Value of: James van Riemsdyk

[CharasLazyWrister]

Philly is exceptional at locking in UFA's in to untradeable contracts. At least this one, in JVR, is actually a decent player.

 

[Dooble08]

A really dumb take.

What part of it lol. Seattle taking JVR? Nah, that's the most likely team to get him. Covid constraints for teams. Nah, not a dumb take. It's been that way for all major sports. Teams up against the salary cap. Nah, only 3 teams can take JVR without moving salary out. Those teams are not in playoff contention. So Flyers keeping him or Seattle taking him are the only 2 options here.

I get that your happy about him playing well. I am too. But 12 games isn't massively changing his trade value.

 

[Bigkarl]

Philly is exceptional at locking in UFA's in to untradeable contracts. At least this one, in JVR, is actually a decent player.

Name all of these UFA's Philly has locked into untradeable contracts over the past decade.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

Name all of these UFA's Philly has locked into untradeable contracts over the past decade.

I guess I should clarify "untradeable". I would also include players who require large salary retainment in order to be shipped out of town and who receive contracts that are derided from the very beginning from most hockey minds.

Off the top of my head in recent times: Ilya Bryzgalov, Kevin Hayes, James Van Riemsdyk, Vinny Lecavalier, Andrew MacDonald

It's a good thing the Leafs handed David Clarkson that insane contract because that had "Philly mistake" written all over it.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Philly is exceptional at locking in UFA's in to untradeable contracts. At least this one, in JVR, is actually a decent player.

So it's...tradeable?

Is that what you're saying?

He won't need a sizable amount of salary retained to get rid of him. He's produced 1st line output since becoming a Flyer.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

What part of it lol. Seattle taking JVR? Nah, that's the most likely team to get him. Covid constraints for teams. Nah, not a dumb take. It's been that way for all major sports. Teams up against the salary cap. Nah, only 3 teams can take JVR without moving salary out. Those teams are not in playoff contention. So Flyers keeping him or Seattle taking him are the only 2 options here.

I get that your happy about him playing well. I am too. But 12 games isn't massively changing his trade value.

That implies his trade value was poor beforehand - which isn't verified either way.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

So it's...tradeable?

Is that what you're saying?

He won't need a sizable amount of salary retained to get rid of him. He's produced 1st line output since becoming a Flyer.

Hopefully you kept reading and my subsequent post answered your question and helped you understand the events behind my viewpoint.

 

[mja]

I guess I should clarify "untradeable". I would also include players who require large salary retainment in order to be shipped out of town and who receive contracts that are derided from the very beginning from most hockey minds.

Off the top of my head in recent times: Ilya Bryzgalov, Kevin Hayes, James Van Riemsdyk, Vinny Lecavalier, Andrew MacDonald

It's a good thing the Leafs handed David Clarkson that insane contract because that had "Philly mistake" written all over it.

LMAO at moving the goal posts and trying to pass it off as a "clarification." LMAO at calling contracts inked 7, 8, & 10 years / 2 general managers ago recent. They literally were able to trade LeCavalier's contract (and get actual assets back) when he ceased to be an NHL player because the contract itself was quite manageable, and they played A-Mac as a shutdown defender for 4 of 6 years out of his contract. They shouldn't have, but that's another matter, and then when they bought out the final year, it was a mere blip. LMAO at calling the current 4th and 34th leading scorers in the league untradeable, though I supposed Hayes' contract is indeed literally untradeable give his NMC.

EVERY team has bad contracts in its past and Philly is middle of the pack, with Bryz being the only one you can point to as being among the worst in the league. Have you forgotten Matt Beleskey and David Backes already?

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

LMAO at moving the goal posts and trying to pass it off as a "clarification." LMAO at calling contracts inked 7, 8, & 10 years / 2 general managers ago recent. They literally were able to trade LeCavalier's contract (and get actual assets back) when he ceased to be an NHL player because the contract itself was quite manageable, and they played A-Mac as a shutdown defender for 4 of 6 years out of his contract. They shouldn't have, but that's another matter, and then when they bought out the final year, it was a mere blip. LMAO at calling the current 4th and 34th leading scorers in the league untradeable, though I supposed Hayes' contract is indeed literally untradeable give his NMC.

EVERY team has bad contracts in its past and Philly is middle of the pack, with Bryz being the only one you can point to as being among the worst in the league. Have you forgotten Matt Beleskey and David Backes already?

No I haven’t forgotten about Beleskey and Backes. Clearly my team has given out bad contracts.

I also haven’t forgotten about you getting way too wound up over a post that happened to cast your team in a negative light. I explained why I said what I said. I happen to think of Philly as a team which gives out bad contracts frequently. I amended my original term of “untradeable” because it wasn’t an accurate term for what I was trying to describe. Move the goal posts? Would you rather I had stayed adamant on something which I knew was not fully accurate?

Lecavalier’s contract was “quite manageable”? The Flyers retained half of it to ship him out. Eating half a players salary is a sign of a “manageable contract”? Some interesting goalposts you have as well.

 

[mja]

No I haven’t forgotten about Beleskey and Backes. Clearly my team has given out bad contracts.

I also haven’t forgotten about you getting way too wound up over a post that happened to cast your team in a negative light. I explained why I said what I said. I happen to think of Philly as a team which gives out bad contracts frequently. I amended my original term of “untradeable” because it wasn’t an accurate term for what I was trying to describe. Move the goal posts? Would you rather I had stayed adamant on something which I knew was not fully accurate?

Lecavalier’s contract was “quite manageable”? The Flyers retained half of it to ship him out. Eating half a players salary is a sign of a “manageable contract”? Some interesting goalposts you have as well.

LMAO. Yes, with an AAV of 4.5, Lecavalier’s contract was very manageable. The problem was he no longer had a spot in the lineup. They traded him and got actual assets back. It was a bad contract but by no means among the worst in the league. You can think of Philly as a team that frequently gives out bad contracts all you like. You’re wrong though.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

LMAO. Yes, with an AAV of 4.5, Lecavalier’s contract was very manageable. The problem was he no longer had a spot in the lineup. They traded him and got actual assets back. It was a bad contract but by no means among the worst in the league. You can think of Philly as a team that frequently gives out bad contracts all you like. You’re wrong though.

You really seem to want to engage in a semantic argument. I used to love doing that when I joined the board many moons ago at a much younger age.

Philly fans couldn’t stand Lecavalier. At least the 20 or so that I know from family connections along with all of the connections on this board. To offload the contract, the Flyers ate half of it. The entire point made by numerous Flyers fans at the time was that it was an unnecessary risk given the makeup of the rest of their lineup. And as you acknowledged, they ended up not being able to find a good spot for him based on his production as was hinted at by Flyer fans themselves directly after the signing. If you want to hang on this term “untradeable”, which I immediately retracted once the condensation continued, for the sake of “winning” the argument, have at it.

Andy McDonald had one good playoff run and then played the majority of his second season under that contract in Lehigh. He then got bought out after years of not playing anywhere close to that contract. Easily one of the worst contracts in the league.

At least you admit to Bryzgalov.

JVR is a good player, but he’s likely over the hill and is on a massive contract. Either a very underwhelming return is coming back or salary is getting retained to trade him. As I said, good player. Undeniably oversized contract.

Pretty much the same story with Kevin Hayes, though what was a very good regular season last year seems to not be repeating this year according to the locals.

You can hate my post all you want, accuse me of “moving the goal posts” when I immediately clarify my own terminology after realizing it wasn’t the right word. Somehow turn it into a spat of how “your team has had bad contracts too”. It doesn’t change the fact that Philly has many examples of AWFUL contracts in what I consider recent times and I happen to think of them as a team which has eaten more than their fair share of bad deals.

In reality, what this comes down to is me expressing an opinion (which is like anyone else’s opinion...almost inevitably flawed) and you taking it extremely personally because you are a fan of said team.

What honest, and somewhat objective hockey fan, would take the time to argue that a contract like Andy McDonald’s contract actually wasn’t that bad when it got bought out, the player spent significant time in the AHL, and he was roundly considered to be underperforming for nearly its entire tenure? The only fan who would ever take the time to argue such a thing is an egregiously biased hometown fan.

And of course there are things you can grill the Bruins FO on too. If you want to have a conversation ripping Peter Chiarelli and co. for the Seguin trade, PM me. I could go on forever.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Hopefully you kept reading and my subsequent post answered your question and helped you understand the events behind my viewpoint.

The backtracking was pretty fun to watch

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

The backtracking was pretty fun to watch

What do you mean?

Yes, very few contacts are actually untradeable. Low budget teams that need to get to the cap floor help with that. Along with the ability to retain salary.

Still feels like there’s a very purposeful dwelling on the term for semantic purposes because the overall awfulness of these contracts isn’t deniable

 

[mja]

You really seem to want to engage in a semantic argument. I used to love doing that when I joined the board many moons ago at a much younger age.

Philly fans couldn’t stand Lecavalier. At least the 20 or so that I know from family connections along with all of the connections on this board. To offload the contract, the Flyers ate half of it. The entire point made by numerous Flyers fans at the time was that it was an unnecessary risk given the makeup of the rest of their lineup. And as you acknowledged, they ended up not being able to find a good spot for him based on his production as was hinted at by Flyer fans themselves directly after the signing. If you want to hang on this term “untradeable”, which I immediately retracted once the condensation continued, for the sake of “winning” the argument, have at it.

Andy McDonald had one good playoff run and then played the majority of his second season under that contract in Lehigh. He then got bought out after years of not playing anywhere close to that contract. Easily one of the worst contracts in the league.

At least you admit to Bryzgalov.

JVR is a good player, but he’s likely over the hill and is on a massive contract. Either a very underwhelming return is coming back or salary is getting retained to trade him. As I said, good player. Undeniably oversized contract.

Pretty much the same story with Kevin Hayes, though what was a very good regular season last year seems to not be repeating this year according to the locals.

You can hate my post all you want, accuse me of “moving the goal posts” when I immediately clarify my own terminology after realizing it wasn’t the right word. Somehow turn it into a spat of how “your team has had bad contracts too”. It doesn’t change the fact that Philly has many examples of AWFUL contracts in what I consider recent times and I happen to think of them as a team which has eaten more than their fair share of bad deals.

In reality, what this comes down to is me expressing an opinion (which is like anyone else’s opinion...almost inevitably flawed) and you taking it extremely personally because you are a fan of said team.

What honest, and somewhat objective hockey fan, would take the time to argue that a contract like Andy McDonald’s contract actually wasn’t that bad when it got bought out, the player spent significant time in the AHL, and he was roundly considered to be underperforming for nearly its entire tenure? The only fan who would ever take the time to argue such a thing is an egregiously biased hometown fan.

And of course there are things you can grill the Bruins FO on too. If you want to have a conversation ripping Peter Chiarelli and co. for the Seguin trade, PM me. I could go on forever.

Boy that's a lot of words.

You trying to turn this into a semantic debate is laughable. You literally brought up Clarkson as a potential "Philly Special" - as if the Flyers have ever had anything like that on their books aside from Bryz.

Philly post-Holmgren out of all teams in the league has actually gotten decent value out of UFA with guys like Streit, Elliott, JVR, & Hayes, and I don't even like Hayes' contract due to the NMC. Giroux and Voracek's contracts were lambasted in some quarters and all they've done since inking those deals was score a combined 728 points. The last time the Flyers signed an objectively bad substantial UFA contract was 7 years ago. Take the well-deserved L on this one and move on.

 

[Starat327]

Holy christ just shut this down

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

Boy that's a lot of words.

You trying to turn this into a semantic debate is laughable. You literally brought up Clarkson as a potential "Philly Special" - as if the Flyers have ever had anything like that on their books aside from Bryz.

Philly post-Holmgren out of all teams in the league has actually gotten decent value out of UFA with guys like Streit, Elliott, JVR, & Hayes, and I don't even like Hayes' contract due to the NMC. Giroux and Voracek's contracts were lambasted in some quarters and all they've done since inking those deals was score a combined 728 points. The last time the Flyers signed an objectively bad substantial UFA contract was 7 years ago. Take the well-deserved L on this one and move on.

Man, the desperation to defend one’s own team against all logic has reached impressive levels with this last post.

Have fun guys.

And yeah, Voracek and Giroux have worked out. The argument is Philly signing a disproportionate amount of bad UFA contracts...not that they’ve never been successful.

Again, arguing they got “good value” out of Streit?

There are like two posters in this thread who are arguing entirely against the legions of Philly fans that I’ve met both personally in real life and on this board

 

[Spargon]

I see this a lot, but just think, since the Flyers signed him:

138 games, 49g+44a=93pts

For 82 games, that paces for: 29g+26a=55 pts

JVR has been exactly as expected. Yes due to covid, his deal is now high but at the time the Flyers paid a bit more to make sure there was no NMC like usual UFA's get.

And just remember, a few years ago UFA's like Skinner got 9 million.

Some people just hate JVR but he is the same that he was in Toronto and replacing his 29 goals a year would not be as easy as some think.

He isn't the flashiest about it but he has sneaky good hands in close with his tips and goals in tight.

 

[Tripod]

Odd that he mentions Hayes not being as good this year as last year...considering Hayes has 11 pts in 12 games this year....a 75 point pace.

Yes he is overpaid, but with no covid, contract would have continued to increase but things are stalled now. Also, in 81 games with the Flyers he has 29 goals and 52 points. Pretty mush was expecting a 25+25 guy.

 

[glenbuis]

I’m a little curious regarding philly decision making specifically regarding hextall . I thought he was doing a great job building through the draft and managing cap . Seemed like a surprise a bit when he got the axe . What happened there ?

 

[biturbo19]

I see this a lot, but just think, since the Flyers signed him:

138 games, 49g+44a=93pts

For 82 games, that paces for: 29g+26a=55 pts

JVR has been exactly as expected. Yes due to covid, his deal is now high but at the time the Flyers paid a bit more to make sure there was no NMC like usual UFA's get.

And just remember, a few years ago UFA's like Skinner got 9 million.

Some people just hate JVR but he is the same that he was in Toronto and replacing his 29 goals a year would not be as easy as some think.

Plus, the Flyers really gamed the system by hoodwinking the Leafs. Trading him there, and then just re-signing him again later as a UFA. Ha! Really got one over on them, basically getting uh...Luke Schenn for free!!!

Wait...nevermind.


But actually, yeah...JVR is fine for what he is, and expected to be. The contract is a bit rich, like almost every top UFA contract. Just like the Hayes "overpay". It is what it is. But JVR does what he does, quite well. He's good for his standard 25-29G allotment of tip-ins and cleaning up around the slot/net area, and that's fine. Not a lot else brought to the table there, but chipping in those sort of goal totals is certainly a useful contribution. Also not really the type of game/contribution that i'd worry as much as some others, about him being able to sustain as he continues to get older. He just has to be able to loiter around and tip pucks and bury rebounds.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

Odd that he mentions Hayes not being as good this year as last year...considering Hayes has 11 pts in 12 games this year....a 75 point pace.

Yes he is overpaid, but with no covid, contract would have continued to increase but things are stalled now. Also, in 81 games with the Flyers he has 29 goals and 52 points. Pretty mush was expecting a 25+25 guy.

Because he doesn't know what he's talking about. All of his opinions are based on others' opinions.

"From what I've heard" "They tell me" is the beginning of every analysis of our players according to that guy.

 

[Tripod]

I’m a little curious regarding philly decision making specifically regarding hextall . I thought he was doing a great job building through the draft and managing cap . Seemed like a surprise a bit when he got the axe . What happened there ?

He refused to take any advice and would not deviate from him plan...and would not tell his bosses why. He treated alum like garbage as well.

And remember, when Hextall was fired, Hakstol was still coach and he would not call up Hart. His "pro" decision making was poor, overall. They drafted very well...but we all know the scouts get a lot of that credit. He was good at "selling" assets for value....but not at other things.

 

[Tripod]

HAHAHA....JVR SCORES AGAIN...to go with his earlier assist!

4th in league scoring!

 

[BrindamoursNose]

HAHAHA....JVR SCORES AGAIN...to go with his earlier assist!

4th in league scoring!

But he's useless apparently ::

 

[Tripod]

But he's useless apparently ::

Only Marner, Leon and Connor with more points.

Kinda funny