie all this in with the fact that Wiz has a great attitude about being here, and for me his value is more than what we'd get for him, and certainly more than any buyout people keep suggesting.

Without Wiz, we're a 12% power play again.
 

EspenK

Registered User
Sep 25, 2011
15,842
4,446
Wiz was on the score sheet for over 50% of our PP goals. I would say that's a very significant role on the PP. He also finished as an +/- 0 five-on-five. so I don't understand where the huge liability argument comes from--at least this year.

He was even at even? Wow- I have got to look at the stats a bit closer next year.
 
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thebus2288*

Guest
Wiz was on the score sheet for over 50% of our PP goals.

Ok, now tell me what the % of the PP minutes that Wiz was on the ice for the team this year is? Then tell me WHAT YOU THINK the % of our power plays during the year (going good or terrible) where the guys were instructed to set up plays starting from out on the point.

I know a lot of you guys evaluate things based on EA SPORTS so I will put it like this. Our PP would be(and was) better with an OVERLOAD style offense, with our guys coming out of the corner attacking the net. We started doing this at the end of the regular season AND during our PP success during the playoffs. During most of the year we ran an UMBRELLA type PP that was essentially just throw it out to Wiz and "let him do his thing". Sometimes his "thing" helped us. Most times it did not.


% and numbers only go so far if you people don't look at the situational aspect of things.
 

CBJWerenski8

Rest in Peace Johnny
Jun 13, 2009
43,701
26,750
Ok, now tell me what the % of the PP minutes that Wiz was on the ice for the team this year is? Then tell me WHAT YOU THINK the % of our power plays during the year (going good or terrible) where the guys were instructed to set up plays starting from out on the point.

Who the **** cares who's on the ice and for how long as long as it's in the net I am happy.
 

Crede777

Deputized
Dec 16, 2009
14,843
4,560
ITT: Let's fix something that isn't broken.

Wisniewski had 51 points, that's WORKING AS INTENDED. If we want to complain about our defense not being up to snuff, look at guys like Prout, Johnson, Tyutin, and Nikitin. Let Wiz keep doing what he's doing and fix those other guys so that they play well enough to make up for it. Want someone to complain about? Pick on Johnson. I love him as a player and he is a great part of the team, but HIS scoring pace isn't high enough to overlook defensive gaffs. Wisniewski's is.
 
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Cyclones Rock

Registered User
Jun 12, 2008
10,914
7,077
Ok, now tell me what the % of the PP minutes that Wiz was on the ice for the team this year is? Then tell me WHAT YOU THINK the % of our power plays during the year (going good or terrible) where the guys were instructed to set up plays starting from out on the point.

I know a lot of you guys evaluate things based on EA SPORTS so I will put it like this. Our PP would be(and was) better with an OVERLOAD style offense, with our guys coming out of the corner attacking the net. We started doing this at the end of the regular season AND during our PP success during the playoffs. During most of the year we ran an UMBRELLA type PP that was essentially just throw it out to Wiz and "let him do his thing". Sometimes his "thing" helped us. Most times it did not.


% and numbers only go so far if you people don't look at the situational aspect of things.

Points generated on PP for CBJ:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20142CBJSASALL&sort=powerPlayPoints&viewName=summary

Top PP point scorers on CBJ (no one else had more than 12)

Wiz..........28
Johansen....20
JJ.....18

Points generated per 60 minutes 5vs4 CBJ defensemen:

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...4=D&f5=CBJ&f7=50-&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+17+18+19+20

Savard only had 4 points and played only 0:35 of PP on average per game vs. 3:39 for Wiz. Sample size too small.

Top 4 CBJ dman pts/60 minutes 5 vs. 4

Wiz....5.71
JJ.......3.53
Tyutin....3.35
Murray....3.10

Wiz generated 62% more points per 60 minutes than the next closest dman 5 vs. 4.

Wiz is an exceptional PP player no matter how one evaluates him. Trying to make a case that "most times it did not" would be impossible. But, feel free to try:)
 

Mayor Bee

Registered User
Dec 29, 2008
18,087
535
ITT: Let's fix something that isn't broken.

Wisniewski had 51 points, that's WORKING AS INTENDED. If we want to complain about our defense not being up to snuff, look at guys like Prout, Johnson, Tyutin, and Nikitin. Let Wiz keep doing what he's doing and fix those other guys so that they play well enough to make up for it. Want someone to complain about? Pick on Johnson. I love him as a player and he is a great part of the team, but HIS scoring pace isn't high enough to overlook defensive gaffs. Wisniewski's is.

Come after me! I'm a man! I'm 40! I'm not a kid. Write something about me, or our coaches. Don't write about a kid that does everything right, that's heart's broken and then say the coaches said he was scared. That ain't true!
 

major major

Registered User
Feb 18, 2013
14,598
1,669
Points generated on PP for CBJ:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?fetchKey=20142CBJSASALL&sort=powerPlayPoints&viewName=summary

Top PP point scorers on CBJ (no one else had more than 12)

Wiz..........28
Johansen....20
JJ.....18

Points generated per 60 minutes 5vs4 CBJ defensemen:

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stat...4=D&f5=CBJ&f7=50-&c=0+1+3+5+4+6+7+17+18+19+20

Savard only had 4 points and played only 0:35 of PP on average per game vs. 3:39 for Wiz. Sample size too small.

Top 4 CBJ dman pts/60 minutes 5 vs. 4

Wiz....5.71
JJ.......3.53
Tyutin....3.35
Murray....3.10

Wiz generated 62% more points per 60 minutes than the next closest dman 5 vs. 4.

Wiz is an exceptional PP player no matter how one evaluates him. Trying to make a case that "most times it did not" would be impossible. But, feel free to try:)

Weeks ago I replied to Bus with the same stats. Bus doesn't understand scoring per minute, don't bother.
 

Crede777

Deputized
Dec 16, 2009
14,843
4,560
Come after me! I'm a man! I'm 40! I'm not a kid. Write something about me, or our coaches. Don't write about a kid that does everything right, that's heart's broken and then say the coaches said he was scared. That ain't true!

When we were trying to sign him, nobody was like "James Wisniewski! Defensive stalwart! Now there's a guy who can play 20 of the hardest minutes each night!"

If anything, his defensive game has gotten better after we signed him to that contract knowing full well he's there for the points.
 

db2011

Registered User
Oct 10, 2011
3,565
474
Brooklyn
Ok, now tell me what the % of the PP minutes that Wiz was on the ice for the team this year is? Then tell me WHAT YOU THINK the % of our power plays during the year (going good or terrible) where the guys were instructed to set up plays starting from out on the point.

I know a lot of you guys evaluate things based on EA SPORTS so I will put it like this. Our PP would be(and was) better with an OVERLOAD style offense, with our guys coming out of the corner attacking the net. We started doing this at the end of the regular season AND during our PP success during the playoffs. During most of the year we ran an UMBRELLA type PP that was essentially just throw it out to Wiz and "let him do his thing". Sometimes his "thing" helped us. Most times it did not.


% and numbers only go so far if you people don't look at the situational aspect of things.

Wait a minute- you want to call people out (rather arrogantly) for looking at stats superficially and thinking like a video game... but you're suggesting the PP point position is a plug-and-play, discounting the hours and hours of actual NHL time Wiz has playing that position while suggesting that anyone could get those numbers with the same minutes? Your credibility has flown out the window.
 

Double-Shift Lasse

Just post better
Dec 22, 2004
34,651
15,880
Exurban Cbus
Wait a minute- you want to call people out (rather arrogantly) for looking at stats superficially and thinking like a video game... but you're suggesting the PP point position is a plug-and-play, discounting the hours and hours of actual NHL time Wiz has playing that position while suggesting that anyone could get those numbers with the same minutes? Your credibility has flown out the window.

The answer to your question, based on past history, is apparently yes. As major said above, the oversimplification of PP points has been countered before and ignored. Any plug can be sent out there with enough ice time and produce.
 

Nordique

Add smoked meat, and we have a deal.
Aug 11, 2005
9,138
265
Ohio
He was our best overall defenseman in the regular season, aboslutely worth 5.5 imo.
 

thebus2288*

Guest
Want someone to complain about? Pick on Johnson. I love him as a player and he is a great part of the team, but HIS scoring pace isn't high enough to overlook defensive gaffs. Wisniewski's is.


Johnson could AND should be playing the role of James Wisniewski. We don't have enough defensive d men so a lot more of his focus is actually playing defense. And even when he was out there with Wiz he's clearly the better player. Because he makes the pass to Wiz before HE passes and gets the 2nd assist makes him worse? Watch the games. WATCH THEM. Not with a stupid smile on your face, but with your brain working. If you guys think James Wisniewski is more valuable to this team than Jack Johnson (even at his absolute worst) then I DONT KNOW ANYMORE. Severe case of the Nash/Ovy syndrome I guess...

And I'll ask you. I've asked a couple guys and haven't gotten a reply. What is the cutoff on points that makes up for Wisniewski's terrible play? 30? 35? 40? 45?
 

thebus2288*

Guest
Maybe we should change to the Columbus Wizzzz. Minor league ring to it but I think it would work. When we brought James in we had nowhere near the offensive skill on the back end that we do now. If Johnson, Savard or Murray played all year and got the amount of consistent PP minutes Wiz got, and played the same role in the scheme of our man advantage I don't see how you guys can say they wouldn't be around the 45-50pt mark. I know the numbers don't say this (Savard they do, BUT HE DIDNT PLAY ENOUGH!! WHY DIDN'T HE!?!) but the eyes do. Murray > Wiz offensively and defensively. Nikitin could easily be in the 40-45 mark also saving a couple million on the cap(and the cash strapped owners).

We don't need a 5.5 offensive defensemen anymore with how our young OFFENSIVE MINDED defense is built nowadays. We need DEFENSIVE help somehow. That 5.5 hit makes things pretty hard to improve our defense.
 

thebus2288*

Guest
Wait a minute- you want to call people out (rather arrogantly) for looking at stats superficially and thinking like a video game... but you're suggesting the PP point position is a plug-and-play, discounting the hours and hours of actual NHL time Wiz has playing that position while suggesting that anyone could get those numbers with the same minutes? Your credibility has flown out the window.


Anyone? Same minutes? You're really disrespecting the other guys on our back end if you really think that Wiz is the only 1 capable of those numbers. These are all pro hockey players who have played hockey essentially their whole lives. I mean do you really realize JUST HOW MANY MINUTES the dude was playing on the PP?

Anyone who's ever played the point on the PP at ANY level of organized hockey understand that a "different" skill-set is needed to excel. But it definitely IS NOT harder in any way than playing 5 on 5 or 4 on 5. Some of you try n joke about it, but it IS "sheltered minutes". MOST of our guys on our D have the skills to be very good point men on the powerplay.

"Rust" can not only develop on players who are injured or out of the lineup. Some of the worst "rust" develops on the bench when guys are wet. This is relevant.
 

CBJWerenski8

Rest in Peace Johnny
Jun 13, 2009
43,701
26,750
Maybe we should change to the Columbus Wizzzz. Minor league ring to it but I think it would work. When we brought James in we had nowhere near the offensive skill on the back end that we do now. If Johnson, Savard or Murray played all year and got the amount of consistent PP minutes Wiz got, and played the same role in the scheme of our man advantage I don't see how you guys can say they wouldn't be around the 45-50pt mark. I know the numbers don't say this (Savard they do, BUT HE DIDNT PLAY ENOUGH!! WHY DIDN'T HE!?!) but the eyes do. Murray > Wiz offensively and defensively. Nikitin could easily be in the 40-45 mark also saving a couple million on the cap(and the cash strapped owners).

We don't need a 5.5 offensive defensemen anymore with how our young OFFENSIVE MINDED defense is built nowadays. We need DEFENSIVE help somehow. That 5.5 hit makes things pretty hard to improve our defense.

Lol, then how do you possibly validate it other than saying "IM RIGHT, TRUST ME"
 

thebus2288*

Guest
Any plug can be sent out there with enough ice time and produce.

That's our D eh?

Question, do this past years BlueJackets make the playoffs if James Wisniewski was hurt for the whole year back in November?

I say we finish 4th or 5th in the east.
 

thebus2288*

Guest
Lol, then how do you possibly validate it other than saying "IM RIGHT, TRUST ME"

How do you produce if your not on the ice!?!?!?!?

Then, when they do(Savard) it's not a big enough sample size. I'd argue that Murray(and JJ to a lesser extent) had a bigger impact on Wiz and the powerplay than Wiz had on himself or the powerplay.
 
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Fro

Cheatin on CBJ w TBL
Mar 11, 2009
25,316
4,994
The Beach, FL
Nick Biss ‏@nickjbiss 11m
#CBJ WOWY 2013-14 5v5. Italicized totals means <60 min TOI together pic.twitter.com/C1er57Fl0C

BniQdY2CMAAg_uT.png:large


this looks like Wiz was a decent player to me...i'm not a huge fan, and he can stay or go, but these numbers make it appear that Wiz is a positive player for us
 

Double-Shift Lasse

Just post better
Dec 22, 2004
34,651
15,880
Exurban Cbus
That's our D eh?

Question, do this past years BlueJackets make the playoffs if James Wisniewski was hurt for the whole year back in November?

I say we finish 4th or 5th in the east.

You win, dude. You've thrown out unsupportable contentions on this topic for a couple weeks now and remain undeterred in the face of empirical data, competing anecdotal evidence, current hockey personnel methodology and a hundred years of hockey history. Your rigorous adherence to a position is, I guess, commendable.
 

thebus2288*

Guest
What I learn from that is that Johnson and Savard should be playing primarily PP minutes. And that Comeau is apparently our most productive player 5 on 5. Well 2nd. Of course he's behind Norris candidate James Wisniewski.
 

Cyclones Rock

Registered User
Jun 12, 2008
10,914
7,077
How do you produce if your not on the ice!?!?!?!?

Then, when they do(Savard) it's not a big enough sample size. I'd argue that Murray(and JJ to a lesser extent) had a bigger impact on Wiz and the powerplay than Wiz had on himself or the powerplay.

Do you really believe that Savard has the same offensive capabilities as Wiz does? Do you think that if he would have gotten 3:39 of ice time per game on the PP instead of 0:35 that he would have outproduced Wiz for the season? Do you really think that Todd Richards and his staff are completely missing the boat on Savard's PP abilities? If they are, then they should all be dismissed immediately.

Produce some stats which can show that Murray and JJ were more productive than Wiz on the PP. I'm open to them.
 

CBJWerenski8

Rest in Peace Johnny
Jun 13, 2009
43,701
26,750
How do you produce if your not on the ice!?!?!?!?

Then, when they do(Savard) it's not a big enough sample size. I'd argue that Murray(and JJ to a lesser extent) had a bigger impact on Wiz and the powerplay than Wiz had on himself or the powerplay.

Coach puts players on the ice who are producing. Putting up 50 points seems to believe he was producing, thus getting more ice time.
 

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