Speculation: Jakob Chychrun being held out of the Coyotes lineup until a trade is completed

Status
Not open for further replies.

rt

Clean Hits on Substack
FWIW the top insider Bruins poster thru out 2023 1st, 2024 1st, Lorhei, Harrison for Chychrun as a deal he would make but that AZ would say no to. If that really wouldn’t be enough, I can understand why Boston seems to have moved on to Gavrikov.
I think that’s a sensible deal for both teams. If that’s JUST for Chychrun, it’s the right value.

Issue is ALSO asking AZ to take on dumps OR retain salary OR throw in Bjugstad without adding any extra value. That’s where I see it falling apart.

Those suits the Yotes management team wore to the Draft were a pretty big tell that they are running a clown show.

And no better way to build a winning culture then to try and lose, and dangling your best player as trade bait for a year plus. I bet the guys in the dressing room are pumped about playing for such a professional outfit.

Nice to see the players on the ice spoiling managements plan.
What a stupid post. Haha.
 

TheGroceryStick

Registered User
Jan 19, 2009
13,898
3,534
Ontario Canada
Imo: [value]
Sandin = 1st
Knies = 2nd + 3rd (or late first)
2nd = 2nd

I'd move this if we can find a third party to take retention and/or Kerfoot/Holl to make the cap work. (Pick to 3rd team for taking cap)

Probably not enough, but whatever.
That Bruins speculated value is bloated...
 

Kegs

Registered User
Nov 10, 2010
3,850
4,544
Imo: [value]
Sandin = 1st
Knies = 2nd + 3rd (or late first)
2nd = 2nd

I'd move this if we can find a third party to take retention and/or Kerfoot/Holl to make the cap work. (Pick to 3rd team for taking cap)

Probably not enough, but whatever.
That Bruins speculated value is bloated...
The only true difference is Boston has two firsts. Sandin I do not like personally. But to each their own.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TheGroceryStick

kingpest19

Registered User
Sep 21, 2004
12,344
764
Yet it hasn't made a damn bit of difference to the team now, and just like the Danault signing it was an attempt to fast-forward the rebuild due to the whining of the Cup vets. They have the exact same record right now with Fiala as at this time last year when half their defense was on the IR.

All it has really achieved is a top heavy team that won't win anything because it is playing its prized prospects in the spots down the lineup that would need to be given to quality role players. The Kings are dressing 8 offensive wingers at the moment, none of which can be considered favorites to win board battles or grind out games with a lead. If they don't score 5 they are in a tough spot to win.

But sure, those sexy moves by Fiala have really made a huge difference.
Kings fans have screamed for years that the team needed more scoring and Fiala has helped provide that. When was the last time the Kings had a PPG winger in his prime at 25 years old?

Quality role players aren't going to help the absolutely atrocious goaltending the team has had outside of Copley. This is basically the same team as last year with the biggest difference being the play of Quick and Petersen. If either one of them had played average, it would be a completely different story standings wise. Going from 2.59 and .910 and 2.89 and .895 to 3.49/.878 and 3.75/.868 is the single biggest reason why the team has the same record they did last year at this time.

But hey that's all Fialas fault for not having average goalie play right?
 

rt

Clean Hits on Substack
Imo: [value]
Sandin = 1st
Knies = 2nd + 3rd (or late first)
2nd = 2nd

I'd move this if we can find a third party to take retention and/or Kerfoot/Holl to make the cap work. (Pick to 3rd team for taking cap)

Probably not enough, but whatever.
That Bruins speculated value is bloated...
Hmmm…I’d give Knies 1st round value before I’d give it to Sandin.

Question for Yotes fans... Which kind of return would you prefer:

Return #1 - (2 Late 1sts + couple of good prospects)
Late 1st round pick (28th-32nd overall)
Mid-Late 1st round pick (22nd-32nd overall)
A-/B+ level Prospect
B+ level Prospect

Return #2 - (A level prospect plus a Mid-late 1st and 2nd, and another prospect)
Mid-Late 1st round pick (22nd-28th overall)
Mid-Late 2nd round pick (54th-60th overall)
A level Prospect
B level Prospect

Return #3 - (Better 1st rounder, two 2nds, and a few good prospects, with a 1 year cap dump)
Early-mid 1st round pick (10th-17th overall)
Mid-2nd round pick (45th-52nd overall)
2025 2nd (45th-60th overall)
A-/B+ level Prospect
B+ Level Prospect
B level Prospect
1 year cap dump


Basically would you put more value on the higher pick/prospect, or does there need to be two 1sts regardless? Just interested to see, as they have EIGHT 2nds the next few years, which will be close to the same value as a contenders' 1sts.
Impossible to answer this without knowing your criteria for prospect grades and without knowing which draft years.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bye Bye Blueston

Raccoon Jesus

Draft em but don't play em
Oct 30, 2008
62,897
65,010
I.E.
Kings fans have screamed for years that the team needed more scoring and Fiala has helped provide that. When was the last time the Kings had a PPG winger in his prime at 25 years old?

Quality role players aren't going to help the absolutely atrocious goaltending the team has had outside of Copley. This is basically the same team as last year with the biggest difference being the play of Quick and Petersen. If either one of them had played average, it would be a completely different story standings wise. Going from 2.59 and .910 and 2.89 and .895 to 3.49/.878 and 3.75/.868 is the single biggest reason why the team has the same record they did last year at this time.

But hey that's all Fialas fault for not having average goalie play right?

What he's saying is the Kings plugged the wrong holes with a 'sexy' move instead of a functional move. It's rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

Blake traded for scoring then hung up his "mission accomplished" sign and went surfing the rest of the summer completely neglecting the bereft goaltending and LHD pipelines and here we are now linked to every G/LHD that can fog a mirror.

It's pushed the prospects down again resulting in the depressed values you see in this thread and elsewhere, made the holes MORE apparent to every Gm around the league who is more than willing to throw Blake an anchor rather than a lifejacket, and put everyone else in the driver's seat in a negotiation given the Kings have 'improved' to...exactly the same record as they had this time last year minus infinity injuries.

That's why we're still linked to this ticking time bomb.
 

Guttersniped

I like goalies who stop the puck
Sponsor
Dec 20, 2018
22,562
50,153
You don’t sit him for a month and then keep him.

That should be seen as blatant tanking and make sure the lottery won’t award them

Somebody call the NHL Police!

Here’s all’s the teams winning % since Chychrun last played.

BE19DFD9-2C83-4E0F-B36F-C350C1FF6BF1.jpeg

5418FF77-0A6F-4BED-8684-A97B613FD1B8.jpeg

96F0AD26-7483-448B-9B0F-DFFF201DA67E.jpeg

8 points in 5 games also puts the Coyotes in a 4 ways tie for 4th in points as well.
 

hbk

HFBoards Sponsor
Sponsor
Feb 28, 2002
23,127
9,817
Visit site
Somebody call the NHL Police!

Here’s all’s the teams winning % since Chychrun last played.


8 points in 5 games also puts the Coyotes in a 4 ways tie for 4th in points as well.
It's street hockey rules right? Last goal wins except it's the top 8 in each conference make the playoffs since Chychrun was healthy scratched. It's actually a better idea than the expanded playoffs.
 

Guttersniped

I like goalies who stop the puck
Sponsor
Dec 20, 2018
22,562
50,153
Or take the ask for Chychrun have Sharks retain down to 8-9 & pay the rest of the ask for a second team to retain.

At the ask for Chychrun, any team can buy down Karlsson's contract.

Edit: Horvat vs Chychrun
Fiala, Lizotte, Vilardi
Vs
Fiala, Horvat, Vilardi
Or
Durzi, Roy
Vs
Chychrun, Roy

Chychrun may be better defensively than Durzi, but still not a shutdown guy. Durzi is a good PPQB. Kings have multiple good left shots on PP. Fiala, Horvat, Vilardi would have a bigger impact on the King's winning games than swapping Durzi for Chychrun.
Another team is going to retain salary for 4 more years after this so someone can get a discounted Karlsson? Voluntarily, on purpose?

What do they get for 4 years of a lost retention spot and dead cap space?

You can just say you want the Kings to pass on Chychrun and/or believe that will happen.

Not sure what a foward who is no longer available has to do with it.
 

Atoyot

Registered User
Jul 19, 2013
13,859
25,274
To WPG
Chychrun @2.99(35% retained)
‘24 SJS 4th (prev. acquired)

To ARI
Heinola
Lambert
‘23 WPG 1st
I'd probably do that as a Jets fan. Big fan of Heinola and Lambert but we'd benefit so much from having another top 4 defenseman. He might even be good enough to make Pionk look like a top 4 player again.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jakey53 and Nowotny

Raccoon Jesus

Draft em but don't play em
Oct 30, 2008
62,897
65,010
I.E.
Somebody call the NHL Police!

Here’s all’s the teams winning % since Chychrun last played.


8 points in 5 games also puts the Coyotes in a 4 ways tie for 4th in points as well.


Which is kind of the opposite of the flex you're promoting it as, because it just emphasizes that force feeding Chychrun preferential deployment is to the detriment of the team and he's not the difference maker his reported desired trade value suggests he is.
 

FSL KINGS

Registered User
May 10, 2021
2,771
2,502
And Karlsson retained to $8-9m as you proposed is a solid contract. While Petersen at $5m is an albatross.

A more equitable proposal would be something like Karlsson unretained with Petersen coming back in return. That roughly balances out Karlsson and Petersen both being overpaid by about $10m on their contracts.
Cal's contract isn't that hard to get out of. Worst case we just send him on a Canadian "fishing" trip like Richards. 😂 Seriously, bury him in minors 1 year, replace with Pheonix, then buy him out the last year.

Karlsson at 8-9 is a decent contract. Part of the reason SJ is looking to move him is because that may not be the case when he is ending that contract at 37.

Forget the names. The point I'm making. Player A makes 5 million & it's a great cap friendly contract so the ask is extra.

Player B makes 8 million which costs more against the cap. His team is a cap floor, rebuilding team that is happy to get a return on the player & doesn't care about short term cap issues because they aren't near the cap while rebuilding.

Player B 8 M - salary taken back can easily be less than player A's cap hit. This makes the fact that Player A is on a good contract meaningless.

It doesn't make sense to pay for a good contract then not have AZ take any salary back so you have to pay the cost of AZ dumping 5 million.

I'm really curious to see if this actually gets done. It looks like AZ's GM is being a bit unreasonable. There are dumb GM's that make crazy trades like multiple first level assets for Lucic when Connor, Barzal, Chabot are still on the board. 😂 Sorry DL, threw you under the bus. Just takes one GM. Hopefully it's not Blake.
 

kingpest19

Registered User
Sep 21, 2004
12,344
764
What he's saying is the Kings plugged the wrong holes with a 'sexy' move instead of a functional move. It's rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

Blake traded for scoring then hung up his "mission accomplished" sign and went surfing the rest of the summer completely neglecting the bereft goaltending and LHD pipelines and here we are now linked to every G/LHD that can fog a mirror.

It's pushed the prospects down again resulting in the depressed values you see in this thread and elsewhere, made the holes MORE apparent to every Gm around the league who is more than willing to throw Blake an anchor rather than a lifejacket, and put everyone else in the driver's seat in a negotiation given the Kings have 'improved' to...exactly the same record as they had this time last year minus infinity injuries.

That's why we're still linked to this ticking time bomb.
I'd say trading for a ppg winger is a functional move at the same time being a sexy move thats helped improve the anemic offense.

Blake most definitely neglected the G and LHD that needs improving. I think everyone expected a drop off this year in goal but not as bad as it has been. The goalie market was real thin this past off season outside of Husso and Keumper. I don't recall any LHD that were available besides Chycrun that would improve the defense in any way.

Sadly with McClellan behind the bench, the prospects are pretty much going to get pushed down. Iafallo and/or Arvidsson need to go to get Vilardi, Kaliyev etc playing up in the lineup.
 
  • Like
Reactions: funky and kinghock

japhi

Registered User
Jul 7, 2014
3,778
3,131
I think that’s a sensible deal for both teams. If that’s JUST for Chychrun, it’s the right value.

Issue is ALSO asking AZ to take on dumps OR retain salary OR throw in Bjugstad without adding any extra value. That’s where I see it falling apart.


What a stupid post. Haha.
BTW congrats on the Weber trade, that has to give you confidence in management going forward. Wonder if they were wearing matching outfits when they made that deal? At minimum I hope they had their clown noses on when they submitted paper to the league.
 

FlyguyOX

Registered User
Jun 29, 2018
4,190
4,184
To WPG
Chychrun @2.99(35% retained)
‘24 SJS 4th (prev. acquired)

To ARI
Heinola
Lambert
‘23 WPG 1st
Winnipeg takes that and runs. Aren’t you a yotes fan? That’s bad.

Heinola can’t beat out Samberg/Stanley. Lambert ghosted at WJC and has lots of other red flags. And a late first.
 
Last edited:

BB88

Registered User
Jan 19, 2015
41,385
21,704
Winnipeg takes that and runs. Aren’t you a yotes fan? That’s bad.

Heinola can’t beat out Samberg/Stanley. Lambert ghosted at WJC and has lots of other red flags. And a late first.

Lambert is currently dominating in the juniors.
21 points in 13 games.
 

Gaylord Q Tinkledink

Registered User
Apr 29, 2018
31,990
35,176
First game he sat out was the 11th.

What AZ is doing isn’t unprecedented. It’s happened before and nobody cared. That’s the point. It’s only an issue because people have now decided it’s now an issue. Why? Because it’s Arizona.

AZ could just say it’s for player safety reasons. Don’t want a distracted player to get hurt.

Regardless all that is going to happen is teams will lie going forward. Zero transparency. Player scratched for GM discretion. Transparency dies.
Only other time was Hall with the Devils. They lied, sure and said he was hurt.

The way it's trending, he isn't going to be dealt by the deadline.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kegs
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad