Proposal: Jacob Chychrun to New York Rangers

[Dead Coyote]

Also, am I crazy for thinking all the “two of” business is kinda pointless? I mean, there are two VERY obvious choices, right? It’s Schneider #1 and Othmann #2 like all day every day, right?

I'd like to have Lundkvist as one of them, personally.

 

[Akrapovince]

I’m thinking 3 first round quality assets would be fair value, one of which would be a first round draft pick itself and the rest of the deal comprised of a prospect not named Schneider and a roster player.

2022 1st round pick + Othmann/Nils + Kreider ?

 

[rt]

I’m thinking 3 first round quality assets would be fair value, one of which would be a first round draft pick itself and the rest of the deal comprised of a prospect not named Schneider and a roster player.

2022 1st round pick + Othmann/Nils + Kreider ?

Kreider isn’t a fit

 

[Ice Mammoth]

I’m thinking 3 first round quality assets would be fair value, one of which would be a first round draft pick itself and the rest of the deal comprised of a prospect not named Schneider and a roster player.

2022 1st round pick + Othmann/Nils + Kreider ?

I agree with you. Arizona needs Chris Kreider to be successful this season. Arizona is the main favorite for the 2022 Stanley Cup. Any NHL hockey player will be happy to play on this team.

Kreider will be happy to play for the new club and will undoubtedly cancel his NMC.
"2022 1st round pick + Othmann / Nils + Kreider?"

I think it is necessary to continue the chosen logic of this proposal. We need to increase Arizona's chances of winning the 2022 Stanley Cup. There are a few changes that need to be made.
Chris Kreider + Jacob Trouba + Ryan Strome.

Chris Drury will be happy. Bill Armstrong will be delighted to receive such compensation. Three players will be happy in the new team. All Arizona fans will be happy.

This is sheer happiness. This is complete harmony.

 

[ole ole]

AZ has 3 1sts this yr. Their own, Montreal's and Avs which is liek a 2nd. Unless they are flipping a Rangers pick for a rostered player currently I dont see as much value. The NYRs are playing good hockey and could be right where Avs pick will most probably be. A '23 1st might be more enticing but woudl probably cost another piece. If its NYRs AZ should start with Schneider and continue.

Pretty sure that the Habs own their own pick this season as it's top 10 protected.

 

[FoxysExpensiveNYDigs]

The only D move i could see the Rangers making is an upgrade on Nemeth on the 3rd pair. Nemeth has been mostly solid though so mostly unnecessary. A RW/C is much more needed.

 

[bernmeister]

I’m thinking 3 first round quality assets would be fair value, one of which would be a first round draft pick itself and the rest of the deal comprised of a prospect not named Schneider and a roster player.

2022 1st round pick + Othmann/Nils + Kreider ?

Kreider has nmc, will not move, and provides needed beast factor NY needs

kudos for trying to balance salary.

it won't work due to cap, even if we do Lindgren and his 3 x 3 as a core piece, b'c we need to be able to move him if we have no choice due to $$ needed for LaF + Kakko

this is the price we are paying already b'c we extended Zib instead of trying to move him at 5+ for a haul.
Not that signing Zib is right or wrong, it is an action that has good and bad consequences [cap restraint vs future deals].

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Yeah, I'm not doing that, as reasonable as it may seem.

Because as good as Chychrun is, he hardly addresses the Rangers’ biggest need(s).

 

[Zahra Starker]

AZ has 3 1sts this yr. Their own, Montreal's and Avs which is liek a 2nd. Unless they are flipping a Rangers pick for a rostered player currently I dont see as much value. The NYRs are playing good hockey and could be right where Avs pick will most probably be. A '23 1st might be more enticing but woudl probably cost another piece. If its NYRs AZ should start with Schneider and continue.

They own Carolina's not Montreal's.

 

[Smitty426]

They own Carolina's not Montreal's.

Makes things a bit different now, thx

 

[Smitty426]

Pretty sure that the Habs own their own pick this season as it's top 10 protected.

yup Zahra mentioned as well, thx

 

[bandwagonesque]

Yep. Jones is a sensible piece, simply because he’d be hopelessly buried behind Chychrun, Lindgren and Miller.

Schneider, Othmann, Jones and a 1st is pretty rich, though. So I think we can even it out a little.

First, AZ could take Nemeth as a multi-year dump. Additionally, the 1st could be conditional. Make it a ‘22 1st if NYR wins the ECSF but it’s a ‘23 2nd if NYR fail to qualify for the ECF. Finally, AZ could add a 4th.

These concessions have varying degrees of value. But they’re not nothing (even the 4th rounder will be one pick removed from the 3rd round). They provide a little insurance (the condition), a little value (the first 4th), and a little relief (the Nemeth dump essentially halves Chychrun’s contract).

To NYR:
Chychrun
AZ ‘22 4th

To ARI:
Nemeth (Dump)
Jones
Schneider
Othmann
Conditional ‘23 2nd **
**Becomes ‘22 1st if NYR win ECSF

As a neutral fan that still seems like about one too many pieces for Chychrun. Take away Othmann and add a 3rd and it starts to seem fair.

 

[rt]

As a neutral fan that still seems like about one too many pieces for Chychrun. Take away Othmann and add a 3rd and it starts to seem fair.

Othmann stay. Jones can go.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Othmann stay. Jones can go.

That's too much for Chychrun. Othmann and Schneider alone would probably be reasonable, although I'm not sure I pull the trigger from a NYR perspective.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Othmann stay. Jones can go.

As a purely neutral comment: I think the NYR brass view Othman and Schneider as unavailable.

 

[Hockey Gamer]

I don't think this type of trade is what the Rangers should be targeting. Forward depth is a much bigger concern. They don't really need to do anything to their defense, let alone spend 5 assets for one. That's really an absurd idea to be honest. A total unnecessary expenditure. You don't even give any reasoning for this in your proposal. All the Rangers could use in the form of a defenseman is a 3rd pairing one that has veteran experience for a playoff run. Not a budding young player that is redundant to what they already have.

 

[rt]

That's too much for Chychrun. Othmann and Schneider alone would probably be reasonable, although I'm not sure I pull the trigger from a NYR perspective.

It would be reasonable if you added the 1st.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

I’m thinking 3 first round quality assets would be fair value, one of which would be a first round draft pick itself and the rest of the deal comprised of a prospect not named Schneider and a roster player.

2022 1st round pick + Othmann/Nils + Kreider ?

Zero chance Kreider is waiving his NMC for Arizona, They're probably heading for Houston anyways.

 

[Boris Zubov]

It would be reasonable if you added the 1st.

I think your expectations are a little inflated.

 

[Schemp]

I think your expectations are a little inflated.

I think the expectation of Chychrun being traded are a little inflated as it would require an overpayment, GMBA has set the price!

 

[jay from jersey]

NYR LD
Lindgren- 23 yrs old, proven history/ BFF of Fox, 3 mill cap hit

miller-ELC playing well with Trouba, making solid strides in his development, 21 yrs old

Nemeth/Tinordi. - 2 vet fill is for a year

Jones-Excellent in the A, looked pretty good in his NHL stint so far

Robertson-6’4 210+ shut down D in the vein of Marc Staal that can move the puck.
Runner up to Schneider for WHL D of the year least season. Has shown high end play in Hartford, but needs more time to cook

LD isn’t really a position on the roster where I’d be looking on trading top tier assets to improve....

not only that, Chycrun would not run the PP here over Fox. It’s doubtful that even getting him breaks up the proven chemistry pair of Lindgren-Fox.
While Chycrun-Trouba would be a monster pair, he’s not a giant improvement over what Miller does at 2nd pair LD to justify the cost to get him here.
Is he better currently then miller??? For sure. But the team trading for Chycrun should be doing so to put him on 1st pair and ride him heavy minutes on 1st pair and maximize his traits. Let him run the point on the PP, etc. on the rangers, he just wouldn’t get that opportunity. It’s the same problem Lundkvist will face in the near future..

 

[bernmeister]

To NYR:
Jacob Chychrun

To ARZ:
2022 1st round pick
2023 1st round pick
TWO of Nils Lundkvist, Zac Jones, Brennan Othmann, or Braden Schneider (Arizona choice)
Vitali Kravtsov

did you not get the memo???????
NO NO NO NO
on dealing bluest blue chips

although there may be some flexibility in considering youth for youth and not youth for vet, Rangers are backed up deep at D esp LD and do not need Chych, and are better off w/depth and elc contracts.

We need to move both Geo for a 2nd and Strome for a late 1st or equiv, and give their mins to replacements, as we have zero cap next season to keep and self rental is indulgent stupidity. ....

I bumped this back b'c there appears to be fresh update on the going rate for Chych, which supposedly is Villardi, Turcotte + 1st from LA. Whether or not NYR should consider to top that offer depends imo less on degree of overpay that will be both unavoidable and justified, as much as to whether or not 'yotes will accept currency that works for NY.

Villardi is 11OA but inexplicably, despite having chances at varsity level, has not stuck and is in the A. He IS a quality project at the right price, but he is not a given to stick at the N. Turcotte is undersized, will never be a C, and so far does not look like he makes NHL. 1st is 1st. LA coming along nicely, their 1st prob only a few behind NY's.

Obv, the OP's deal was on its face not even remotely close to the actual market price which is way way way less. NY should not remotely go there, although that said, it needs to be recognized there must be at least sufficient profit for AZ to go there w/a Chyc deal.

So before we fill in the blanks w/details, let's examine what COULD make a deal work for NY:
- we basically need to do youth for youth;
[we can't add older guys which = cannibalizing youth which hastens close of our window just now opening; dealing vets to keep lineup rejuvenated is the ideal, but youth for youth can also work].
This checks out b'c Chyc is mid 20s on good short term deal.

- we need to be able to fit him into the cap next yr aware that until we can move Trouba (2 yrs hence unless he allows earlier), there is ZERO cap space next yr. We need to move specific cap [Lindgren, who also is needed to make spot for Chyc at 1LD]. BUT THEN WE IDEALLY NEED TO PAY AZ TO EAT HALF RETAIN ON CHYC FOR HIS CURRENT DEAL. Chyc is 4.6, max retained = 2.3, which is even better than Lindy's 3 per.
Again, this is ideally, but 2.3 retention x 3 years after this is a doable enuf #, that NY should be able to satisfy any reasonable fee AZ wants to do it.

- Ideally, we are dealing from excess [LD] and not from area of diminished supply [F]. A guy like Chytil should be out b'c when Strome goes --- and he will whether it is in this deal or not b'c there is zero possibility he can be retained w'o putting forced trades of LaF +Kakko in play --- as Chytil is needed b'c we are thin at pivot.
This may also check out b'c AZ needs a lot of help in multiple areas and as long as there is sufficient amount and quality in a return, that will be more dominant consideration than any specific targeted piece(s).

Accordingly, I propose the following:

Lindgren
Jones
NYR 2022 and 2023 1sts both unprotected
Strome 4.5 expiring ufa max retained = 2.25
Georgiev 2.425 expiring rfa max retained = 1.2125
Reunanen elc LD

for

Chychrun at half

Analysis:
for Coyotes:
keepers:
- Lindgren is quality 1LD immediate add
- Jones, while not elite, is a better prospect who has demonstrated sufficient skating etc skills will def be quality NHL player, lefty shot plays either D
- Reunanen a notch below that, no room on NY roster, competes for position
- and of course 2 1sts

follow up deals
- Strome at half is a bargain, at half of that is insane. AZ has one retention slot if I am reading CF correct and this is an expiring salary so the option is recovered for next season. No way Strome retained/x 2 does not return a quality future. I could see AZ 2022 3rd + 4th + Strome get a late 1st from a contender.

- Geo at half is cheap enuf to have a small bidding war of multiple suitors

Notice this is a trim offer, no fat, no side deals like give us expiring Kessel for Nemeth.

----------
NY needs to go with these pieces. Although Jones + Nils L are similar and both play either side, we need Nils' righty shot and he fits at 3RD when Schneider replaces Trouba at 2RD. It would be preferable to have Nils at the ready on the off chance Trouba agrees to move early. We also need Robertson to fit 3LD so he is not available.

There will be squawking about dealing Geo. It is hoped that if VAN drops out of p'o race Halak will be available at affordable price. Halak not available before. This above deal needs to be done immediately so 'yotes have max time to get best returns on Strome + Geo. But the bottom line here is we have established Geo plays much better w/regular work as a starter. The fact that there is only one set of starter minutes, and they indisputably belong to Shesty, makes keeping Geo problematic. Worst case scenario, we upgrade to Chyc and go with Kinkaid/Huska as backup, rest Shesty final reg season wk entering playoffs, then play backup minimally. Huska played well in the A, got shelled in his only 1 game here, but that was vs Avs, who also beat Shesty.

Finally, for the love of all that is holy, we must recognize that Strome can't remain and even cap aside we should just move on. Don't give a rat's rump if breadman prefers he stays; we need to push forward. Kravtsov is forward; Strome is staying in place in the short term, but is very shortly after falling backward. We are better off giving Strome mins to Chytil and Barron, Krav when he gets here and until then I would immediately give Pajuniemi mins to see if there is lightning in a bottle, while he gets experience.

In playoffs Rangers will need to roll w/Goodrow enforcing top line so Panarin not beat up.
Here is what line up should be post deal going into playoffs:

Goodrow - Zib - Panarin
Kreider - Chytil - Krav
LaF - Barron - Kakko
Hunt - Rooney - Reaves

Chychrun - Fox
KAM - Trouba
Nils L - Schneider

Shesty

 

[Bettman Returnz]

I bumped this back b'c there appears to be fresh update on the going rate for Chych, which supposedly is Villardi, Turcotte + 1st from LA. Whether or not NYR should consider to top that offer depends imo less on degree of overpay that will be both unavoidable and justified, as much as to whether or not 'yotes will accept currency that works for NY.

Villardi is 11OA but inexplicably, despite having chances at varsity level, has not stuck and is in the A. He IS a quality project at the right price, but he is not a given to stick at the N. Turcotte is undersized, will never be a C, and so far does not look like he makes NHL. 1st is 1st. LA coming along nicely, their 1st prob only a few behind NY's.

Obv, the OP's deal was on its face not even remotely close to the actual market price which is way way way less. NY should not remotely go there, although that said, it needs to be recognized there must be at least sufficient profit for AZ to go there w/a Chyc deal.

So before we fill in the blanks w/details, let's examine what COULD make a deal work for NY:
- we basically need to do youth for youth;
[we can't add older guys which = cannibalizing youth which hastens close of our window just now opening; dealing vets to keep lineup rejuvenated is the ideal, but youth for youth can also work].
This checks out b'c Chyc is mid 20s on good short term deal.

- we need to be able to fit him into the cap next yr aware that until we can move Trouba (2 yrs hence unless he allows earlier), there is ZERO cap space next yr. We need to move specific cap [Lindgren, who also is needed to make spot for Chyc at 1LD]. BUT THEN WE IDEALLY NEED TO PAY AZ TO EAT HALF RETAIN ON CHYC FOR HIS CURRENT DEAL. Chyc is 4.6, max retained = 2.3, which is even better than Lindy's 3 per.
Again, this is ideally, but 2.3 retention x 3 years after this is a doable enuf #, that NY should be able to satisfy any reasonable fee AZ wants to do it.

- Ideally, we are dealing from excess [LD] and not from area of diminished supply [F]. A guy like Chytil should be out b'c when Strome goes --- and he will whether it is in this deal or not b'c there is zero possibility he can be retained w'o putting forced trades of LaF +Kakko in play --- as Chytil is needed b'c we are thin at pivot.
This may also check out b'c AZ needs a lot of help in multiple areas and as long as there is sufficient amount and quality in a return, that will be more dominant consideration than any specific targeted piece(s).

Accordingly, I propose the following:

Lindgren
Jones
NYR 2022 and 2023 1sts both unprotected
Strome 4.5 expiring ufa max retained = 2.25
Georgiev 2.425 expiring rfa max retained = 1.2125
Reunanen elc LD

for

Chychrun at half

Analysis:
for Coyotes:
keepers:
- Lindgren is quality 1LD immediate add
- Jones, while not elite, is a better prospect who has demonstrated sufficient skating etc skills will def be quality NHL player, lefty shot plays either D
- Reunanen a notch below that, no room on NY roster, competes for position
- and of course 2 1sts

follow up deals
- Strome at half is a bargain, at half of that is insane. AZ has one retention slot if I am reading CF correct and this is an expiring salary so the option is recovered for next season. No way Strome retained/x 2 does not return a quality future. I could see AZ 2022 3rd + 4th + Strome get a late 1st from a contender.

- Geo at half is cheap enuf to have a small bidding war of multiple suitors

Notice this is a trim offer, no fat, no side deals like give us expiring Kessel for Nemeth.

----------
NY needs to go with these pieces. Although Jones + Nils L are similar and both play either side, we need Nils' righty shot and he fits at 3RD when Schneider replaces Trouba at 2RD. It would be preferable to have Nils at the ready on the off chance Trouba agrees to move early. We also need Robertson to fit 3LD so he is not available.

There will be squawking about dealing Geo. It is hoped that if VAN drops out of p'o race Halak will be available at affordable price. Halak not available before. This above deal needs to be done immediately so 'yotes have max time to get best returns on Strome + Geo. But the bottom line here is we have established Geo plays much better w/regular work as a starter. The fact that there is only one set of starter minutes, and they indisputably belong to Shesty, makes keeping Geo problematic. Worst case scenario, we upgrade to Chyc and go with Kinkaid/Huska as backup, rest Shesty final reg season wk entering playoffs, then play backup minimally. Huska played well in the A, got shelled in his only 1 game here, but that was vs Avs, who also beat Shesty.

Finally, for the love of all that is holy, we must recognize that Strome can't remain and even cap aside we should just move on. Don't give a rat's rump if breadman prefers he stays; we need to push forward. Kravtsov is forward; Strome is staying in place in the short term, but is very shortly after falling backward. We are better off giving Strome mins to Chytil and Barron, Krav when he gets here and until then I would immediately give Pajuniemi mins to see if there is lightning in a bottle, while he gets experience.

In playoffs Rangers will need to roll w/Goodrow enforcing top line so Panarin not beat up.
Here is what line up should be post deal going into playoffs:

Goodrow - Zib - Panarin
Kreider - Chytil - Krav
LaF - Barron - Kakko
Hunt - Rooney - Reaves

Chychrun - Fox
KAM - Trouba
Nils L - Schneider

Shesty

This is so bad for Arizona! Not to mention none of your better prospects are included.

 

[bernmeister]

This is so bad for Arizona! Not to mention none of your better prospects are included.

"Not sure if serious..."?
Why so bad?
2 1sts.
Lindgren worth a 1st
Jones trending up.

we're dealing for Chychrun, not Bobby Orr.
Also, reported market price is what LA offered, and as I noted, this is WAY better than that.

 

[Pure Slaughter Value]

This is so bad for Arizona! Not to mention none of your better prospects are included.

Why would he include them, it's not like Chychrun is a top pairing defenseman that's had Norris votes, is the best player on the market, is young and on a steal of a contract?

Hmmmm.