Player Discussion Jake "Big Tuna" Virtanen | XVII Nikolaj Who...?

[ProstheticConscience]

This team still has no idea how to deal with prospects that aren't exactly 100% what they expect them to be. Year after year after year, same old shit. The rot starts at the top and goes downhill.

 

[WTG]

Watch him come back, play the exact same way and some of his scoring chances go in, then all this rhetoric of him playing badly goes out the window.

Virtanen's underlying statistics are absolutely fine for the icetime he's getting. Sure, he's no Ehlers/Nylander but he is a NHL player. This benching/scratching is incredibly dumb and COMPLETELY unwarranted.

Virtanen with 8:54 ES TOI/GP, is 6th in individual scoring chances above Thomas Vanek, Granlund, Baertschi. Jake's also 3rd in high danger chances for. You could make a case that he's doing everything but not score with his icetime, so he gets scratched. It's a joke... This is a player that should be given an increased role because of the success he's having in his limited role, not the other way around. Whoever's decision it was to sit should be grilled, it's a poor decision.

"The player we drafted to be Milan Lucic isn't Milan Lucic. Don't let him play until that happens."

This is probably what management/coaching staff thinks, and it is what will make Jake bust even harder then he already has.

They'd rather he turn into Jack Skille then David Booth, and that's their mistake, because despite all the shit Booth got, he was actually not a bad player for the majority of his career.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Last year yes, much of it was on him.

This year, he came into camp in shape, was effective and had a good preseason, and looked effective and was generating shots and chances to start the season. Seemed to be doing everything asked of him and was playing well.

And instead of getting consistent icetime (here or in Utica) and a consistent message, he's getting jerked around and mis-handled for the third year in a row.

Virtanen was in shape, he had a good preseason, and he's failing over the long haul. Part of this is on the org/coach for sitting a prospect and fumbling their way to developing him. Part of this is on Virtanen who has not shown well over longer game samples. He's inconsistent. A good preseason is not a good season. It's why I wanted him sent down to show his consistency over a greater sample. To have him prove it to the fans first. He has not done that at any point in his pro career.

Talking about this, I'm reminded about Martin St. Louis's story. He kept struggling with coaches and the way they wanted him to play. So he got to this turning point where he knew that if he did not secure a job in a given year, he likely would be out of the league. At that point he decided to completely abandon what the coaches were telling him to do and he played his game, his way. Then he took off. Became one of the best players in the league.

Maybe Virtanen has to hit that point where he just completely ignores what is being said to him and just play loose and fast -- and hope everything works out for him in the end.

 

[Billy Kvcmu]

Virtanen was in shape, he had a good preseason, and he's failing over the long haul. Part of this is on the org/coach for sitting a prospect and fumbling their way to developing him. Part of this is on Virtanen who has not shown well over longer game samples. He's inconsistent. A good preseason is not a good season. It's why I wanted him sent down to show his consistency over a greater sample. To have him prove it to the fans first. He has not done that at any point in his pro career.

Talking about this, I'm reminded about Martin St. Louis's story. He kept struggling with coaches and the way they wanted him to play. So he got to this turning point where he knew that if he did not secure a job in a given year, he likely would be out of the league. At that point he decided to completely abandon what the coaches were telling him to do and he played his game, his way. Then he took off. Became one of the best players in the league.

Maybe Virtanen has to hit that point where he just completely ignores what is being said to him and just play loose and fast -- and hope everything works out for him in the end.

Disagree, he's been consistanly decent enough to play on this team, especially with the amount of dead weights we have now.
The only part you can blame on Jake is that he isn't any lander/Edler level good

 

[Scurr]

Players that consistently finish checks create offence by creating turnovers. Especially when they're big and can skate. I think it's fair to expect players like Virtanen -and Kassian before him- to participate… it's a large part of why they were drafted so high in the first place.

I don't want them running around like chickens with their heads cut off either… but I don't see anything wrong with asking them to play physical.

 

[settinguptheplay]

Despite his low scoring totals I thought Virtanen has looked good this year. Playing with the Sedin's is not the treat it once was. They look so slow playing with Virtanen and seem to have lost their bread and butter cycle game. Often times leaving Virtanen chasing pucks while the Sedin's drag their asses over the blueline. I certainly think his play warrants a spot on the roster. Cannot help but feel this is an off ice punishment.

 

[Melvin]

Despite his low scoring totals I thought Virtanen has looked good this year. Playing with the Sedin's is not the treat it once was. They look so slow playing with Virtanen and seem to have lost their bread and butter cycle game. Often times leaving Virtanen chasing pucks while the Sedin's drag their asses over the blueline. I certainly think his play warrants a spot on the roster. Cannot help but feel this is an off ice punishment.

Sedins work well with a player who is faster than them and can retrieve the puck to start their cycle. They are asking Virtanen to play Jannik Hansen's role.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Players that consistently finish checks create offence by creating turnovers. Especially when they're big and can skate. I think it's fair to expect players like Virtanen -and Kassian before him- to participate… it's a large part of why they were drafted so high in the first place.

I don't want them running around like chickens with their heads cut off either… but I don't see anything wrong with asking them to play physical.

Asking a PWF to participate physically in a game is very different from expecting it as a primary mode. The former treats physicality as a complement to one's game while the latter treats the PWF's game as complementary to his physicality. The expectation becomes hitting first, when the expectation should be to play better first. It's the same mistake WD made with Kassian. It's being repeated now. Only, Kassian had a better track record to that point with actual hockey.

Disagree, he's been consistanly decent enough to play on this team, especially with the amount of dead weights we have now.
The only part you can blame on Jake is that he isn't any lander/Edler level good

I don't know what the last sentence means?

Note: I said he's too inconsistent. I didn't say he was worse than every forward on the team. He's better than Dorsett and Burmistrov. When I'm talking about developing his consistency, I'm saying that the AHL would be the best place for him to iron out his game. The press box isn't helping him. If he had shown consistency over a large sample of AHL games then there would be less angst over what is happening to him now. Fans would recognize that he's still on the right track for development. Now, who knows? They should not have graduated him only to have him sit out.

 

[absolute garbage]

Worst game of the season for Virtanen? Old habits creeping back, standing around with no purpose, very stationary stop-and-go hockey. Fumbling pucks and soft play along walls. Does nothing out there. Maybe overthinking things again, counting hits?

 

[ihaveyuidonttouchme]

huh just noticed he hasnt took any penalties yet?

 

[Gaunce4gm]

huh just noticed he hasnt took any penalties yet?

Yeah. But he's undisciplined and bad defensively. Just ask Travis.

 

[Grub]

Just putting things into perspective. I think the 2014 was really a hit or miss for us.

People say we miss Nylander, Ehlers, to be honest during that time I think a lot of us wanted Bennett or Dal Colle to slip to us... these players are not doing great as well, in fact you could say worst. Bennett and Dal Colle seemed to be no brainers as well.

Why am I confident on Benning in terms of drafting? He drafted Mcann, Forsling, Traymkim who are both NHL players, Boeser a late pick who is doing extremely well, Gaudette is looking more and more like he could make it to the NhL. Sometimes we may cringe during high picks, but I think in terms if drafting Benning does has talent for the later rounds.

 

[Luck 6]

Just putting things into perspective. I think the 2014 was really a hit or miss for us.

People say we miss Nylander, Ehlers, to be honest during that time I think a lot of us wanted Bennett or Dal Colle to slip to us... these players are not doing great as well, in fact you could say worst. Bennett and Dal Colle seemed to be no brainers as well.

Why am I confident on Benning in terms of drafting? He drafted Mcann, Forsling, Traymkim who are both NHL players, Boeser a late pick who is doing extremely well, Gaudette is looking more and more like he could make it to the NhL. Sometimes we may cringe during high picks, but I think in terms if drafting Benning does has talent for the later rounds.

My gut told me Nylander was going to be great. With that being said, Ill admit I wanted Bennett more. I also would have jumped at the opportunity to draft Dal Colle if he fell to us, so ya, point made.

 

[Jyrki21]

This week's episode is Jake-centric, so we'll post it here. As always, click twice to enlarge:

 

[LeftCoast]

Just putting things into perspective. I think the 2014 was really a hit or miss for us.

People say we miss Nylander, Ehlers, to be honest during that time I think a lot of us wanted Bennett or Dal Colle to slip to us... these players are not doing great as well, in fact you could say worst. Bennett and Dal Colle seemed to be no brainers as well.

Why am I confident on Benning in terms of drafting? He drafted Mcann, Forsling, Traymkim who are both NHL players, Boeser a late pick who is doing extremely well, Gaudette is looking more and more like he could make it to the NhL. Sometimes we may cringe during high picks, but I think in terms if drafting Benning does has talent for the later rounds.

Benning has absolutely nailed the picks outside of the top 6, but when your most questionable pick is your first, and the highest profile in over a decade, it is going to stay with you. His record on top 6 picks is mixed - Pettersson was dope, Juolevi is looking better but still less than Tkachuk, and Virtanen is swing and an miss.

 

[M2Beezy]

Imagine if Benning breathed out of his nose. Next year could look like:

Tkachuck Pettersson Boeser
Horvat Gaudette Lind
Baertchi Nylander Lockwood
Eriksson/Chabut Sutter Dorsett

 

[wonton15]

Imagine if Benning breathed out of his nose. Next year could look like:

Tkachuck Pettersson Boeser
Horvat Gaudette Lind
Baertchi Nylander Lockwood
Eriksson/Chabut Sutter Dorsett

I usually ignore your posts, but that first sentence genuinely made me laugh out loud.

...and then you put those line combinations and I am now out

 

[M2Beezy]

I usually ignore your posts, but that first sentence genuinely made me laugh out loud.

...and then you put those line combinations and I am now out

Haha thats funny cause since I joined this site I ignored your posts until the changes recently

 

[Canucks1096]

Watch him come back, play the exact same way and some of his scoring chances go in, then all this rhetoric of him playing badly goes out the window.

Virtanen's underlying statistics are absolutely fine for the icetime he's getting. Sure, he's no Ehlers/Nylander but he is a NHL player. This benching/scratching is incredibly dumb and COMPLETELY unwarranted.

Virtanen with 8:54 ES TOI/GP, is 6th in individual scoring chances above Thomas Vanek, Granlund, Baertschi. Jake's also 3rd in high danger chances for.


.

Virtanen gets 70% offensive zone starts. That will help a lot

 

[sandwichbird2023]

Benning has absolutely nailed the picks outside of the top 6, but when your most questionable pick is your first, and the highest profile in over a decade, it is going to stay with you. His record on top 6 picks is mixed - Pettersson was dope, Juolevi is looking better but still less than Tkachuk, and Virtanen is swing and an miss.

I still don't understand how somebody can "nail picks outside the top 6" but struggle to hit on early picks? Shouldn't picking at the top be EASIER, not harder, than pick #100+? It's like somebody being good at calculas but can't add. It just doesn't make sense to me.
I feel more realistically, the GM has more input on the higher pick as supposed to later picks (prime example is Benning not knowing what league Tryamkin plays in). And the less input he has (the later rounds) the better our draft hit-rates becomes. That's the only logical explanation to me.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Just putting things into perspective. I think the 2014 was really a hit or miss for us.

People say we miss Nylander, Ehlers, to be honest during that time I think a lot of us wanted Bennett or Dal Colle to slip to us... these players are not doing great as well, in fact you could say worst. Bennett and Dal Colle seemed to be no brainers as well.

Why am I confident on Benning in terms of drafting? He drafted Mcann, Forsling, Traymkim who are both NHL players, Boeser a late pick who is doing extremely well, Gaudette is looking more and more like he could make it to the NhL. Sometimes we may cringe during high picks, but I think in terms if drafting Benning does has talent for the later rounds.

He drafted McCann, Forsling, and Tryamkin. They're doing...what exactly for the team now? Ooo he can draft well! Yeah, too bad Benning's other weaknesses negate that great drafting.

 

[CanaFan]

He drafted McCann, Forsling, and Tryamkin. They're doing...what exactly for the team now? Ooo he can draft well! Yeah, too bad Benning's other weaknesses negate that great drafting.

Yep. He liked Forsling so much he traded him for garbage 6 months later, even after an outstanding WJC.

 

[scorvat53]

imo Green should move Virtanen to the sutter line. His been actually pretty good at getting the puck out and forechecking hard. Ask Jake to crash and bang I think he'll be a lot more effective then asking him to play the cycle game w/ the sedins. I'd swap him for gagner.

 

[sting101]

imo Green should move Virtanen to the sutter line. His been actually pretty good at getting the puck out and forechecking hard. Ask Jake to crash and bang I think he'll be a lot more effective then asking him to play the cycle game w/ the sedins. I'd swap him for gagner.

i agree with this.

i think the only reason it hasn't happened is because they need his speed in the neutral zone.

 

[scorvat53]

i agree with this.

i think the only reason it hasn't happened is because they need his speed in the neutral zone.

I agree they need some space to work with but still they barely use him on the breakout. Flying down the wing is the best part of Jake's game imo and for what ever reason the sedins don't trust him enough to give him the puck in transition.

Thankfully Green loves to mix up his lines.