Speculation: Jakob Chychrun being held out of the Coyotes lineup until a trade is completed

[MarkusNaslund19]

The Kings have a plan to win. Phoenix is trying to suck for a draft pick and don’t have an NHL arena. One team has plans to win the Stanley Cup. The other is trying to fight to not get moved to another city. Don’t understand what would work for Phoenix that’s going to make them a winner? I mean they are trying to suck to survive. They are going to lose this player before they could be a winner anyway (if they had a direction). They are a perineal black hole.

The leverage the league has against Phoenix is “let him rot in the sun”.

I think they just call that 'the asshole'.
One of my favourite misspellings I have ever seen. Thank you.

Ah, the classic rebuttal of "do you even watch him?". As if that outweighs the fact that he's been horribly underwhelming in the AHL as the players drafted around him are top-6 F or top-4 D in the NHL.

Why does Turcotte have more value than someone like Vitali Kravtsov, who most people only think has the value of a 3rd round pick?

Are you serious?

You think it's a 'classic rebuttal' for someone to believe that maybe they have a better idea than you on a player you've never seen? Are you a real poster or an A.I. designed to embody the energy of hfboards?

 

[Empoleon8771]

Are you serious?

You think it's a 'classic rebuttal' for someone to believe that maybe they have a better idea than you on a player you've never seen? Are you a real poster or an A.I. designed to embody the energy of hfboards?

Do you seriously think that the people here who post "have you watched them play" have actually watched them play?

 

[MarkusNaslund19]

Do you seriously think that the people here who post "have you watched them play" have actually watched them play?

I know that when I post it and get called out by JFresh heads it drives me up the wall. I can't speak for everyone, but you do know that there are people here who both post and watch the games, right?

 

[No Name The Nameless]

Do you seriously think that the people here who post "have you watched them play" have actually watched them play?

How does anyone amass 70k posts on a message board? If every post takes you 45 seconds, that’s almost 1000 hours of posting. Do you sit at a desk or a lazy boy? How is your posture? I’m seriously intrigued.

 

[OG Eberle]

So did my brain.

This needs to be pinned as a warning in the OP after I just spent 20mins trying to "catch up" on Chychrun saga only to have my prefrontal cortex melt through my nose reading the last 6 pages of semantics and shitposting

 

[Empoleon8771]

How does anyone amass 70k posts on a message board? If every post takes you 45 seconds, that’s almost 1000 hours of posting. Do you sit at a desk or a lazy boy? How is your posture? I’m seriously intrigued.

I am an automated AI that just makes fun of dumb homer takes on this website

 

[Canucks LB]

I am an automated AI that just makes fun of dumb homer takes on this website

I knew it!!!!!

 

[Empoleon8771]

I know that when I post it and get called out by JFresh heads it drives me up the wall. I can't speak for everyone, but you do know that there are people here who both post and watch the games, right?

The problem is 95% of people who use the "do you even watch him?" takes are from homer fans who don't like the arguments others are making about a player on their team.

I'm totally willing to buy the argument that a player's stat line isn't reflective of their performance, sure. But you need to actually provide more than that than just arbitrarily saying "do you even watch them?". It's not that watching a player isn't valuable, it's that a majority of people who make that claim haven't watched them any more and are just making that claim to discredit the other side.

Specifically with Turcotte, you can look at him from a statistical point of view and conclude that his reputation right now isn't great and he's not all that valuable right now. Just arbitrarily saying "do you even watch him?", without providing any supporting points for your argument beyond that, is totally worthless.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Surprise! Presented you with some stats and a reasonable discussion and you hand wave it off.

What were the "stats" you provided? You claimed that I knew nothing about the Kings prospects and that's literally it. There is no "reasonable discussion" there. It's literally just you saying "you don't know what you're talking about because you have a different opinion than me".

Funny enough I actually agree wholeheartedly with the boldfaced. If you were just actually engaging in good faith instead of trying to score bullshit cheap internet points could have been much more productive.

I think the dissonance in the conversation is 'what's his trade value' vs. 'what is he going to be as a player on a competitive team.'

I don't think there's any evidence he's an all-situations #1 dman on a contender. #2? Sure. Ideally, #3. Like I said, more in common with Muzzin than Doughty.

But they want Eichel value for Muzzin/Seth Jones. I just disagree that's worth it. And maybe someone does it--It's not beyond the realm of possibility for the teams who are ready to strike, like boston, TO, Edmonton. But the Kings aren't in that group yet. If the Kings were win-now, window open? Sure, push all the chips in, even Clarke. But even with JC, there are major holes on the roster and depth.

What he'd be for a competitive team is totally irrelevant in the conversation about what his value is. A discussion of what a Chychrun to LA trade would look like depends entirely on what the Coyotes would want for him and what teams would want to pay for him. It's totally reasonable to not value him any higher than a Muzzin caliber defenseman, but Arizona won't and you won't get him if you're only willing to pay that price. That's why this Chychrun saga is still ongoing.

Again, this comes back to the whole "what would you pay for him?" versus "what would a realistic deal look like?" discussion that I mentioned before. I'm trying to piece together what seems like a realistic deal. What fans want to do is irrelevant from that. To me, the trades that Kings fans have proposed in here don't match what I think the Coyotes would want for Chychrun. The discussion in here isn't "what do I think of Chychrun?", it's "what do I think Chychrun would actually be traded for if he's going to LA?"

 

[Little Psycho]

I am an automated AI that just makes fun of dumb homer takes on this website

Oh thank god! You should take a look at the Pens board.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Oh thank god! You should take a look at the Pens board.

Nope my homer AI only works where people are actually being homers around other fans. Penguins fans on the Pens board are just depressed, so the AI won't gain any energy from reading their melodramatic takes.

In a serious note, I find it hilarious that a Kings fan is telling others to go back to their own board in a Coyotes thread because they don't like what they're saying about the Kings.

 

[ICanMotteBelieveIt]

I am an automated AI that just makes fun of dumb homer takes on this website

 

[rt]

Kaliyev and either Spence or Grans, and LA’s ‘23 1st. Arizona will agree to accept Walker and Lemieux as dumps, free of charge.

 

[SaltyElkHunter]

Kaliyev and either Spence or Grans, and LA’s ‘23 1st. Arizona will agree to accept Walker and Lemieux as dumps, free of charge.

You saw arty tag that pp goal tonight didn’t you

 

[thefutures]

Nope my homer AI only works where people are actually being homers around other fans. Penguins fans on the Pens board are just depressed, so the AI won't gain any energy from reading their melodramatic takes.

In a serious note, I find it hilarious that a Kings fan is telling others to go back to their own board in a Coyotes thread because they don't like what they're saying about the Kings.

It's hilarious that they come at you rather than tell their own "few" to pipe down. Their inability to gauge value has been on the forefront in literally any main board LA trade thread. Personal favorite is iafallo for askarov.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Kaliyev and either Spence or Grans, and LA’s ‘23 1st. Arizona will agree to accept Walker and Lemieux as dumps, free of charge.

I'm not a Coyotes fan, but this honestly just doesn't do a lot for me. This isn't a criticism of any piece, I really like Kaliyev personally, but it just seems like quantity for quality. I'd rather get the best piece I can get back for Chychrun instead of taking back multiple lesser pieces.

If the return is Kaliyev, Grans and a 1st, I think it's incredibly unlikely that any of those guys reach the level of Chychrun. If you're not getting that upside, why make the trade? It's not that the value is bad, but it's almost like trading a dollar for 4 quarters.

 

[rt]

You saw arty tag that pp goal tonight didn’t you

I feel like AZ obviously would want Clarke or Byfield but they’re off the table. Untouchable. Okay. Vilardi. Also untouchable? Wow. That’s a lot of untouchables. How about Kaliyev? He’s the only one left who’s actually worth a 1st, I think. Turcotte sure as heck isn’t.

I'm not a Coyotes fan, but this honestly just doesn't do a lot for me. This isn't a criticism of any piece, I really like Kaliyev personally, but it just seems like quantity for quality. I'd rather get the best piece I can get back for Chychrun instead of taking back multiple lesser pieces.

If the return is Kaliyev, Grans and a 1st, I think it's incredibly unlikely that any of those guys reach the level of Chychrun. If you're not getting that upside, why make the trade?

Arizona wants two firsts and a second from a playoff team. Kaliyev is worth a 1st from a playoff team. As is a playoff team’s 1st (obviously). That leaves Spence or Grans as the 2nd equivalent. Which they surely are. This just plain meets the criteria of the ask.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Arizona wants two firsts and a second from a playoff team. Kaliyev is worth a 1st from a playoff team. As is a playoff team’s 1st (obviously). That leaves Spence or Grans as the 2nd equivalent. Which they surely are. This just plain meets the criteria of the ask.

You're right but it just seems kinda underwhelming. I'd rather be trying to get someone who has the upside to outperform that value, those guys seem to just have the upside of meeting that value.

Replace Spence or Grans with Turcotte and I think it's better, mostly because Turcotte has the potential to outperform the value of a 2nd more than Grans or Spence.

 

[ColbyChaos]

Oh please. Get off that cross.

If you go back you'll notice literally dozens of reasonable responses to you over several pages that you chose not to respond to and instead got your pitchfork out for the makar comment.

The reason you met resistance was because we started providing some nuance as to why guys aren't producing the way you thought they should and then you started pouting about it. That's fine, you're a Pittsburgh fan, you don't have to know about all Kings prospects, but you should at least listen to feedback instead of double down on huffy shitposting.

Really what it boils down to is this--
1. The Kings aren't ready for a 'finishing' move which is what moving a bluechip prospect would entail, at least vs. some other 'window-open' teams like Boston, Toronto, or even Edmonton;
2. Moving Clarke is foolish altogether given the Kings current contracts/salary structure;
3. We can all disagree on what Chychrun is to some degree but i don't see anything truly unreasonable on his abilities, just on his value and the relative value of several Kings' prospects.

For me personally I can understand why AZ is asking what they're asking but I wouldn't give up much more than the basis for the Muzzin trade, maybe one additional 1st/asset. La doesn't need yet another dman they can't play in all situations, if you're selling out the farm you had better get a guy who can hold down the fort with a lead, PK, PP, and whatever else you can throw at him and not even AZ treats him that way.

It’s Empoleon odds are he put anyone who outsmarted him in a debate on ignore…

He’s only responding to a select few posters at this rate

 

[rt]

Replace Spence or Grans with Turcotte and I think it's better...

Huh? Nah, man. No thanks. No way.

 

[Schmooley]

I feel like AZ obviously would want Clarke or Byfield but they’re off the table. Untouchable. Okay. Vilardi. Also untouchable? Wow. That’s a lot of untouchables. How about Kaliyev? He’s the only one left who’s actually worth a 1st, I think. Turcotte sure as heck isn’t.


Arizona wants two firsts and a second from a playoff team. Kaliyev is worth a 1st from a playoff team. As is a playoff team’s 1st (obviously). That leaves Spence or Grans as the 2nd equivalent. Which they surely are. This just plain meets the criteria of the ask.

Vilardi was offered and Arizona turned him down last season right?
If Nils Lundkvist got a 1st then Spence should be worth around the same.
Spence is better than him.
Grans is not as good as either of them at the moment but he does have raw tools. He is not worth as much as Spence.
This is why that guy above saying you dont have to watch players to have an opinion is an idiot and for some reason has the loudest opinion on players he doesnt watch.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It’s Empoleon odds are he put anyone who outsmarted him in a debate on ignore…

He’s only responding to a select few posters at this rate

 

[ColbyChaos]

How does anyone amass 70k posts on a message board? If every post takes you 45 seconds, that’s almost 1000 hours of posting. Do you sit at a desk or a lazy boy? How is your posture? I’m seriously intrigued.

August 25th 2015 was 2730 days ago

With 70479 posts that averages to….

25.8 posts a day

 

[rt]

.

I’m not with you on the Lundkvist v Spence thing. But I am ok with Grans in this deal, if you want to keep Spence. Kaliyev, Grans and the ‘23 1st is ok for me. Even if you need to dump Lemieux and Walker on AZ. Those are shorter term and not that expensive. So I’m good with it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

August 25th 2015 was 2730 days ago

With 70479 posts that averages to….

25.8 posts a day

Honestly I'm curious, what poster did you used to be? I cleared out my ignore list a while ago and only have the Pens board posters that just post non-stop "oh my god Hextall is sleepy!!!!!!!!!" nonstop on ignore.

I legitimately have no clue who you are or any sort of past interactions we've had.