Player Discussion Jake "Big Tuna" Virtanen | XVII Nikolaj Who...?

[DL44]

72-10 AHL and ECHL.

I kid. I think he'll spend the year with the Comets unless he shows a game consistent enough to warrant a call up. I wish he was a dominant NHLer, but wishing doesn't make it so.

82 Utica.

Just don't think Virtanen's got it.

You guys are funny..
Let me give you some perspective...

The kid was given 10 gms last yr DESPITE being rushed back from a shoulder injury... and despite his brutal conditioning...

Yet.. a yr later.. after a healthy and properly focused summer of training with an additional yr of experience/insight you think he'll get LESS of an opportunity?

Hmmm... guess we'll find out soon enough.

( I mean there is legit criticism/frustration.. but there is also outright, blind disdain for the kid too)

 

[F A N]

The kid was given 10 gms last yr DESPITE being rushed back from a shoulder injury... and despite his brutal conditioning...

Yet.. a yr later.. after a healthy and properly focused summer of training with an additional yr of experience/insight you think he'll get LESS of an opportunity?

I'm really worried about his shoulder. We saw that he wasn't the same physical force as he was in his rookie year last year. From what the Comets fans have been telling us, he wasn't a physical force either. What made Virtanen such a coveted prospect was his physical game. If that is diminished due to shoulder problems, it's a huge problem because that involves Virtanen changing his game. Hopefully he comes into camp strong and stays healthy.

 

[Canucks LB]

back at it again with the 2 decks?

Again lol and yes looks ripped as **** tho

 

[RobertKron]

You guys are funny..
Let me give you some perspective...

The kid was given 10 gms last yr DESPITE being rushed back from a shoulder injury... and despite his brutal conditioning...

Yet.. a yr later.. after a healthy and properly focused summer of training with an additional yr of experience/insight you think he'll get LESS of an opportunity?

Hmmm... guess we'll find out soon enough.

( I mean there is legit criticism/frustration.. but there is also outright, blind disdain for the kid too)

I'd suggest that it's not especially unreasonable to have seen a shift in attitude or approach from management toward Virtanen midway through last season, around the time they sent him down for a short stint, called him back up, and then more or less immediately sent him back down. Virtanen didn't seem to deal with that very well, and the team appeared pretty clearly frustrated with him. IIRC, I don't think he saw any NHL time after that, despite a ton of call ups. I don't understand why it would be "funny" to expect that to remain the same if Virtanen doesn't show significant improvement over the offseason.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Does the AHL even have 82 games in a season

Or however many games is in the AHL season.

You guys are funny..
Let me give you some perspective...

The kid was given 10 gms last yr DESPITE being rushed back from a shoulder injury... and despite his brutal conditioning...

Yet.. a yr later.. after a healthy and properly focused summer of training with an additional yr of experience/insight you think he'll get LESS of an opportunity?

Hmmm... guess we'll find out soon enough.

( I mean there is legit criticism/frustration.. but there is also outright, blind disdain for the kid too)

The kid's been on a spiraling downward trajectory for the last two years. You want to believe one offseason in the gym will change that? Knock yourself out.

 

[DL44]

The kid's been on a spiraling downward trajectory for the last two years. You want to believe one offseason in the gym will change that? Knock yourself out.

Only problem with that notion is that 15-16 season did happen. And we all saw what a good string of NHL games looks like from Virtanen post world juniors.

Too many people like you have been flat out dismissive of the flashes he displayed in his game coming down the stretch.

So no... I don't see it as one off-season in the gym will reverse some magical 2yr spiral... but it sure as hell can get him back on track erase 16-17 like it never happened.

....
@FAN... I'm also pretty concerned about his shoulder long term. I'm pretty sure he focused a lot on modifying his approach to how he needs to play the game as a pro last season. Can't wait to see what we see.

The type of player I expect... I don't expect a physical hit everything that moves type game... I.e. Like Kassian's last playoff series. I don't expect that.
I expect him to be spotpicker... occasional regular bumps... but attempting maybe one run every game or two... not every shift. He will not survive. People were complaining last season that he wasn't playing physica enoughl, but then you occasionally hear of this hit or that hit. He needs to modify to be that type of player to be a long term NHLer.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Of course the 15/16 season happened. Jake made the team on merit (something that gets glossed over a lot around here) and as the season opened, he was the team's best hitter. McCann had the team's best shot. At the end of the season, both had been jerked around the lineup by a coach who seemed to delight in playing head games with young players for no apparent reason, there was a flap in the media about "entitlement" by the young guys, and both finished the season a lot worse than they went in. I have no idea what games you were watching if you didn't notice both Jake and Jared running out of gas long before April. He then spent the entire summer under the supervision of the Canucks' training staff and showed up to training camp out of shape in an episode of stunning incompetence that makes nobody look good. Then followed a season that saw him scoring less than .3 ppg in the AHL and lost his physical game almost completely.

Just being an NHL player at this point would be a huge turnaround for him, and I also do worry whether his shoulder is the root of the issue.

 

[Paulinvancouver]

Of course the 15/16 season happened. Jake made the team on merit (something that gets glossed over a lot around here) and as the season opened, he was the team's best hitter. McCann had the team's best shot. At the end of the season, both had been jerked around the lineup by a coach who seemed to delight in playing head games with young players for no apparent reason, there was a flap in the media about "entitlement" by the young guys, and both finished the season a lot worse than they went in. I have no idea what games you were watching if you didn't notice both Jake and Jared running out of gas long before April. He then spent the entire summer under the supervision of the Canucks' training staff and showed up to training camp out of shape in an episode of stunning incompetence that makes nobody look good. Then followed a season that saw him scoring less than .3 ppg in the AHL and lost his physical game almost completely.

Just being an NHL player at this point would be a huge turnaround for him, and I also do worry whether his shoulder is the root of the issue.

This.

 

[WhiteCurse]

Looks like Jake is at Sk8on hockey school. Posted a short clip of him ripping some shots, looked good

 

[Paulinvancouver]

Virtanens going to have a strong season for Vancouver this year.

 

[VanillaCoke]

Vancouver giants are in Langley now Paul.

 

[vancityluongo]

This.

Virtanens going to have a strong season for Vancouver this year.

????

 

[LeftCoast]

Of course the 15/16 season happened. Jake made the team on merit (something that gets glossed over a lot around here) and as the season opened, he was the team's best hitter. McCann had the team's best shot. At the end of the season, both had been jerked around the lineup by a coach who seemed to delight in playing head games with young players for no apparent reason, there was a flap in the media about "entitlement" by the young guys, and both finished the season a lot worse than they went in. I have no idea what games you were watching if you didn't notice both Jake and Jared running out of gas long before April. He then spent the entire summer under the supervision of the Canucks' training staff and showed up to training camp out of shape in an episode of stunning incompetence that makes nobody look good. Then followed a season that saw him scoring less than .3 ppg in the AHL and lost his physical game almost completely.

Just being an NHL player at this point would be a huge turnaround for him, and I also do worry whether his shoulder is the root of the issue.

Just FYI. Jake may have trained at Canucks facilities, but not under their trainer's supervision. I believe that under the CBA the trainers are not permitted to supervise off-season work outs. From the end of the season until camp opens, contact between coaches / trainers and players is limited to a single rookie mini-camp.

Also - it was widely reported that Jake was "too heavy" but not necessarily "out of shape". What I'v heard from one source is that Jake found he was unable to play the power game he did in junior against bigger, stronger players in the NHL, so he decided to bulk up in the off-season. Without BMI or body fat measurements it hard to tell the difference between bulked up and overweight, but what was apparent was he lack the stamina and seemed to have lost much of his speed.

 

[DL44]

????

Where's the confusion?

He agrees with the poster's perspective of Jake's handling and career to date and agrees that Jake becoming an NHLer will be a huge acheivement...

But he thinks he'll have a big season despite it.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Just FYI. Jake may have trained at Canucks facilities, but not under their trainer's supervision. I believe that under the CBA the trainers are not permitted to supervise off-season work outs. From the end of the season until camp opens, contact between coaches / trainers and players is limited to a single rookie mini-camp.

Also - it was widely reported that Jake was "too heavy" but not necessarily "out of shape". What I'v heard from one source is that Jake found he was unable to play the power game he did in junior against bigger, stronger players in the NHL, so he decided to bulk up in the off-season. Without BMI or body fat measurements it hard to tell the difference between bulked up and overweight, but what was apparent was he lack the stamina and seemed to have lost much of his speed.

Wasn't that the whole point of Virtanen staying here to train last year? To be under the team's trainers' supervision? That was definitely how it was reported unless I'm losing my mind. I know I saw that multiple times, and I'm not talking about the threads here.

And I definitely don't recall the exact details of how out of shape he was supposed to be, I just remember him not making the team and lack of fitness being cited as to why. Whether it was weight or BMI or Beiber selfie overdose I can't recall...and at the risk of being a dick about it, I don't really care all that much. Whatever the specifics were they added up to a massively disappointing AHL stay.

With or without his stuff.

 

[Luck 6]

Wasn't that the whole point of Virtanen staying here to train last year? To be under the team's trainers' supervision? That was definitely how it was reported unless I'm losing my mind. I know I saw that multiple times, and I'm not talking about the threads here.

And I definitely don't recall the exact details of how out of shape he was supposed to be, I just remember him not making the team and lack of fitness being cited as to why. Whether it was weight or BMI or Beiber selfie overdose I can't recall...and at the risk of being a dick about it, I don't really care all that much. Whatever the specifics were they added up to a massively disappointing AHL stay.

With or without his stuff.

I don't know about that... But I do know that what was said is correct: players are not allowed to be supervised by Canuck trainers in the offseason. They can use facilities I believe, but they need to seek out their own trainers and follow their own programs. I don't know who Virtanen seeked out, if anyone, but whoever it was gave him some **** advice.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

I don't know about that... But I do know that what was said is correct: players are not allowed to be supervised by Canuck trainers in the offseason. They can use facilities I believe, but they need to seek out their own trainers and follow their own programs. I don't know who Virtanen seeked out, if anyone, but whoever it was gave him some **** advice.

I'm more than willing to admit being wrong about what I said in that regard, but I know I saw it reported that Jake stayed here specifically to be under the team's supervision.

Will accept any links in this regard.

????????????????????????????

 

[Pastor Of Muppets]

]Wasn't that the whole point of Virtanen staying here to train last year? To be under the team's trainers' supervision?[/B] That was definitely how it was reported unless I'm losing my mind. I know I saw that multiple times, and I'm not talking about the threads here.

And I definitely don't recall the exact details of how out of shape he was supposed to be, I just remember him not making the team and lack of fitness being cited as to why. Whether it was weight or BMI or Beiber selfie overdose I can't recall...and at the risk of being a dick about it, I don't really care all that much. Whatever the specifics were they added up to a massively disappointing AHL stay.

With or without his stuff.

Thats the way I heard it as well...last year,there was lots of footage of JV doing off season stuff with the team (flag football,sprints etc)...I was also under the assumption that he was under supervision of Canuck trainers...Somebody dropped the ball big time,whatever advice he was taking cost him a year of his development.

 

[DL44]

Wasn't that the whole point of Virtanen staying here to train last year? To be under the team's trainers' supervision? That was definitely how it was reported unless I'm losing my mind. I know I saw that multiple times, and I'm not talking about the threads here.

And I definitely don't recall the exact details of how out of shape he was supposed to be, I just remember him not making the team and lack of fitness being cited as to why. Whether it was weight or BMI or Beiber selfie overdose I can't recall...and at the risk of being a dick about it, I don't really care all that much. Whatever the specifics were they added up to a massively disappointing AHL stay.

With or without his stuff.

The in-season comment by Benning was Virtanen stayed with the Canucks to trained by them DURING the 15-16 season. If you recall, they weren't happy with the weight he came to Utica with at the end of his Jr season.

During the summer of 2016 there were no such comments on who was training Virtanen during the summer...
he appeared to be on his own and that was somewhat supported by his explanation of his added size at his 16-17 camp.. along the lines of he thinks he feels better carrying more weight.

He stayed local for the summer because he lives locally.

 

[DadBod]

It doesn't matter much if he worked out with the Canucks trainers because if you have terrible habits outside the gym all his work is for nothing. If you eat like crap, party, stay up late, and general poor habits then the gym means nothing. Case in point...Virtanen. He spent the whole summer working out and when the season started he couldn't even complete a full practice or have the stamina to keep up during the game. He showed up to camp embarrassingly out of shape, he was very very over weight. The kid is 6' and weighed 231lbs. Hell, the reason he was nick named "big country" is because he was a fat mess. During the season his team mates poked at his weight. I'm the same height and weigh 210lbs, I couldn't imagine another 20-25 pounds of fat...that's inexcusable for an "athlete".


I don't want him to fail, I don't want the embarrassment of this franchise failing so hard at this draft pick. I do believe though that he will not become and effective pro player. I know people who train/workout/play roller with him. The stories of his nightlife, attitude and habits coupled with a bummed shoulder and low IQ makes me believe he'll be a bust of epic proportions.

 

[Pump n Dump]

I'm more than willing to admit being wrong about what I said in that regard, but I know I saw it reported that Jake stayed here specifically to be under the team's supervision.

Will accept any links in this regard.

????????????????????????????

I don't doubt that you did see that reported, but many sports reporters in this city appear to have less knowledge of the CBA than many of the posters here. They could easily have assumed that, because Virtanen was here, it was so that he could be trained by the Canucks.

 

[vancityluongo]

Where's the confusion?

He agrees with the poster's perspective of Jake's handling and career to date and agrees that Jake becoming an NHLer will be a huge acheivement...

But he thinks he'll have a big season despite it.

Based on?? Blind belief?

 

[Shareefruck]

Of course the 15/16 season happened. Jake made the team on merit (something that gets glossed over a lot around here) and as the season opened, he was the team's best hitter. McCann had the team's best shot. At the end of the season, both had been jerked around the lineup by a coach who seemed to delight in playing head games with young players for no apparent reason, there was a flap in the media about "entitlement" by the young guys, and both finished the season a lot worse than they went in. I have no idea what games you were watching if you didn't notice both Jake and Jared running out of gas long before April. He then spent the entire summer under the supervision of the Canucks' training staff and showed up to training camp out of shape in an episode of stunning incompetence that makes nobody look good. Then followed a season that saw him scoring less than .3 ppg in the AHL and lost his physical game almost completely.

Just being an NHL player at this point would be a huge turnaround for him, and I also do worry whether his shoulder is the root of the issue.

I disagree that he made the team on merit-- I recall many of us feeling that, judging by his preseason, he wasn't anything close to ready for the NHL but was getting preferential treatment and hastily gifted a spot to show off as a shiny new toy. It was a far cry from McCann, who essentially forced his way onto the team.

That said, he did look infinitely better then than he ended up looking (and as I recall, had that single effective game where he had chemistry with Baertschi and Horvat), and he did play with more of an edge, but that's a laughably low bar to clear.

 

[vancityluongo]

I disagree that he made the team on merit-- I recall many of us feeling that, judging by his preseason, he wasn't anything close to ready for the NHL but was getting preferential treatment and hastily gifted a spot to show off as a shiny new toy. It was a far cry from McCann, who essentially forced his way onto the team.

That said, he did look infinitely better then than he ended up looking (and as I recall, had that single effective game where he had chemistry with Baertschi and Horvat), and he did play with more of an edge, but that's a laughably low bar to clear.

Yup.

Ben Hutton made the team on merit. McCann was very, very good, but was probably still borderline by the time his 9 game mark rolled around. Jake was not close.

 

[Shareefruck]

Yup.

Ben Hutton made the team on merit. McCann was very, very good, but was probably still borderline by the time his 9 game mark rolled around. Jake was not close.

I recall Hutton, Cracknell, Gaunce, Shinkaruk, and McCann each convincingly outplaying Virtanen by a wide margin over the course of that preseason (again, outside of that one Baertschi-Horvat game), and being annoyed that Virtanen ended up on the starting lineup anyways.