Player Discussion Jake "Big Tuna" Virtanen | XVII Nikolaj Who...?

[Cupless44]

Playing with the Sedins isnt exactly the plum role it used to be. As Botch says, it should no longer even be a topic anymore.

 

[tantalum]

At least, as someone mentioned in the GDT, it's nice to see someone in the NHL actually acknowledge that their 'playoff push' is more important than Virtanen's development.

That was me....

And I'm still flabbergasted that a member of this organization has yet again offered up that they are not doing the best things for his development. Last time it was a well after the fact that they screwed up that first NHL year. This is even worse as it's ongoing and recognized in real time and they don't care.

Not that I think he develops into anything meaningful at this point anyways but they are not even giving it a chance. Of course this is the same coach that scratched their now leading scorer for the first couple of games. Oh right that was for rest purposes...funny how the more tiring regular season doesn't seem to be tuckering him out.

 

[MS]

Kudos to Botchford for tearing a strip out of the organization over this mess in today's Provies.

The quotes from Virtanen about getting a hit every shift are just depressing.

Like, the guy was getting things figured out. He was skating well, pushing the play, getting shots. The thing he needed to work with with the coaching/video staff was cutting toward the middle of the ice to get higher-percentage shots away instead of shooting too soon from the perimeter. If he could have managed that, he would have been on the cusp of a major breakthrough.

Instead, screw creating offence. MOAR HITZ! HITZ ON EVERY SHIFT!

What a complete joke. I feel sorry for the player. Getting drafted by this team has potentially ruined his career.

 

[Huggy43]

Getting drafted by this team has potentially ruined his career.

Jake didn't really help himself either. Can't put 100% blame on the team.

 

[tantalum]

Eerily similar to how they told Kass to play...

And no I'm not trying to bring up the Kassian debate, just that they have this obsession with big guys with decent or good speed being primarily hitting machines.

 

[Knight53]

Hopefully, he's in next game

 

[Nuckles]

Okay, maybe Jake just misunderstood what the coach wanted out of him again. Maybe Green said to be more physical and he interpreted it as throw more hits?

The quote from the provies makes it seem that way...
“I talked to Green today … There’s got to be hits. I have to find more hits."
“Be a little more physical. That’s how he wants me to play like.”

 

[DL44]

Okay, maybe Jake just misunderstood what the coach wanted out of him again. Maybe Green said to be more physical and he interpreted it as throw more hits?

The quote from the provies makes it seem that way...
“I talked to Green today … There’s got to be hits. I have to find more hits."
“Be a little more physical. That’s how he wants me to play like.”

I think from hearing bits of that Virtanen conversation, he initially said something like in reviewing video he could see where he left hits on the table and coaches wanted him to take the opportunity to follow through on them more... and then suggested he could have a hit on every shift based on video.. so i think it was basic logic roll over:

Coaches point out on video where he missed a hit opportunity...
Jake observed there was a opportunity every shift he reviewed..
=
Jake interpretation : He should have a hit every shift - without it have been directly said that way.

Green may be right - technically.
Either way - there is a communication gap. Hopefully they are clearing it up face to face instead of in the media.

/speculation. Logical - but speculation.

 

[valkynax]

Hopefully, he's in next game

11 million dollar 4th line.

#PlayOffs

 

[VanJack]

At what point does it stop being about the organization, and more about the player?....first it was Willie, now it's Green who was his coach in Utica last season and supposedly got him turned around....but I guess not. Just send him to Utica for Pete's sake and call up Goldobin.....they were both first-rounders from the same draft year (2014) anyway.....being drafted sixth overall means 'squat' to me.

 

[CanaFan]

People need to stop blaming coaching and start blaming the player. Unless he figures out that being a pro is not just about how you play on the ice, but how you act off the ice, the guy will never be a regular.

It's not a coincidence that even tho he is playing pretty well, he continues to get little ice time and sits some games, it's not a on ice issue with him, It hasen't been for months now.

what has he done off the ice that is so bad?

 

[Canucks LB]

what has he done off the ice that is so bad?

Don't wanna get into it, Ill just let it go.

The guy is a good kid, I hope he figures it all out.

 

[I in the Eye]

I think he'll get lots of games in the second half of the season... a.k.a. the annual rebuild phase. We're still in the first half of the season... a.k.a. the annual playoff team phase.

Once the annual playoff chase is over, focus will shift to showcasing and promoting the youth.

 

[I in the Eye]

Don't wanna get into it, Ill just let it go.

The guy is a good kid, I hope he figures it all out.

Oh christ... those poor trees. Who ever thinks about the trees? This time around can we get a counsellor (more skilled than the hot dog named Stan), and save a draft pick, and a tree?

 

[Wo Yorfat]

what has he done off the ice that is so bad?

I assume he's talking about coming in so out of shape last yr it took a good 6 months before he could play more than 10 min/game without being completely gassed.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Eerily similar to how they told Kass to play...

And no I'm not trying to bring up the Kassian debate, just that they have this obsession with big guys with decent or good speed being primarily hitting machines.

We can't forget Tryamkin, didn't Willie D come right out and publicly suggest he should fight more?

We handled him great. Turned out well.

 

[CanaFan]

I assume he's talking about coming in so out of shape last yr it took a good 6 months before he could play more than 10 min/game without being completely gassed.

But that hasn’t been an issue this year so doesn’t really explain the extended trip to the press box. Honestly this one feels more like expectations around his playstyle than anything else. Which is a shame.

 

[I in the Eye]

But that hasn’t been an issue this year so doesn’t really explain the extended trip to the press box. Honestly this one feels more like expectations around his playstyle than anything else. Which is a shame.

It doesn't make sense to me... it's not even useful to be looking to make hits every shift. The only benefit of making a hit is when you can influence the puck. As a big body, yes, take time and space away... lean on people, and wear them down. But, to expect him to be looking to make more hits, when his hit totals have been pretty damn good, to me, is crazy... and when looking for hits, unless the hit is there, he'll be putting himself out of position... he'll be taking stupid penalties. A player constantly looking to make hits is a more ineffective player... as his focus is to find hits, not finding the effective play unfolding.

... and what about shifts where Virtanen has the puck? During these shifts, he doesn't need to hit anybody, because he has the puck. Having the puck a shift, holding the puck down low, taking the puck to the net... are these not good, hard working shifts for Virtanen, even though no hit is recorded?

I agree, it's a shame. In the games I've watched, and the stats seem to back it up, I haven't left thinking geez, Virtanen needs to be more physical or he should be out of the line-up. To me, it seems more like an excuse not to dress him than anything else... like a belief that the team will turn into a pumpkin if a certain threshold of young players are playing at the same time.

 

[Melvin]

What a bizarre situation.

We could have signed some random 4th line banger for 500k and have him throw 3 hits a game while Virtanen can just play his game.

Instead we spend the offseason signing a bunch of crappy soft offensive wingers and then tell Virtanen to fill the 4th line banger role.

Maybe if we are so concerned with not being soft we shouldnt have spent 10m on Sam Gagner.

What can you even say.

 

[iFan]

It’s just sad to see Virtanen making progress in his career for the first time since we drafted him and the coach/management does this to him, I wonder how much of this is on Benning and Linden for wanting certain players who suck and have big contracts on the ice. Really, I don’t care much anymore about this garbage team.

 

[Nuckles]

"The player we drafted to be Milan Lucic isn't Milan Lucic. Don't let him play until that happens."

 

[PM]

I'd say some of the fault definitely lies with Jake. He just doesn't strike me as a very smart guy and there is definitely a sense of entitlement there. I also think his shoulder was and will forever be an issue with him and limit his physical game which is unfortunate because it was public knowledge before we drafted him unlike Hodgson's back issues. I hope I'm wrong as we desperately need some physicality on this team but I'm not sure Jake is the answer or even a small part of it.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Kudos to Botchford for tearing a strip out of the organization over this mess in today's Provies.

The quotes from Virtanen about getting a hit every shift are just depressing.

Like, the guy was getting things figured out. He was skating well, pushing the play, getting shots. The thing he needed to work with with the coaching/video staff was cutting toward the middle of the ice to get higher-percentage shots away instead of shooting too soon from the perimeter. If he could have managed that, he would have been on the cusp of a major breakthrough.

Instead, screw creating offence. MOAR HITZ! HITZ ON EVERY SHIFT!

What a complete joke. I feel sorry for the player. Getting drafted by this team has potentially ruined his career.

You know, I can't help but feel that part of this is on Virtanen as well. He still hasn't figured out his game on any consistent level. Which leaves the door open for a coach's criticism. I think Green is looking for hits because he doesn't see enough value in what Virtanen does outside of his few tallies. It's not so much about hitting at the expense of production because I think if Virtanen had produced more, he wouldn't be questioned as readily. He wouldn't have been sat, IMO. It's the fact that the coach cannot rely on any one aspect of Virtanen's game that hitting becomes the simplest thing he can convey.

Virtanen was never too bright (on ice). I think they're trying to dumb the game down for him.

 

[MS]

You know, I can't help but feel that part of this is on Virtanen as well. He still hasn't figured out his game on any consistent level. Which leaves the door open for a coach's criticism. I think Green is looking for hits because he doesn't see enough value in what Virtanen does outside of his few tallies. It's not so much about hitting at the expense of production because I think if Virtanen had produced more, he wouldn't be questioned as readily. He wouldn't have been sat, IMO. It's the fact that the coach cannot rely on any one aspect of Virtanen's game that hitting becomes the simplest thing he can convey.

Virtanen was never too bright (on ice). I think they're trying to dumb the game down for him.

Last year yes, much of it was on him.

This year, he came into camp in shape, was effective and had a good preseason, and looked effective and was generating shots and chances to start the season. Seemed to be doing everything asked of him and was playing well.

And instead of getting consistent icetime (here or in Utica) and a consistent message, he's getting jerked around and mis-handled for the third year in a row.

 

[Josepho]

Obviously Jake isn't 100% innocent here, but we have f***ed up his development in various ways the past three years and he should've just been playing his game at whatever weight he's naturally at.

I'm willing to bet that if he was in a system like Tampa's his whole career he'd be looking like a 20-20 guy.